GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[aussieblue]

I've seen so-called "full functioning" adults do the stupidest things when it comes to children. Y'all pretty much know how I stand on this case, but if there is a mental disability that this woman suffers from, then I don't see what putting her in jail is going to accomplish. I'd personally like for it to be legal that they prevent her from ever having any more children, but this is America.

Jeana it was only in 1942 that America changed its laws to STOP enforced sterilizations. Up until then many of your states laws required sterilization of those who had disabilities/behavioural probs. I believe it was your countries way of keeping a healthy gene population.

~aussieblue

 

[aussieblue]

Unfortunately, this seems to happen frequently here. The main goal is to keep the family together, (which is good). Oftentimes, however, I think that the social workers keep the children in the household and offer skills training simply because the system is so overburdened, there aren't enough foster families, and there are problems at least as big, (if not bigger), in the foster care system....

Agreeing again Jerseygirl BUT its not just there, here in australia we have the same prob too in some states. Ive read so many horror stories about your foster system and kids with disabilities NO WAY would i even let them look after my dog let alone my kids.
Career homes is what you need, professional and fulltime care, specialised support. Excellent results for the teens and young adults, they learn life skills and independant living skills.

Whether these parents were deemed negiligent in 2003 wasn't the original question to which I was responding. Apparently a news reporter must have asked, "Is there any history of abuse in the family?", to which LE probably simply answered "no". He wasn't lying or necessarily unaware of the negiligence ... there was no abuse. LE simply didn't elaborate on the presence of negligence. Maybe they didn't want the media to go crazy before the kids were found; maybe he was protecting the parents ...

Im a bit confused here as in that post i was posting to txsvicki as she stated .... this couple proved that they could not provide what child services considers a proper safe environment Which wasnt factual as DFCS stated in the media that there was no need to take the children away in their Opinion.

So what it comes down to is.... WAS DFCS right in their decision?????????

~aussieblue

 

[mainepotato]

How come posters can see the dangers BUT the DFCS didnt??????? ITS THEIR JOB to see dangers, Its their job to help with problem solving/guidance etc etc and if need be TO TAKE CONTROL OF A SITUATION.

Maybe they did see the dangers, and did advise the parents on how to take care of the problem. On NG a few nights ago, the dad said that he had purchased a chain lock and was planning to put it up the very evening that they died. For all we know, that could have been DFCS's idea. They could have told them, "You really need to put those chains up right away." They could have been telling them every week, and maybe the parents had been putting it off.

 

[aussieblue]

Maybe they did see the dangers, and did advise the parents on how to take care of the problem. On NG a few nights ago, the dad said that he had purchased a chain lock and was planning to put it up the very evening that they died. For all we know, that could have been DFCS's idea. They could have told them, "You really need to put those chains up right away." They could have been telling them every week, and maybe the parents had been putting it off.

Spot On mainepotato. I think we will hear that the DFCS probably did tell them to get a lock as they had visited the family only a few days before the drowning BUT when you say they could have been telling them for weeks and the parents just put it off, well thats where we part company

BECAUSE

IF they had been telling them for weeks and IF the parents had just kept putting it off the DFCS has a duty of care and they should have taken CONTROL of the SITUATION. Especially If they advised the parents because of concerns for security or safety for the children. Taking control would mean seeing themselves that the locks were fitted or anything alse that would be needed. DFCS has the power to do that and they should have done that if this went on for weeks. They also have the power of taking the kids away BUT they never did that either.

AND remember DFCS has been in reg contact with this family so they know them well.

~aussieblue

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana it was only in 1942 that America changed its laws to STOP enforced sterilizations. Up until then many of your states laws required sterilization of those who had disabilities/behavioural probs. I believe it was your countries way of keeping a healthy gene population.

~aussieblue

Yeah, well maybe someone can see about having that law changed back.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

As to why Kain and Payne are engaged but not married, it could be because of Georgia state law regarding people who are mentally retarded. I admit I don't know the current law standing but historically people with mental retardation have been often been legally prevented from marriage.

 

[aussieblue]

As to why Kain and Payne are engaged but not married, it could be because of Georgia state law regarding people who are mentally retarded. I admit I don't know the current law standing but historically people with mental retardation have been often been legally prevented from marriage.

OMG surely that cant be true in this day and age LP??????

Do you even have descrimination laws over there???????

 

[Jeana (DP)]

OMG surely that cant be true in this day and age LP??????

Do you even have descrimination laws over there???????

Hell no Aussie. America discriminates against everyone and it completely sucks here. That's why immigrants are actually willing to pile 50 people deep in a row boat and allow themselves to be locked up in tractor trailer trucks just to try and get here. We must be the lowest form of civilization, hey????

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Im a bit confused here as in that post i was posting to txsvicki as she stated .... this couple proved that they could not provide what child services considers a proper safe environment Which wasnt factual as DFCS stated in the media that there was no need to take the children away in their Opinion.

Actually, in the second part of my post, I was answering to a question earlier in the thread ... was just too lazy to separate them. Someone had mentioned that LE clearly stated that there was no history of abuse & no mention of a history of this family with DFCS. I was just trying to clarify that for a different post.

 

[Sheromom]

Hell no Aussie. America discriminates against everyone and it completely sucks here. That's why immigrants are actually willing to pile 50 people deep in a row boat and allow themselves to be locked up in tractor trailer trucks just to try and get here. We must be the lowest form of civilization, hey????

:clap: :clap: :clap: :laugh:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

AP Wire | 04/28/2005 | Grand jury could see toddler drowning case by July

"At some point in time, the results of the investigation will be aired in front of a grand jury, regardless of the results," Sanders said...

Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead said investigators are waiting until after the children's funeral - scheduled for Saturday - to resume interviews with the family.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

Jeana it was only in 1942 that America changed its laws to STOP enforced sterilizations. Up until then many of your states laws required sterilization of those who had disabilities/behavioural probs. I believe it was your countries way of keeping a healthy gene population.

~aussieblue

That is over 60 years ago.....I believe Germany was killing its population that it found undesirable at that time to keep a healthy gene population.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

As to why Kain and Payne are engaged but not married, it could be because of Georgia state law regarding people who are mentally retarded. I admit I don't know the current law standing but historically people with mental retardation have been often been legally prevented from marriage.

There is no state law not allowing the mentally disabled to marry....the fact is that many people simply do not marry. Has it been established that they are "mentally retarded"? Certainly if they are, they are functunally mentally retarded.

 

[CW]

I'm going to close this thread and start a part 2 due to being so long.

 

[CW]

Continue on.

 

[Nchadwickaz]

As a mother of 2 toddlers, I hate to place blame (unless clearly negligence) on the parents -- this was indeed an accident (no one took these children, mother didn't murder, etc)

My children are 13, 5, twins 4 -- We have been in our current home for 2.5 years (so my children were around 11, 3, twins 2). We live in Arizona and the previous home had a pool (with all the safety procedures) and one of the most important things when looking for a new home was NO POOL. Due to the fact that I knew even as young as the toddlers were that they conspire together to get into mischeif (and I did not want the fear of them somehow getting into the backyard).

Well, we had only been in the house for 6 months and I was doing laudry, while my oldest was in her room reading. The toy room was set up as "baby jail" with baby gates at both doorways. I was putting away clothes in my room (which faces the back yard) and I could hear the girls like they were in MY ROOM! So as I am looking around I see one of their faces in my window and waving.

Alarmed, I stood at the "baby jail" in disbelief -- they had managed to clear the books of the "cheap" bookshelf -- and turned it over so they were able to get over and unlatch the baby gate. Now the sliding glass door has a top baby latch and a metal bar in the track -- not to mention being locked. From watching us, I assume, they knew to take the metal bar out and the chairs from the dining room table were moved to the kitchen counter -- where the latch was undone and the door wide open.

One of my twins, has since birth, been the "ring leader" as the little girl in this story was described and I when I heard that I could so relate -- I have always theorized that when you have kids that are this close -- ideas, mischief, etc that one may not have thought of -- believe me 2 or 3 will.

I thank GOD everyday that this happened AFTER our move -- I don't want to think about what could have happened -- and I am a great mother, who protects and loves her children -- but that would probably not be what the public perception would be of me.

This was a horrible, terrible accident -- I pray to God this wasn't the due to the neglect of a mother -- but an accident nonetheless..

 

[SewingDeb]

As a mother of 2 toddlers, I hate to place blame (unless clearly negligence) on the parents -- this was indeed an accident (no one took these children, mother didn't murder, etc)

My children are 13, 5, twins 4 -- We have been in our current home for 2.5 years (so my children were around 11, 3, twins 2). We live in Arizona and the previous home had a pool (with all the safety procedures) and one of the most important things when looking for a new home was NO POOL. Due to the fact that I knew even as young as the toddlers were that they conspire together to get into mischeif (and I did not want the fear of them somehow getting into the backyard).

Well, we had only been in the house for 6 months and I was doing laudry, while my oldest was in her room reading. The toy room was set up as "baby jail" with baby gates at both doorways. I was putting away clothes in my room (which faces the back yard) and I could hear the girls like they were in MY ROOM! So as I am looking around I see one of their faces in my window and waving.

Alarmed, I stood at the "baby jail" in disbelief -- they had managed to clear the books of the "cheap" bookshelf -- and turned it over so they were able to get over and unlatch the baby gate. Now the sliding glass door has a top baby latch and a metal bar in the track -- not to mention being locked. From watching us, I assume, they knew to take the metal bar out and the chairs from the dining room table were moved to the kitchen counter -- where the latch was undone and the door wide open.

One of my twins, has since birth, been the "ring leader" as the little girl in this story was described and I when I heard that I could so relate -- I have always theorized that when you have kids that are this close -- ideas, mischief, etc that one may not have thought of -- believe me 2 or 3 will.

I thank GOD everyday that this happened AFTER our move -- I don't want to think about what could have happened -- and I am a great mother, who protects and loves her children -- but that would probably not be what the public perception would be of me.

This was a horrible, terrible accident -- I pray to God this wasn't the due to the neglect of a mother -- but an accident nonetheless..

I am so glad your story had a happy ending. Toddlers are just too smart. I'll bet they were really proud of themselves for figuring out how to get outside...lol. When my youngest was a toddler, I had to put an alarm stick in the sliding glass door after he learned how to climb over the child safety gate and unlock the door. Even with the extremely loud alarm screech each time, he wouldn't give up. He loved the outdoors....now that he's eleven you can't get him to go out.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

This was a horrible, terrible accident -- I pray to God this wasn't the due to the neglect of a mother -- but an accident nonetheless..

This WAS neglect on the part of the mother. Apparently childrens' services had been scheduled to make weekly visits to this family for two years in an effort to teach her how to be a proper mother (i.e., proper feeding, hygene, cleaning the home, and being sure she knew where the kids were.

There may have been some mental defect that contributed to her improper care of the children, but it was neglect nonetheless.

 

[[email protected]]

This WAS neglect on the part of the mother. Apparently childrens' services had been scheduled to make weekly visits to this family for two years in an effort to teach her how to be a proper mother (i.e., proper feeding, hygene, cleaning the home, and being sure she knew where the kids were.

There may have been some mental defect that contributed to her improper care of the children, but it was neglect nonetheless.

I had not heard this before. I wish I could say I was shocked, but I'm not. Do you know where I might find some more info on this??

Thanks.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I had not heard this before. I wish I could say I was shocked, but I'm not. Do you know where I might find some more info on this??

Thanks.

There were some links (I believe on the first thread) and other things I heard on dif television programs about the case.