GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #2

[iSleuth]

IMO, it doesn't matter what training a person receives, when you see a persons feet upside down in a mat, what kind of person would not try and free that individual and check for signs of life?

What would people be saying had he just done nothing or had EMT's done nothing to determine life?

I wasn't referring to training one receives at all .. Just how things happen in a school emergency . The chain of command if you will . Of course EMT save and treat. And teachers anyone on scene free individual. Also any school nurse or gym teacher would be able specifically licensed to administer some emergency measures also.
In reference to another post which questions inconsistencies .
Cleaning blood
Storing mats in dangerous positions
Letting students play on gym equipment unsupervised
Video surveillance which didn't function to protect its unsupervised minors in athletic facilities
Letting unknown students into the school after hours
Not contacting proper authorities before compromising the scene of the accident
Not securing the crime scene
Not allowing coroner to inspect scene in a timely manner before the accident site was contaminated
LE or funeral home Losing victims personal items and affects
LE or funeral home - Losing organs

Please feel free to add to this list .




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[Tawny]

Those aren't inconsistencies, they're just failures on the part of various organizations. That doesn't mean there is a cover up to murder. It just means some people suck at their jobs, at worst. JMO.

 

[iSleuth]

Those aren't inconsistencies, they're just failures on the part of various organizations. That doesn't mean there is a cover up to murder. It just means some people suck at their jobs, at worst. JMO.

Exactly various aspects of the people and organizations failed to do their jobs consistently. I haven't really said anything about a cover up necessarily.




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[iSleuth]

Okay. Then I guess I still don't understand the parts of your post about the coroner's comment about inquests or the quotes about the ME from the Code?

The codes state clearly the coroners role at any unattended death and at a crime scene and what forensic training required . I guess coroners need forensic training and deserve at least the respect given to them by their elected roles as public servants- I guess that must be why the coroner had some issues with aspects of this case and the entire situation .
jMO

jmo

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[Karmady]

The codes state clearly the coroners role at any unattended death and at a crime scene and what forensic training required . I guess coroners need forensic training and deserve at least the respect given to them by their elected roles as public servants- I guess that must be why the coroner had some issues with aspects of this case and the entire situation .
jMO

~bbn

Can you please cut and paste that part here? I must be blind because I see one reference to the coroner in that entire quoted section and it doesn't say anything like that.

jmo

 

[Reader]

IMO, the circumstances vary according to jurisdiction and case specifics. My uncle's clothing was never returned to us. He was so badly decomposed that I imagine they were in terrible condition and were discarded. Only his valuables (wallet, keys, etc.) were returned to us.

That is likely what happened but since the parents asked about the clothes and the reports say they were released to the transport person who delivered them to the funeral home, which denies receiving them, why won't someone in authority, LE or GBI, explain to them what happened? This just shows to me the disregard for the concerns and feelings of the parents, which is really a large part of the problem. They deserve truthful answers to these questions about their son's death.

OK, but I thought the next class was in full swing in the gym by 1:50 or so.

Whenever the next class began, this has been one of my concerns. The school knew Kendrick was there for the first 3 blocks, and the teacher in the next class knew (surely) he was not present then. Why didn't the school report his absence for the rest of the day to his parents. His mother, thinking he completed the school day and was attending a game later, did not realize he was missing until around 9:30pm, and went looking for him and made calls asking about him. If someone at the school had noticed and reported Kendrick missing in that 4th block he might have been located and saved. This is one of the reasons, I think, the father says 'they killed my son'. This death happened where they believed their son was safe and they do not feel how it happened has been adequately explained. The father knows his son and does not believe he would have gone into the mat as said.

I wasn't referring to training one receives at all .. Just how things happen in a school emergency . The chain of command if you will . Of course EMT save and treat. And teachers anyone on scene free individual. Also any school nurse or gym teacher would be able specifically licensed to administer some emergency measures also.
In reference to another post which questions inconsistencies .
Cleaning blood
Storing mats in dangerous positions
Letting students play on gym equipment unsupervised
Video surveillance which didn't function to protect its unsupervised minors in athletic facilities
Letting unknown students into the school after hours
Not contacting proper authorities before compromising the scene of the accident
Not securing the crime scene
Not allowing coroner to inspect scene in a timely manner before the accident site was contaminated
LE or funeral home Losing victims personal items and affects
LE or funeral home - Losing organs

Please feel free to add to this list .
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Good list. And they are more than just not doing a job correctly because they are part of a death investigation. These discrepancies are therefore, or should be, explained by that investigation and have not been. This makes the conclusion in question to me if all of these inconsistencies are not explained, especially to the parents.

I would add the sheriff's jumping to a quick conclusion and declaring the death an accident and declaring the case closed and not allowing any questions about his investigation to be asked by the family or their attorney. This was done that very afternoon before the autopsy was even completed. Why the rush? Why not explain to the family how and why he reached his conclusion?

Why not let the parents see the reports and videos? Why make the father wait until Sunday to view the body and why did he find it in a 'warm' condition? Why were the parents not told in advance about the organs being removed and the reason. The sheriff's entire attitude toward the parents was antagonistic to me and this leads me to believe he does not want to be open with his investigation for some reason. He created this situation AFAIC. Any parent who cannot get answers to their satisfaction about how their son died in school in the middle of the day when they thought he would be home that night would do the same as they have. IMO

 

[Sherp]

I wasn't referring to training one receives at all .. Just how things happen in a school emergency . The chain of command if you will . Of course EMT save and treat. And teachers anyone on scene free individual. Also any school nurse or gym teacher would be able specifically licensed to administer some emergency measures also.
In reference to another post which questions inconsistencies .
Cleaning blood
Storing mats in dangerous positions. Is there a protocol?
Letting students play on gym equipment unsupervised
Video surveillance which didn't function to protect its unsupervised minors in athletic facilities
Letting unknown students into the school after hours
Not contacting proper authorities before compromising the scene of the accident
Not securing the crime scene
Not allowing coroner to inspect scene in a timely manner before the accident site was contaminated
LE or funeral home Losing victims personal items and affects
LE or funeral home - Losing organs

Please feel free to add to this list .




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Swabs from the blood on the wall was taken by GBI at the scene.
I don't know about storing mats in a dangerous position.
Should the school been responsible for supervising students walking on the mats?
All the cameras worked on motion detectors. What's the complaint?
Who or what about unknown students in school after hours?
Neither GBI or Local Sheriff's office contaminated the scene but collected evidence and investigated the scene. The Coroner is a nobody in the investigation as he readily admitted that he was neither a Doctor nor had LE training, but an elected official.
The scene was not contaminated but investigated by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation who were on scene almost immediately and samples collected by their technicians.
After 22 hours of a decomposing body, the Funeral Home discarded his cloths.
GBI did not return the decomposing organs but did save organ slides for exam.
There was no quick conclusion reached by the investigating GBI or Sheriff's Office. A conclusion was announced after 4 months of investigating the tragedy.

 

[Tawny]

Thank you, Sherp.

 

[Yoda]

Okay. I do find it weird that two of the gym videos are missing an hour and two other are missing two hours.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/justice/kendrick-johnson-surveillance-videos/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[iSleuth]

~bbn

Can you please cut and paste that part here? I must be blind because I see one reference to the coroner in that entire quoted section and it doesn't say anything like that.

jmo

The document is longer than I quoted from originally and is now snipped as well.

§ 45-16-6. Training course

During every calendar year they are in office, every coroner and deputy coroner shall be required, as a condition of continuing to serve as coroner, to take a training course approved by the Georgia Coroner’s Training Council pursuant to Code Section 45-16-66. Any coroner or deputy coroner taking the approved training course provided by the Georgia Police Academy shall receive the same expense allowance per day as that received by a member of the General Assembly, plus reimbursement of actual transportation costs while traveling by public carrier or the legal mileage rate for the use of a personal automobile and registration fees for such training course. Such expense allowance and reimbursements shall be paid by the county governing authority from county funds. In the event, however, that a coroner or deputy is prevented in any calendar year from taking such training by sickness or other providential cause, the requirement of training for that year may be waived by the Georgia Coroner’s Training Council.------
§ 45-16-22. Duties of director of division

(a) The director of the division is authorized and directed to cooperate with and assist the peace officers in charge, medical examiners, and coroners of the state in making the facilities of the division available for the performing of medical examiners’ inquiries on dead bodies as required by this article.

(b) The county governing authority shall after consulting with the coroner, if any, be authorized to appoint one or more local medical examiners who shall be licensed physicians or pathologists. The chief medical examiner may, at the request of a county governing authority, authorize one or more licensed physicians or pathologists at convenient locations throughout the state to act as local medical examiners in performing medical examiners’ inquiries as required by this article. The chief medical examiner shall confer with local county officials in making appointments of regional and local medical examiners. Any regional or local medical examiner appointed by the chief medical examiner shall have such jurisdiction within this state as designated by the chief medical examiner.

(c) Except as otherwise provided in this article, it shall be in the sole discretion of the medical examiner to determine whether or not an autopsy or limited dissection is required; provided, however, that the medical examiner shall give due consideration to the opinions of the coroner and the peace officer in charge regarding the requirements of accepted investigation techniques and the rules of evidence applicable thereto.


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[iSleuth]

Swabs from the blood on the wall was taken by GBI at the scene.

Yes LE is quoted as saying that it is old blood. Yet school says gym was cleaned and everything was in that position because vacation and it was cleaned . And maybe it wasn't and maybe the mats the day Kj died weren't ' in any different position after all.

I don't know about storing mats in a dangerous position.
Umm if a student dies in a mat that 's a dangerous position?
Should the school been responsible for supervising students walking on the mats?
Yes .

All the cameras worked on motion detectors. What's the complaint?
Except the ones that would help the investigations it seems. If we took a sample today in the gym would they show more. Less ? Would there be gaps ? Wouldn't 'tshoukdn 't cameras really show the entire facility ? Why have them?

Who or what about unknown students in school after hours?
There is an official statement that a person entered the old gym after the color guard teacher left. Could that person be innocent of course. Could that person have been able to xyz. Tamper with scene ? Tapes ? Or who knows whatever many many things someone could take from a school at night. At one college I taught at a giant screen TV was stolen at night.

Neither GBI or Local Sheriff's office contaminated the scene but collected evidence and investigated the scene.
Except there are objects and questions we have about things not in evidence ?

The Coroner is a nobody in the investigation as he readily admitted that he was neither a Doctor nor had LE training, but an elected official.

The scene was not contaminated but investigated by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation who were on scene almost immediately and samples collected by their technicians.

After 22 hours of a decomposing body, the Funeral Home discarded his cloths.
GBI did not return the decomposing organs but did save organ slides for exam.

Again of they always do that or is it another coincidence or inconsistent protocol .

There was no quick conclusion reached by the investigating GBI or Sheriff's Office. A conclusion was announced after 4 months of investigating the tragedy.

My opinions are within quoted section above but ...anyQuick conclusion by LE wasn't on my list.




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[Karmady]

Okay. I do find it weird that two of the gym videos are missing an hour and two other are missing two hours.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/justice/kendrick-johnson-surveillance-videos/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Read the article carefully, Yoda. As I said about the moving of the body and the clothing. There's moved and MOVED and there's disposed of and LOST. In the case of this article there's missing and MISSING. Not to mention that I question the serious doublespeak of an expert hired by CNN. I can't remember which msm hired the audio experts in Crump's most recent similar high profile case, but we saw how that panned out. Debunked beyond all recognition. Imo, this is all part of the same blueprint. jmo

 

[Karmady]

The document is longer than I quoted from originally and is now snipped as well.

§ 45-16-6. Training course

During every calendar year they are in office, every coroner and deputy coroner shall be required, as a condition of continuing to serve as coroner, to take a training course approved by the Georgia Coroner’s Training Council pursuant to Code Section 45-16-66. Any coroner or deputy coroner taking the approved training course provided by the Georgia Police Academy shall receive the same expense allowance per day as that received by a member of the General Assembly, plus reimbursement of actual transportation costs while traveling by public carrier or the legal mileage rate for the use of a personal automobile and registration fees for such training course. Such expense allowance and reimbursements shall be paid by the county governing authority from county funds. In the event, however, that a coroner or deputy is prevented in any calendar year from taking such training by sickness or other providential cause, the requirement of training for that year may be waived by the Georgia Coroner’s Training Council.------
§ 45-16-22. Duties of director of division

(a) The director of the division is authorized and directed to cooperate with and assist the peace officers in charge, medical examiners, and coroners of the state in making the facilities of the division available for the performing of medical examiners’ inquiries on dead bodies as required by this article.

(b) The county governing authority shall after consulting with the coroner, if any, be authorized to appoint one or more local medical examiners who shall be licensed physicians or pathologists. The chief medical examiner may, at the request of a county governing authority, authorize one or more licensed physicians or pathologists at convenient locations throughout the state to act as local medical examiners in performing medical examiners’ inquiries as required by this article. The chief medical examiner shall confer with local county officials in making appointments of regional and local medical examiners. Any regional or local medical examiner appointed by the chief medical examiner shall have such jurisdiction within this state as designated by the chief medical examiner.

(c) Except as otherwise provided in this article, it shall be in the sole discretion of the medical examiner to determine whether or not an autopsy or limited dissection is required; provided, however, that the medical examiner shall give due consideration to the opinions of the coroner and the peace officer in charge regarding the requirements of accepted investigation techniques and the rules of evidence applicable thereto.


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The approved training courses cover all types of things. Like eye donation, computer skills, etc. A non-md coroner isn't required to have forensic training and, even if he gets some, he can't use it because his role in the process is not only extremely limited but only exists to the extent he's the only person on the scene. If there's other qualified medical or LE on the scene, including police officers, EMT's, Md's or ME's, they are in charge. It's all in the regs at your link.

It's kind of like continuing legal education. A criminal trial attorney can satisfy their CLE requirements by taking courses on family law, or whatever. Totally irrelevant to their practice, but the State makes money so it's all good.

jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

No, it just shows that the time stamps on the entire video are off by about 20minutes. Relative time stays the same. He didn't enter the gym at 1:09, he entered close to 1:30. And things shown on the video at 1:30, actually happened at 1:50 or so.

Thank you. I got confused on the timeline. I wish one of those Websleuthers who make excellent timelines would do so on this case.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I just noticed what seems to me a discrepancy in thinking surrounding this case.

There's this view:

The coroner's complaint about the body being moved is moot; of course the body was moved, the teachers and/or EMTs had to pull KJ out of the mat to see if he could be saved.

Then there's this view:

There's no mystery about why the coroner wasn't called immediately per protocol, the smell of decomp was a clear indication KJ was quite dead already.

 

[pearl]

That is likely what happened but since the parents asked about the clothes and the reports say they were released to the transport person who delivered them to the funeral home, which denies receiving them, why won't someone in authority, LE or GBI, explain to them what happened? This just shows to me the disregard for the concerns and feelings of the parents, which is really a large part of the problem. They deserve truthful answers to these questions about their son's death.



Whenever the next class began, this has been one of my concerns. The school knew Kendrick was there for the first 3 blocks, and the teacher in the next class knew (surely) he was not present then. Why didn't the school report his absence for the rest of the day to his parents. His mother, thinking he completed the school day and was attending a game later, did not realize he was missing until around 9:30pm, and went looking for him and made calls asking about him. If someone at the school had noticed and reported Kendrick missing in that 4th block he might have been located and saved. This is one of the reasons, I think, the father says 'they killed my son'. This death happened where they believed their son was safe and they do not feel how it happened has been adequately explained. The father knows his son and does not believe he would have gone into the mat as said.

snipped for brevity and bbm

Here is a crash course on education in the state of GA. I retired last May after 31 years as a GA teacher. Due to budget cuts, etc, class sizes in GA usually average 28-30 students in the middle grades and high school. A waiver can be given by the state BOE that will allow some districts to exceed the student teacher ratio set by the state BOE for various hardship issues. A high school teacher in GA probably has about 110-120 students a day sit in his/her classroom. Per state mandate, attendance is taken and reported using one of the approved web based programs. My system used Infinite Campus. Attendance is taken every class period and absences reported electronically via the network to a central server in each school. The server in each school is linked to the school district's office to a server there. This school district server is linked to the GA Dept. of Education in Atlanta. A teacher will probably see a particular student for one class period a day. As a teacher, I would not be aware if one of my students missed a later class. Some systems use an automated calling service to notify parents of a student's absence. Some systems do not. If the service is used, the calls are usually made after the school day ends. Students have been known to block the school's number from their home phones.

 

[Karmady]

That is likely what happened but since the parents asked about the clothes and the reports say they were released to the transport person who delivered them to the funeral home, which denies receiving them, why won't someone in authority, LE or GBI, explain to them what happened? This just shows to me the disregard for the concerns and feelings of the parents, which is really a large part of the problem. They deserve truthful answers to these questions about their son's death.



Whenever the next class began, this has been one of my concerns. The school knew Kendrick was there for the first 3 blocks, and the teacher in the next class knew (surely) he was not present then. Why didn't the school report his absence for the rest of the day to his parents. His mother, thinking he completed the school day and was attending a game later, did not realize he was missing until around 9:30pm, and went looking for him and made calls asking about him. If someone at the school had noticed and reported Kendrick missing in that 4th block he might have been located and saved. This is one of the reasons, I think, the father says 'they killed my son'. This death happened where they believed their son was safe and they do not feel how it happened has been adequately explained. The father knows his son and does not believe he would have gone into the mat as said.

snipped for brevity and bbm

Here is a crash course on education in the state of GA. I retired last May after 31 years as a GA teacher. Due to budget cuts, etc, class sizes in GA usually average 28-30 students in the middle grades and high school. A waiver can be given by the state BOE that will allow some districts to exceed the student teacher ratio set by the state BOE for various hardship issues. A high school teacher in GA probably has about 110-120 students a day sit in his/her classroom. Per state mandate, attendance is taken and reported using one of the approved web based programs. My system used Infinite Campus. Attendance is taken every class period and absences reported electronically via the network to a central server in each school. The server in each school is linked to the school district's office to a server there. This school district server is linked to the GA Dept. of Education in Atlanta. A teacher will probably see a particular student for one class period a day. As a teacher, I would not be aware if one of my students missed a later class. Some systems use an automated calling service to notify parents of a student's absence. Some systems do not. If the service is used, the calls are usually made after the school day ends. Students have been known to block the school's number from their home phones.

Just jumping of your post to respond to another issue in the OP. The GBI did respond about the clothing saying they didn't know what happened to it (link upthread). They wouldn't know about it, nor would LE. It was delivered to GBI with the body (as in still ON the body) and given to the body courier who took the body to the funeral home. LE wouldn't have any contact with the clothing once it left the scene, and GBI had no contact with the clothing once it left GBI via the courier. Claiming that either LE or GBI could or should know what happened to the clothing and haven't been forthcoming is just another deliberate mischaracterization of the facts designed to appeal to emotions. I will never get how people fall for that type of obvious ploy time after time. smdh jmo

 

[iSleuth]

That is likely what happened but since the parents asked about the clothes and the reports say they were released to the transport person who delivered them to the funeral home, which denies receiving them, why won't someone in authority, LE or GBI, explain to them what happened? This just shows to me the disregard for the concerns and feelings of the parents, which is really a large part of the problem. They deserve truthful answers to these questions about their son's death.



Whenever the next class began, this has been one of my concerns. The school knew Kendrick was there for the first 3 blocks, and the teacher in the next class knew (surely) he was not present then. Why didn't the school report his absence for the rest of the day to his parents. His mother, thinking he completed the school day and was attending a game later, did not realize he was missing until around 9:30pm, and went looking for him and made calls asking about him. If someone at the school had noticed and reported Kendrick missing in that 4th block he might have been located and saved. This is one of the reasons, I think, the father says 'they killed my son'. This death happened where they believed their son was safe and they do not feel how it happened has been adequately explained. The father knows his son and does not believe he would have gone into the mat as said.

snipped for brevity and bbm

Here is a crash course on education in the state of GA. I retired last May after 31 years as a GA teacher. Due to budget cuts, etc, class sizes in GA usually average 28-30 students in the middle grades and high school. A waiver can be given by the state BOE that will allow some districts to exceed the student teacher ratio set by the state BOE for various hardship issues. A high school teacher in GA probably has about 110-120 students a day sit in his/her classroom. Per state mandate, attendance is taken and reported using one of the approved web based programs. My system used Infinite Campus. Attendance is taken every class period and absences reported electronically via the network to a central server in each school. The server in each school is linked to the school district's office to a server there. This school district server is linked to the GA Dept. of Education in Atlanta. A teacher will probably see a particular student for one class period a day. As a teacher, I would not be aware if one of my students missed a later class. Some systems use an automated calling service to notify parents of a student's absence. Some systems do not. If the service is used, the calls are usually made after the school day ends. Students have been known to block the school's number from their home phones.

TY and congrats on your retirement.
Ty so much for giving us insight about attendance policies in GA schools. It works the same way in Public High Schools here in CT also.
And I agree 100% from the beginning i think it was curious if he missed the last block and also team practice and the game, that the parents were not notified.
Even more so, To me, I think it is very strange that the parents went directly to the school the very next morning and were at the school when KJ ( before? during?) was found. I have gone over this in my mind a thousand times. I have asked myself and others. If my son was missing over night, how and why would I immediately run to the school? I Think i would still be trying to figure things out by 8 am the next day. Yet to me the fact that they went there right away shows that there were issues at school- that they knew about, were concerned.
I guess I would put that on the list of inconsistently followed procedures at LHS on the day that KJ died in the Old gym of his HS in the middle of a school day.

I have a question about GA high schools. Do they all charge gym locker fees?

 

[iSleuth]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/justice/kendrick-johnson-surveillance-videos/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The expert states that the tapes were viewed on the day KJ was discovered, handed over 5 days later by the school district IT person- , which you don't want to do in an investigation. "You don't want the responsible party in charge of the evidence" in an investigation. They left it up to the school system to choose which parts of the tapes to hand over. That is a pretty wide latitude and casts a fairly wide shadow on the entire school system with LE.

Above all, above all guilty and responsible parties in this case, all full responsibility points to LHS and L k-12 all the way to the top. Where the buck stops. Because as I mentioned up thread, there is a really firm chain of command in a school system and especially in an emergency. So although it appears some protocol was followed inconsistently. I bet quite a bit was followed, and there were many people involved in certain decisions. Had to be. any other view is a little naive.

Public statements, damage control, and the decision to imho downplay a serious situation. Kids dying at school in the middle of the school day, by accident- or by foul play is as serious as it gets when you are running a school. The school with authorities surely made decisions and took action. And how they were carried out raises a lot of complex questions that need to be answered.

I guess one way, to solve loose ends and messy questions is to just lose all the significant evidence and information. Hey they work in a school...the dog ate their homework.

 

[pearl]

TY and congrats on your retirement.
Ty so much for giving us insight about attendance policies in GA schools. It works the same way in Public High Schools here in CT also.
And I agree 100% from the beginning i think it was curious if he missed the last block and also team practice and the game, that the parents were not notified.
Even more so, To me, I think it is very strange that the parents went directly to the school the very next morning and were at the school when KJ ( before? during?) was found. I have gone over this in my mind a thousand times. I have asked myself and others. If my son was missing over night, how and why would I immediately run to the school? I Think i would still be trying to figure things out by 8 am the next day. Yet to me the fact that they went there right away shows that there were issues at school- that they knew about, were concerned.
I guess I would put that on the list of inconsistently followed procedures at LHS on the day that KJ died in the Old gym of his HS in the middle of a school day.

I have a question about GA high schools. Do they all charge gym locker fees?

No, not all schools do. At the school where I worked, if a student wanted a gym locker, he/she just chose one and put a lock on it.