GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

[mck16]

Still no statement from Canton Police Chief , as to why he was not present at the search? The only statement I have is from a reporter who asked the question, and the answer wasn't given. GBI did what needed to be done, but I'm wondering if Canton's Sheriff ever gave a feasible reason, considering the enormity of this murder.

What is the significance of him not being there? Is it customary for the chief to be present. I am just asking because I don't know. Thanks.

 

[tlcya]

I understand what you are saying and I agree, but other than background information and maybe further charges, that really doesn't have anything to do with the case at hand. I mean they could go ahead and charge him and indict him witout that information if they have anough evidense. His past crimes if any, can not be brought into court on this case. It wil be nice to find out about his past, but why can't they go ahead and proceed with this one? This is puzzling me. jmo

I don't think it is a matter of not being able to go ahead without historical evidence or anecdotal evidence of past behaviors. I do think they want to go into prosecution armed with it. Because of the horrific nature of this crime I think they may want to go in with as much as possible illustrating that RB's acts were calculated. His history may hold behaviors which bolster the premise that this crime was something he was headed toward and perhaps could refute a possible defense argument that RB temporarily insane or snapped or some such thing.

Who knows, I am just throwing carp at the wall hoping it sticks, I am certainly no LEO or detective (except for the armchair variety in a room full of other armchairs, lol).

 

[tlcya]

What is the significance of him not being there? Is it customary for the chief to be present. I am just asking because I don't know. Thanks.

The significance is that Sheriff Garrison finds it significant. Given Sheriff Garrison is probably aware of exactly what other calls were going on at the time when Jorelys was missing and assuming that there were no ongoing active investigations which were of a higher importance, why wouldn't the Chief be there directing the investigation?

Sheriff Garrison's concerns during that first two days when the Chief of Police was not there onscene seem to be centered on the fact that the scene was chaos and not well run and that no one was debriefing those involved. With the Sheriff stating those concerns, where exactly the Chief was and what could have been of more importance become a question that would seem to need both asked and answered.

MOO, Sheriff Garrison is hopping mad that his officers were not debriefed and the crime scene went undetected as a result. Once the Sheriff went over the Chief's head and called in GBI, the Sheriff's own deputies then ended up looking bad and their shortcomings made the Sheriff's department look bad as well as the Canton PD.

 

[stilettos]

Still no statement from Canton Police Chief , as to why he was not present at the search? The only statement I have is from a reporter who asked the question, and the answer wasn't given. GBI did what needed to be done, but I'm wondering if Canton's Sheriff ever gave a feasible reason, considering the enormity of this murder.

MOO. I don't think we will ever get one. I applaud Sherriff Garrison for his integrity and handling of this matter and look forward to th eopening of an investigation into the Chief's handling of the case. IMO, it was inept.

 

[Magdalyn]

I understand what you are saying and I agree, but other than background information and maybe further charges, that really doesn't have anything to do with the case at hand. I mean they could go ahead and charge him and indict him witout that information if they have anough evidense. His past crimes if any, can not be brought into court on this case. It wil be nice to find out about his past, but why can't they go ahead and proceed with this one? This is puzzling me. jmo

I don't think the 'several months' comment was regarding how long it will take for an indictment. I think it was a general, "Considering the amount and varying types of evidence we've found, the nature of the crime, and the planning that had to have gone behind it, investigating every aspect of all that is Ryan Brunn, pre trial, will take several months."

On the other side of the coin, as LE and the state of Georgia has Ryan Brunn legally off the streets and behind bars already, with the blessings of a judge, there is absolutely no rush to throw an indictment together. Keep in mind, many times, you see that there is a secret (or not so secret) grand jury meeting, an indictment, THEN an arrest to get the perp off the streets, finally. This perp is off the streets. Breathing room for LE and the DA.

Moo!

 

[Capri]

Forgive if this has been previously posted:
http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/deputy-receives-punishment-for-mistake-in-jorelys-rivera-search

The Cherokee County Sheriff's deputy who failed to report the sight of blood in a vacant apartment where 7-year-old Jorelys Rivera is believed to have been killed has lost his spot in the agency's field training program and the incentive pay that came along with it, Sheriff Roger Garrison said at a press conference this afternoon.

The deputy, a 3-year veteran who was not identified, also received a 36-hour suspension that will only be enforced if he has other infractions over the next 12 months. He must undergo additional training in "crime scene processing and child victim investigations fundamentals," Garrison said.

And the trainee:
Originally, Garrison said that both officials would be disciplined. This morning, an agency spokesman said the trainee would not be punished.

 

[Capri]

What is the significance of him not being there? Is it customary for the chief to be present. I am just asking because I don't know. Thanks.

It's significant due to the small size of the police dept. there.
"The Canton Police Department has nearly 50 employees, of which 28 are sworn road officers. The city has only recorded two murders since 1990, Chief Jeff Lance said. The major issue here is auto break-ins."

http://canton-ga.patch.com/listings/city-of-canton-police-department

 

[stilettos]

Forgive if this has been previously posted:
http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/deputy-receives-punishment-for-mistake-in-jorelys-rivera-search

The Cherokee County Sheriff's deputy who failed to report the sight of blood in a vacant apartment where 7-year-old Jorelys Rivera is believed to have been killed has lost his spot in the agency's field training program and the incentive pay that came along with it, Sheriff Roger Garrison said at a press conference this afternoon.

The deputy, a 3-year veteran who was not identified, also received a 36-hour suspension that will only be enforced if he has other infractions over the next 12 months. He must undergo additional training in "crime scene processing and child victim investigations fundamentals," Garrison said.

And the trainee:
Originally, Garrison said that both officials would be disciplined. This morning, an agency spokesman said the trainee would not be punished.

That is understandable because he was still "in training" and the senior officer there would be accountable,

 

[bunky]

Oh am so hoping for DNA from the sexual assault so that there is no doubt they have the right suspect, or not. (I believe they do...but DNA would be a great benefit.)

I think they have DNA, just my opinion of course.

 

[tlcya]

During this time while no new/fresh news/facts are forthcoming, and the threads dwindle down to a few comments per day (frustrating), I like to begin researching forensics and such that I suspect may come into play at trial. Once trial comes around the threads will be flying and many questions will arise regarding the more technical aspects of the investigation. So now, during the lull, is when I start researching various areas that may come into play later down the road. I find it helps me pass the time.

 

[ClaireNC]

I also suspect that they have at least preliminary DNA results that match RB, but assume that there are more tests that have not yet been completed. Don't tox screenings often take months to come back?

 

[bunky]

This punk is one of the most vile pedophiles I've ever heard about. Say he planned the kidnapping, the rape, the murder, the disposal of the body and THEN WENT TO THE HOME AND ASKED FOR HER PICTURES. :furious::furious:

I SORTA KINDA hope someone serves him some vigilante justice.

 

[bunky]

I don't think it is a matter of not being able to go ahead without historical evidence or anecdotal evidence of past behaviors. I do think they want to go into prosecution armed with it. Because of the horrific nature of this crime I think they may want to go in with as much as possible illustrating that RB's acts were calculated. His history may hold behaviors which bolster the premise that this crime was something he was headed toward and perhaps could refute a possible defense argument that RB temporarily insane or snapped or some such thing.

Who knows, I am just throwing carp at the wall hoping it sticks, I am certainly no LEO or detective (except for the armchair variety in a room full of other armchairs, lol).

Boy do I ever agree. This horrible crime needs all evidence against the perp gathered and closely protected until time of the trial.

 

[officer'swife 2010]

bbm
I hope the evidence agrees ! (cart before the horse, IMHO)

You are right. IMO I just get this gut feeling about him and hearing the tip that was reported about him makes me cringe. But I also believed Casey was guilty and we all know how that went. Guess we shall see. Police aren't revealing any evidence but there's a reason they arrested Brunn IMO.

 

[sherbetjello]

I would just assume that those people living in the apartment complex would want to know of a DNA match, or something binding RB to the crime, to FEEL safer. I know that trust and security in this group must be shattered, why not offer that bit of condolence?

I don't think that's asking that much. I don't want the details, just the proof.
Worries me that they aren't doing that, which leads me to believe they might not have it - then add the 2 months to get it for Grand Jury.

Maybe just me though.

 

[Capri]

I would just assume that those people living in the apartment complex would want to know of a DNA match, or something binding RB to the crime, to FEEL safer. I know that trust and security in this group must be shattered, why not offer that bit of condolence?

I don't think that's asking that much. I don't want the details, just the proof.
Worries me that they aren't doing that, which leads me to believe they might not have it - then add the 2 months to get it for Grand Jury.

Maybe just me though.

I'm sure they would, sure would make them all rest a little easier, but I think the most LE will say, is that he's definitely linked, not much more than that. The fact that GA's GBI lab can turn around a DNA match in as little as 24-48 hours makes me think it's a DNA match, or matches. He was too sloppy (thank goodness), blood dripped on floor, moving the body, etc, all indicates sloppy, and possibly improvising a bit when things may not have gone exactly as planned., IMHO, of course.

 

[Backwoods]

I don't think they will be releasing any more details regarding the crime scene or anything they find out about RB before the indictment. MOO.

respectfully snipped you (in a major way), just to focus in on that one comment!

Before the case goes to the grand jury, I do think he may have what is called, in Georgia, a commitment hearing. If so, it will likely be open to the public and some evidence, perhaps beyond what we know already, will be presented. Also, the defense will have an opportunity to cross-examine the state's witness(es) on whatever evidence the state presents, so some new things may be learned from that (the defense will be hoping so).

ETA: Here's a link with some info that might be helpful about a commitment hearing in Georgia. (It is written from a defense point of view, but contains helpful info about what can transpire):

http://www.georgiadefenders.com/preliminaryhearing.purpose.htm

 

[Hickory Born]

I think the DA will present ALL charges at the same time to the GJ and he must have ALL evidence completed and intact to back up these charges (which I think will be many)...that takes time.

I don't think the DA will present just murder & kidnapping and then later on tack on other charges.

 

[marazul]

General legal question: when someone is charged with murder and arrested, before the indictment, if this person claims they are not guilty and claims there can be no evidence and they tell this to their attorney, and there is no bond set, does LE or the DA or anyone have to prove to anybody that they have enough evidence to detain them? I know this must sound like such a rookie question, but for example, if I was arrested for murder and told that there is 'evidence against me' and taken to jail, assigned a public defender, and am waiting for arraignment, do I have a right to know what makes them think I am a murderer? Can they just tell me, "we have gathered some evidence and tips, and are confident you are the murderer but you will not learn any more until your formal indictment which may be a month or two away." What if I was truly innocent and didn't know what was going on?

I do not feel that Brunn is innocent, what I am wondering is, does at least his legal team know the nature of the evidence, or does only the judge know?

My feeling is they must have DNA. He doesn't seem like a sophisticated criminal, the closeness of the crime scene/disposal site and blood being found shows some messiness, so I assume some DNA was found, either hers on him, his on hers, both in the crime scene..and the DNA must match because if it didn't, we would be hearing of the search for the match..by now, they must have at least a preliminary match, this is a big case, i am sure they were in a hurry to make sure they have the right guy, so I am convinced there was a match, but I am curious about who officially KNOWS this...just LE and the judge?

 

[Backwoods]

General legal question: when someone is charged with murder and arrested, before the indictment, if this person claims they are not guilty and claims there can be no evidence and they tell this to their attorney, and there is no bond set, does LE or the DA or anyone have to prove to anybody that they have enough evidence to detain them? I know this must sound like such a rookie question, but for example, if I was arrested for murder and told that there is 'evidence against me' and taken to jail, assigned a public defender, and am waiting for arraignment, do I have a right to know what makes them think I am a murderer? Can they just tell me, "we have gathered some evidence and tips, and are confident you are the murderer but you will not learn any more until your formal indictment which may be a month or two away." What if I was truly innocent and didn't know what was going on?

I do not feel that Brunn is innocent, what I am wondering is, does at least his legal team know the nature of the evidence, or does only the judge know?

My feeling is they must have DNA. He doesn't seem like a sophisticated criminal, the closeness of the crime scene/disposal site and blood being found shows some messiness, so I assume some DNA was found, either hers on him, his on hers, both in the crime scene..and the DNA must match because if it didn't, we would be hearing of the search for the match..by now, they must have at least a preliminary match, this is a big case, i am sure they were in a hurry to make sure they have the right guy, so I am convinced there was a match, but I am curious about who officially KNOWS this...just LE and the judge?

bbm: I'm no lawyer, but FWIW: I think there are one or two points, usually, at which "probable cause" may have to be "proved" to a judge -- one possibility being the commitment hearing (which I think can be waived by the defendant, not sure) as mentioned in my post just a post or two above. IMO, generally to prove "probable cause" does not require that great heaps of the evidence be revealed.