GA GA - Lam Ngoc Dang, 19, Gainesville/ Lake Lanier, 7 Sept 2016

[Lilibet]

Okay so apparently he was actually seen with the kayak by staff members and a fisherman. And he was out there in the evening. And even asked how late they closed...

Thanks. Just tidying up a detail I wondered about. It must have been beautiful out on the lake in the evening, perhaps at sunset.

 

[Ccosta1]

Thanks. Just tidying up a detail I wondered about. It must have been beautiful out on the lake in the evening, perhaps at sunset.

This info came from the gate people.
Yes but the point is he was out there alone.
And he was also 19 and young out in the dark alone.
Why would he ask what time they close as well. You would think it would get dangerous being so young out ther at night. And their mom told me something new. She said a fisherman said he saw someone with a yellow kayak that has the same build and looks as the missing brother dragging the kayak to the water looking around suspiciously..

 

[Lilibet]

This info came from the gate people.
Yes but the point is he was out there alone.
And he was also 19 and young out in the dark alone.
Why would he ask what time they close as well. You would think it would get dangerous being so young out ther at night. And their mom told me something new. She said a fisherman said he saw someone with a yellow kayak that has the same build and looks as the missing brother dragging the kayak to the water looking around suspiciously..

Interesting new info. Was this on Tuesday or Wednesday night? The park closes at 10:00 pm so yes, he could have been out there in the dark, which comes around 9:00 pm that time of year (sunset about an hour earlier). It would be dangerous, but I don’t think a 19 year old boy is necessarily going to think of danger, unfortunately. That’s a risk-taking age. But what’s with looking around “suspiciously” as he drags the kayak to the water? Who told this to his Mom?

Are you perhaps thinking that it wasn’t actually Lam?

Did anyone in the family take contemporaneous notes so that all these little details were written down and not just reliant on memories like his Mom’s recent revelation? His poor Mom.

 

[Ccosta1]

Interesting new info. Was this on Tuesday or Wednesday night? The park closes at 10:00 pm so yes, he could have been out there in the dark, which comes around 9:00 pm that time of year (sunset about an hour earlier). It would be dangerous, but I don’t think a 19 year old boy is necessarily going to think of danger, unfortunately. That’s a risk-taking age. But what’s with looking around “suspiciously” as he drags the kayak to the water? Who told this to his Mom?

Are you perhaps thinking that it wasn’t actually Lam?

Did anyone in the family take contemporaneous notes so that all these little details were written down and not just reliant on memories like his Mom’s recent revelation? His poor Mom.

Sadly no one really took notes. And we are thinking this is Lam. But we don’t know what’s up with him being suspicious. They said he was looking back and forth repeatedly looking around. As to who told their mom she said it was a family friend who talked with the fisherman.

 

[Lilibet]

Sadly no one really took notes. And we are thinking this is Lam. But we don’t know what’s up with him being suspicious. They said he was looking back and forth repeatedly looking around. As to who told their mom she said it was a family friend who talked with the fisherman.

Based on his question about an android phone being able to track an iPhone, I wonder if he was worried about being followed. And if so, why and by whom? And do you know if this was Tuesday or Wednesday? I assume Wednesday but I’m not sure.

Does the family have any theory about this behavior?

 

[Ccosta1]

Based on his question about an android phone being able to track an iPhone, I wonder if he was worried about being followed. And if so, why and by whom? And do you know if this was Tuesday or Wednesday? I assume Wednesday but I’m not sure.

Does the family have any theory about this behavior?

We are wondering that as well.. maybe he was worried about being followed.. probably by someone with an android. No one in his friend group besides 1 friend had an android but she is very trust worthy and we don’t suspect her at all. So we don’t know anyone who would be after him..we believe it was Wednesday as well.his friends describe his behavior ,right before this happened, to be cold and distant.

 

[Ccosta1]

We are wondering that as well.. maybe he was worried about being followed.. probably by someone with an android. No one in his friend group besides 1 friend had an android but she is very trust worthy and we don’t suspect her at all. So we don’t know anyone who would be after him..we believe it was Wednesday as well.his friends describe his behavior ,right before this happened, to be cold and distant.

Would you think he set this up because he was being fallowed ? Maybe he knew how many disappearances happen at lake Lanier and since he thought he was being fallowed he left his phone in the car and just tossed his kayak in the water and then left. Maybe that is why he was just dragging the kayak to the water suspiciously...these are just my thoughts out loud.

 

[Ccosta1]

Would you think he set this up because he was being fallowed ? Maybe he knew how many disappearances happen at lake Lanier and since he thought he was being fallowed he left his phone in the car and just tossed his kayak in the water and then left. Maybe that is why he was just dragging the kayak to the water suspiciously...these are just my thoughts out loud.

I know it’s bad but I think the only way left to get any sort of evidence. By any means how do we unlock a phone we don’t know the password to. Because we still have his phone that he had. They said they already tried taking it to apple. And apple said they couldn’t. I was thinking maybe we can get a warrant or something to help us.but I don’t know what is allowed.

 

[Lilibet]

We are wondering that as well.. maybe he was worried about being followed.. probably by someone with an android. No one in his friend group besides 1 friend had an android but she is very trust worthy and we don’t suspect her at all. So we don’t know anyone who would be after him..we believe it was Wednesday as well.his friends describe his behavior ,right before this happened, to be cold and distant.

BBM

That’s really strange that he was cold and distant. Did they attribute it to anything in particular? I wonder if they just thought he was in a funk or that maybe he was upset with them about something.

Could he have somehow been leading a “double life” and gotten involved with people who were dangerous? Did he have any money troubles?

Would you think he set this up because he was being fallowed ? Maybe he knew how many disappearances happen at lake Lanier and since he thought he was being fallowed he left his phone in the car and just tossed his kayak in the water and then left. Maybe that is why he was just dragging the kayak to the water suspiciously...these are just my thoughts out loud.

Did the fisherman actually see him get into the kayak? If not, you may be right. Or he went out on the lake and came back when the coast was clear and abandoned the kayak, car and everything.

I know it’s bad but I think the only way left to get any sort of evidence. By any means how do we unlock a phone we don’t know the password to. Because we still have his phone that he had. They said they already tried taking it to apple. And apple said they couldn’t. I was thinking maybe we can get a warrant or something to help us.but I don’t know what is allowed.

Apple has been notorious about not allowing its phones to be unlocked even by law enforcement. You’d need to do some research to see what’s possible, but don’t get your hopes up. In any case, you’d need a death certificate, which you don’t have because he’s missing. You can’t get a “search warrant” without evidence that a crime was committed, I believe. The FBI took Apple to court to force it to unlock a dead domestic terrorist’s phone and I don’t believe they succeeded. Apple is very cautious about potential “government overreach.” If his iPhone backed up into the cloud and you have access to his cloud account, maybe stuff is still there, but again, it sounds complicated. From what I understand, third party sites who sell the ability to unlock a phone aren’t reliable. But again, do the research.

 

[Ccosta1]

Did the fisherman actually see him get into the kayak?

Actually no he didn’t see him get in the lake. From what their mom told us. She said no.

 

[Lilibet]

Actually no he didn’t see him get in the lake. From what their mom told us. She said no.

Well that kind of leaves it wide open...anything could have happened.

To recap:
Lam was a junior at UGA and classes had started August 11.
Lam was skipping classes.
He had a recent physical.
He used a note from a doctor to be excused from a class and altered the date to be excused again (the next day? Close to when he disappeared.)
He was cold and distant with his friends prior to disappearing.
He emailed or texted a friend on Wednesday asking if an android phone could track an iPhone and was vague about why he wanted to know.
He sounded “sad” about the stress of college and work in email to this same friend.
He borrowed his brother’s kayak, and receipts show he entered the park on Tuesday and Wednesday.
The last contact with family and a friend was Wednesday.
He was supposed to go home Wednesday and go Thursday to Savannah with his brother and friends.
He was seen Wednesday evening at Lake Lanier by a fisherman dragging the kayak to the water looking around him suspiciously. The fisherman did not see him get into the kayak. He asked the park attendant what time the park closed.
He did not show up at his family home (In Atlanta?) Wednesday evening or Thursday.
On Friday he was reported missing (by family or a friend according to one article).
His car was found Saturday with wallet and phone inside at the beginning of Two Mile Creek Park.
A duffel bag with his car key has found in a bush at the end of Two Mile Creek Park.
The inflated kayak was found Sunday upside down at the end of Two Mile Creek Park on land behind someone’s yard. They claimed it was theirs until told it belonged to a missing person.
An extensive search overhead, on land and on water with sonar was done in both locations. Nothing more was found including his life jacket.

Any corrections or additions?

Loose ends:
Do you know when someone who knows him actually saw Lam on or before Wednesday Sept 7?

 

[Lilibet]

Not sure if others than LE can send to ?Garmin to get the information out as to where he was driving while in the area, and where he spent the night in between the two days he had a parking ticket. I think where he slept his head that night could be key?



So then when did the brother give the kayak to him, as it appeared that the brother did so knowing he was going to skip school? If he already had the kayak and was on his way back to certain parts of Atlanta, I would have suggested Lake Sinclair as on the drive back to Atlanta vs. coming across 53.

View attachment 264874



Those were my thoughts as it was said that 1) Car was found at 2 mile 2) kayak found at 2 mile 3) bag in bush found at 2 mile. Can the brother note on the map where all at 2 mile were found?

View attachment 264875

Couple of personal questions. Was he a good swimmer as MANY drownings at Lanier with folks who go to the parks that do not swim, and get into a dropoff situation with the bottom. As to upside down kayak, many folks do such with canoe/kayak to put things underneath, (not sure about inflatables though) especially if rain coming. The weather on the 6th had rain and wind, on the 7th no rain but again windy gusts (which makes kayaking in an inflatable more difficult than in still winds). Weather History for Gainesville, GA

Was his wallet found in the car/bag? (in other words, did he walk off with someone he met.. and nefarious?). Having the bag in a bush may just be that he didn't want to leave food bars and keys anywhere else.. What all was in the bag that it was kept in shade, and not too uncommon? MOO.

@Ccosta1, there is a Facebook site for boaters on Lake Lanier. It's so late to be posting there for assistance, but I do believe that one of the members is associated with "Missing in Georgia" so I'm going to reach out to him and will let you know what he says about this case etc. The Facebook site is Lake Lanier Boaters Group which has 26,500 members. I searched their group as they are VERY active in helping folks, they do post about missing folks, and help when they know, but I didn't see any mention of this case on their group at all. Many times folks in that group will share when they hear of a missing person on the Lake.. but I'm coming up empty on any mention.

I agree with the poster upthread, to put into NAMUS. I'm always disappointed when I hear that LE hasn't directed family to do such for such cases. It should be standard ops MOO.

My heart breaks for situations such as this where the family is in limbo without answers.

For seven years, 4 days of the week, I was on the docks, and did overnights at the islands on Lake Lanier... way (7-10 years!) before this happened.

One of my acquaintances lives at the intersection of the entrance to the Two Mile Park entrance, 5 houses off the cross street, and I *partied* there during those time... in other words, VERY familiar with that area therefore asking where stuff was found. Yet not familiar with at this time that is being asked about.

With his car there, with his bag in bushes (we used to do also to put in shade and hide from sun vs. keeping in car), and his kayak also at the park.... I tragically think this is a perfect scenario for a drowning vs. nefarious. UNLESS, he did drugs or the GPS shows that he was staying with someone *sketchy* over that night that he obviously drove out, and then drove back in to pay. That park was *self pay* in the old days IIRC. There is not a little place where the park person collects monies like others around the lake.

I'm saddened to learn that there was not more coverage, not only in MSM but in group that I've been checking on. Nada.

Social media is so different these days. Just these 5 years, totally different yet even back then, the Lake Lanier Boaters FB group was VERY active for folks in need. The family probably had no idea to post to such, that is so key these days MOO.

ETA: I'm going to ask the person on the Lake Lanier Boaters FB page that is part of "Missing Persons in Georgia" if the park folks, or whoever does such, has considered putting in a "trail camera" for those who do self pay

Thanks so much @dixiegirl1035 for the great info. It’s nice to have someone here who knows the lay of the land and thinks of resources. To your suggestion about NamUs and the Charley Project, I would add submitting DNA and dental records. This speeds up identification if Lam is found deceased, which of course, we hope isn’t the case.

 

[Ccosta1]

He sounded “sad” about the stress of college and work to a friend he texted (same one as above?)

Same friend yes.

found in a bush (near the car?).

the stuff was found at the end of two mile creek park and his car was found at the beginning.


Also yes thank you guys so much. You’ve helped the whole family uncover information they either forgot to tell authorities or that they have forgotten entirely... though if they put this all together when it initially happened he might have been found a little sooner... be we still hope for the best.

you did a great job at creating this timeline of sorts thank you ! Any more idea that you may have ?

 

[Ccosta1]

Do you know when someone who knows him actually saw Lam on or before Wednesday Sept 7?

With this question .. we aren’t sure. I asked them the same question. We have been trying to ask lams old roommates if they saw him at all during any of this but they haven’t responded yet. Also if he did stay the night somewhere near by or even in his car Tuesday night then maybe no one would have seen him. I asked his mom if the fisherman saw what lam was wearing but she said she didn’t think to ask about that.

 

[Lilibet]

Same friend yes.
the stuff was found at the end of two mile creek park and his car was found at the beginning.


Also yes thank you guys so much. You’ve helped the whole family uncover information they either forgot to tell authorities or that they have forgotten entirely... though if they put this all together when it initially happened he might have been found a little sooner... be we still hope for the best.

you did a great job at creating this timeline of sorts thank you ! Any more idea that you may have ?

Thanks for the info. The edit window was still open so I made corrections. Happy to help. I think memories get jogged when outsiders ask questions. I’m still wondering which person who knows him saw him last and when. As we’ve discussed, a text can be faked. I doubt they were, but want to know an in person contact if possible.

I see you answered that you don’t know. Hope the roommates come through. Were they good friends or just roomies?

 

[Ccosta1]

Thanks for the info. The edit window was still open so I made corrections. Happy to help. I think memories get jogged when outsiders ask questions. I’m still wondering which person who knows him saw him last and when. As we’ve discussed, a text can be faked. I doubt they were, but want to know an in person contact if possible.

I see you answered that you don’t know. Hope the roommates come through. Were they good friends or just roomies?

From what lams brothers told me they weren’t close close, just roomies I’m guessing.

 

[Ccosta1]

As of now I am just trying to give the officer some more information maybe they missed. Maybe it could be crucial mixed with information that they already have.
Any thing to try and keep the case on anyone’s minds.. I really don’t want them to just file this away.. it would make me feel awful

would it be alright with you if I used your timeline you created ? I might not send it but I might will. I just want to make sure its okay with you.

 

[Lilibet]

From what lams brothers told me they weren’t close close, just roomies I’m guessing.

So not a lot of attachment, especially after four years. Do you know if they might have had a falling out, which would make them less likely to respond to your query?

 

[Ccosta1]

So not a lot of attachment, especially after four years. Do you know if they might have had a falling out, which would make them less likely to respond to your query?

No they didn’t have any hard feelings with each other. They did respond but the question that they responded to was a question like “ hey are you lams old roommate” and they responded with yes I was lams old roommate. One of them said he remembers when they helped him(the roommate) move somewhere and that he feels bad for what happened to lam. So I’m not sure if he was even close enough to see what lam was wearing or was aware he even went to the late prior.

 

[Lilibet]

As of now I am just trying to give the officer some more information maybe they missed. Maybe it could be crucial mixed with information that they already have.
Any thing to try and keep the case on anyone’s minds.. I really don’t want them to just file this away.. it would make me feel awful

would it be alright with you if I used your timeline you created ? I might not send it but I might will. I just want to make sure its okay with you.

Yes, absolutely. Feel free to copy and paste it into a document and format it more legibly. I didn’t have a chance to cross-reference this info with what the LE officer said in at least one article that was way off on the timeline. As I recall, one of Lam’s friends sort of contradicted him to the reporter! It’s here on the thread somewhere. I’ll have a look tomorrow (actually today!) sometime.