GA - Rayshard Brooks, 27, fatally shot in Wendy’s car park, Atlanta, 12 Jun 2020 *officer charged*

[tresir2012]

Watch CBS This Morning: DA mulls charges against Atlanta officers - Full show on CBS All Access

Well IMO if he is mulling it over and weighing it up then he has reasonable doubts so I don't believe there is enough evidence to charge it as an unjustified homicide. However, if he wants to avoid riots he may still charge him but quietly drop it later. I don't know what he will do. He will know the full details of any warrants and may clarify this when he gives his decision.

 

[katydid23]

If you really believe that a taser is a deadly weapon, can you tell me how the cops in this case were justified in using a taser to subdue Mr.Brooks? As I said before most any object can be used to kill someone a pillow for instance.

A taser is used to disable and subdue someone. An armed police officer does not want to be disabled and subdued. He will defend against anyone trying to do so.

Imagine being physically attacked, by an angry drunk who doesn't want to go back to prison---you are totally blindsided---punched, kicked, wrestling around, grappling over your 2 weapons---and the perp gets the taser and then while running, turns towards you and shoots it, trying to disable and subdue you, in the middle of this intense fight------

Is your 1st instinct to allow him to keep trying oR are you going to disable him and defend yourself?

I think most officers are trained to end the fight at some point. And once someone has punched and grappled with you, steals one of your weapons and shoots the taser at you, you are going to see that as a serious attack and your life could be in danger.

He made the decision to shoot at that moment when the taser was shooting at him. It was after that decision that the attacker turned away and kept running---but the officer had no idea what was going to happen when he first pulled out the weapon and shot, in self defense.

If people seriously believe that our officers should be told they need to accept that from now on, perps can punch you, grapple with you, steal your taser and shoot you with it, and even then you cannot shoot in defense of your own life---a whole lot of good officers are going to quit, en masse.

 

[Curiosity1234]

Then watch the other officers stand down IMO.

Ask BLM I guess.

If the officer is charged, I hope numerous people will have the backbone to show some outrage.

If the officer or officers are charged will the judge or jury who hears the case be allowed to know about Rayshard Brooks' criminal record and see his you tube video ?

 

[tresir2012]

"Vail, post: 16157077, member: 136069"]Thank you for bringing the discussion back around.

Guys, this thread is for Rayshard, who's life was ended by a white police officer. The fact that there is rampant discrimination, especially in the south, is not remotely in question. "

(clipped quote) BBM
According to the U.S. Census Bureau 35% of all white Americans live in the south and 55% of all African Americans live in the south.

According to the chart I have included from statista the Northeast region of the U.S. has more Black Americans killed by police.

According to the Bureau of Justice the victimization rate by region per 1000 African Americans show the Northeast with 30.3%, Midwest 42.6%, South 22%, West 37%

It stands to reason that if discrimination was rampant especially in the south then the statistics would not show the south having a lower % of African Americans killed by police and a lower % of African Americans being victims of crime.

What the statistics show is that the % of African Americans being the victims of crime is higher the lower their income is and is higher in urban areas. Statistics also show that despite 55% of all African Americans living in the south there is a lower % of African Americans killed by police and the lowest % in the U.S. of African Americans being the victims of crime.

I have lived in the south for over 40 years. Despite the normal rhetoric the majority of white southerners do not see African Americans as being different or inferior in any way. We see them as former classmates and teachers, friends, family members and neighbors, our first responders, co-workers and supervisors, our nurses and our doctors, our bankers and lawyers, local business owners. We went to the same classrooms in the same schools with the same teachers, books and homework. We work the same jobs with the same benefits and supervisors. We shopp in the same businesses, and dine at the same restaurants prepared by the same cooks. We trusted our health care with the same providers and hospitals. We deposited our money in the same bank, bought cars in the same market, bought houses in the same neighborhoods. How can we see African Americans as different or inferior when our every day lives are so similar ? I am not disputing the fact that racism exists but I am disputing the fact that racism is especially rampant in the south.

The fact that Rayshard was African American and the police officer was white does not change the facts shown in the 2 videos. If Rayshard would have been Native American, Hispanic or Asian would it matter what color the police officer was ?

Infographic: Black Americans 2.5X More Likely Than Whites to Be Killed By Police
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

Is Ohio north or south? Are you thinking he was killed because he was black, rather than because he was resisting arrest and had armed himself?

 

[escape2sc]

Is Ohio north or south? Are you thinking he was killed because he was black, rather than because he was resisting arrest and had armed himself?

Ohio is considered Midwest. My post was in response to the comment about discrimination being rampant in the south.
Oh I think the officer acted in self defense because Rayshard was drunk, had a taser, and assaulted an officer resisting arrest which shows he was a danger to the officers and the public.

 

[katydid23]

I hear you, but Brooks was running away and the officers partner was in pursuit is well. I admit that I was not there and this completely in hindsight, but I would be afraid for my personal safety just not my life. I am also not a trained police officer. As I mentioned in another post I think the officer reacted the way he was trained, that is to drop his taser and transition to his pistol when faced with deadly force, I just do not think in this instance and these circumstances, so far, That he faced deadly force. I actually feel for the officer too, believe it or not.

"but I would be afraid for my personal safety just not my life..."


So an officer should put his personal safety at risk, before defending himself? They already fought him with all their might and he was able to toss them both around?

When the cop pulled his weapon, the perp was shooting the taser at him. His personal safety was at risk.

And we cannot ask an officer to stop defending himself because his back up is there. A cop cannot solely rely upon one back up, especially in the current volatile times. Who knows who else in the crowd may have jumped in to help Brooks?

When a violent felon is trying to tase you , you don't think , oh it's OK, my back up will cover me. NO, you need to defend yourself in a deadly situation like that.

It amazes me the way people assume these cops are seasoned warriors that can do physical battle with drunk, desperate felons and not be scared for their lives. This cop didnt shoot because he was a racist brute. He shot because he had reached his limit in trying to fight this violent man and needed it to end.

 

[oviedo]

Well IMO if he is mulling it over and weighing it up then he has reasonable doubts so I don't believe there is enough evidence to charge it as an unjustified homicide. However, if he wants to avoid riots he may still charge him but quietly drop it later. I don't know what he will do. He will know the full details of any warrants and may clarify this when he gives his decision.

your response is most thoughtful - and I do not envy this man's position - but if anyone knows the DA should - when is an officer allowed to use lethal force when he feels his life is in danger? to me that is the question - it's the officer's decision not mine or anyone elses' IMO to determine when he felt that level of force was necessary. I am worried that the media is not reporting everything - this morning's reporting sounded to me as if the guy did nothing - and LE just shot him for no reason (my interpretation of CBS this morning's comments). JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

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[katydid23]

"Vail, post: 16157077, member: 136069"]Thank you for bringing the discussion back around.

Guys, this thread is for Rayshard, who's life was ended by a white police officer. The fact that there is rampant discrimination, especially in the south, is not remotely in question. "

(clipped quote) BBM
According to the U.S. Census Bureau 35% of all white Americans live in the south and 55% of all African Americans live in the south.

According to the chart I have included from statista the Northeast region of the U.S. has more Black Americans killed by police.

According to the Bureau of Justice the victimization rate by region per 1000 African Americans show the Northeast with 30.3%, Midwest 42.6%, South 22%, West 37%

It stands to reason that if discrimination was rampant especially in the south then the statistics would not show the south having a lower % of African Americans killed by police and a lower % of African Americans being victims of crime.

What the statistics show is that the % of African Americans being the victims of crime is higher the lower their income is and is higher in urban areas. Statistics also show that despite 55% of all African Americans living in the south there is a lower % of African Americans killed by police and the lowest % in the U.S. of African Americans being the victims of crime.

I have lived in the south for over 40 years. Despite the normal rhetoric the majority of white southerners do not see African Americans as being different or inferior in any way. We see them as former classmates and teachers, friends, family members and neighbors, our first responders, co-workers and supervisors, our nurses and our doctors, our bankers and lawyers, local business owners. We went to the same classrooms in the same schools with the same teachers, books and homework. We work the same jobs with the same benefits and supervisors. We shopp in the same businesses, and dine at the same restaurants prepared by the same cooks. We trusted our health care with the same providers and hospitals. We deposited our money in the same bank, bought cars in the same market, bought houses in the same neighborhoods. How can we see African Americans as different or inferior when our every day lives are so similar ? I am not disputing the fact that racism exists but I am disputing the fact that racism is especially rampant in the south.

The fact that Rayshard was African American and the police officer was white does not change the facts shown in the 2 videos. If Rayshard would have been Native American, Hispanic or Asian would it matter what color the police officer was ?

Infographic: Black Americans 2.5X More Likely Than Whites to Be Killed By Police
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

So let's unpack that statement, that "Black Americans 2.5X More Likely Than Whites to Be Killed By Police"

Why would that be so? Is it because police officers are racist?

Or could there be other, more logical reasons?

Do police hunt down black people in order to go shoot them? Or perhaps, are the police dispatched through 911 calls, to crime scenes, where they engage in shoot outs with perpetrators?


And could it be that many of these 911 calls end up leading the police to suspects who are black? Maybe that is why blacks are more likely to be in physical battles with the police?

Look at the FBI statistics for yourself. It is all there in clear numbers.

And this case is a perfect example. Those 2 cops didnt go looking for Mr Brooks. They were called by the Wendy's manager because he was passed out drunk in the drive thru lane.

He was on probation for several violent felonies, and went ahead and got drunk behind the wheel of his car. Whose fault is that? Is that because of racism on the officer's end?

When they arrived, were they not polite, calm and respectful during the entire first 30 minutes of this incident? No hint of disrespect or racism by either officer.

I am sick of the way BLM tries to sell this narrative that ALL these blacks are dying at the hands of cruelly evil racist cops.

The new mantra is ACAB, All Cops Are Bastards. That is a racist mantra if I have ever seen one.

 

[katydid23]

I think this is a huge issue for the police to solve going forward. I know of no weapon technology currently available that would be a panacea. I think for the immediate future better training in team tactics would help. NYPD also hinted that technology allowing the police to find, and confront and arrest someone At another time and place might be preferable.

I think that plan, to allow violent suspects to run off into the night, to be picked up later, is a horrible plan.

It will embolden suspect's and make things even more volatile. Are cops going to have to physically battle every one they try to arrest from now on? Aren't a lot more arrestees going to give it a shot now? They can even punch, kick and tase, to get away now if necessary. And it gives them time to pack ups and get out of Dodge before cops manage to come find them.

Besides, very few suspects have 'real' addresses. It's not that easy to just go arrest them later. It takes a crew of specially trained Marshalls to make that happen.

You think officers are going to keep working under conditions like that? They are going to be told not to use force in any way, and at the same time, every perp will violently resist them. Bad combination of circumstances for the cops.

How are you going to feel when all of our officers walk away from this job? It is already happening.

We are giving our communities over to the criminals. It is devastating and it may be too late already.

 

[lisaNYC]

If the officer or officers are charged will the judge or jury who hears the case be allowed to know about Rayshard Brooks' criminal record and see his you tube video ?

Unless there is an applicable exception to the prior acts rule then no, in reference to his criminal record.

 

[escape2sc]

Unless there is an applicable exception to the prior acts rule then no, in reference to his criminal record.

Could the defense raise the issue that Rayshard resisted arrest and ran because he had an outstanding warrant in Ohio ?

 

[squareandrabbet]

I think that plan, to allow violent suspects to run off into the night, to be picked up later, is a horrible plan.

It will embolden suspect's and make things even more volatile. Are cops going to have to physically battle every one they try to arrest from now on? Aren't a lot more arrestees going to give it a shot now? They can even punch, kick and tase, to get away now if necessary. And it gives them time to pack ups and get out of Dodge before cops manage to come find them.

Besides, very few suspects have 'real' addresses. It's not that easy to just go arrest them later. It takes a crew of specially trained Marshalls to make that happen.

You think officers are going to keep working under conditions like that? They are going to be told not to use force in any way, and at the same time, every perp will violently resist them. Bad combination of circumstances for the cops.

How are you going to feel when all of our officers walk away from this job? It is already happening.

We are giving our communities over to the criminals. It is devastating and it may be too late already.

maybe I’ve got an overactive imagination, but I can already see this going down many different ways because one thing I am not imagining, is that terrified people are loose cannons and wildcards; and drunk terrified people even worse. What if Brooks had taken a hostage? If everyone is envisioning him just running out of steam and sitting down on a park bench somewhere: then again, I think some people should seek out some episodes of Cops etc., because these fleeing felons will run and hide everywhere.

 

[SugarQueen]

......

I guess she was fanning the flames. Or perhaps she was squirting water on the flames. But there were flames already there. Then the gas station was looted and torched. I think that de-funding is probably the way to go and the community can decide what they want.

I’m guessing it may have been spray paint she sprayed as an accelerant. In one photo there are dark smudges on her hand that looks like it could be paint.
She should be arrested and charged but I still don’t see anything showing she actually started the fire. In order for her to spray something on the flames there had to be a fire. That was my only point.

 

[katydid23]

I am worried that the media is not reporting everything - this morning's reporting sounded to me as if the guy did nothing - and LE just shot him for no reason (my interpretation of CBS this morning's comments). JMO

That is exactly what is happening. MSM is following a narrative that ACAB and all black suspects were innocent victims and wonderful fathers and the evil racist police are out of control.

Have you watched the videos of this tragic interaction? Both officers were polite and respectful and professional.

The suspect was drunk, was on probation so was desperate to avoid arrest, but he acted compliant and pleasant throughout, up until he failed the breathalyser. Then he blindsided the cops, punched one in the face, wrestled with them, tossed them around, stole the taser and shot it at one cop.

This was NOT racist cops acting out violently. This was a drunk felon with a violent criminal history, trying to avoid violating his probation, who desperately fought 2 good police officers to the point they felt concerned for their own safety and the safety of others.

All this stuff that MSM keeps putting out, about him being a loving father and his daughter's birthday, and her skating party, and all that is carefully manufactured to fit the BLM narrative.

They aren't going to tell you about his Domestic Violence , Cruelty to Children, Robbery and Assault, convictions. But they do tell us that 'the officer had one written reprimand' in 7 years, like that is indicative of a racist monster.

The media is stoking the flames and inciting violence and it is orchestrated and political, in my opinion.
<modsnip>

 

[oviedo]

I am worried that the media is not reporting everything - this morning's reporting sounded to me as if the guy did nothing - and LE just shot him for no reason (my interpretation of CBS this morning's comments). JMO

That is exactly what is happening. MSM is following a narrative that ACAB and all black suspects were innocent victims and wonderful fathers and the evil racist police are out of control.

Have you watched the videos of this tragic interaction? Both officers were polite and respectful and professional.

The suspect was drunk, was on probation so was desperate to avoid arrest, but he acted compliant and pleasant throughout, up until he failed the breathalyser. Then he blindsided the cops, punched one in the face, wrestled with them, tossed them around, stole the taser and shot it at one cop.

This was NOT racist cops acting out violently. This was a drunk felon with a violent criminal history, trying to avoid violating his probation, who desperately fought 2 good police officers to the point they felt concerned for their own safety and the safety of others.

All this stuff that MSM keeps putting out, about him being a loving father and his daughter's birthday, and her skating party, and all that is carefully manufactured to fit the BLM narrative.

They aren't going to tell you about his Domestic Violence , Cruelty to Children, Robbery and Assault, convictions. But they do tell us that 'the officer had one written reprimand' in 7 years, like that is indicative of a racist monster.

The media is stoking the flames and inciting violence and it is orchestrated and political, in my opinion.

I did watch the clip showed on CBS - it's edited of course. The media is showing what they want us to see IMO. But I also know they can't realistically show the entire encounter IMO. I'd like to see a report that was balanced.
JMO

 

[shotgun09]

Mr Brooks made a bad decision, faced with his pending arrest. He chose to resist, and then to become combative and steal an officers weapon and fire the weapon at the police.

A great man I knew, was shot early this morning. He was a younger retired sheriff, who worked security at a nearby hospital. His gun was taken away by a combative patient who had just assaulted a nurse. He (my friend) was shot and killed by this patient, and immediately the patient was shot and killed by a second security officer who was present. Two lives lost, because a human being made a bad decision. This war on police has got to end.

 

[katydid23]

Let’s visit fantasy land for a moment. In THIS case,at what point would the officer be expected to decide to let Brooks go home?
Should they send every drunk driver home? Even a convicted felon, who is violating probation?

If you or I were found passed out drunk at Wendy's, blocking the drive thru, we would be arrested for DUI. No question about it.

 

[angelainwi]

Maybe Brooks wouldn’t have resisted if he felt like he could actually trust the police. Black people have every right to fear for their lives in the custody of police, regardless of the circumstance. His fight or flight instinct probably kicked in, fearing what would happen next. This is a very valid fear for black men right now.

 

[Keefer]

A taser is used to disable and subdue someone. An armed police officer does not want to be disabled and subdued. He will defend against anyone trying to do so.

Imagine being physically attacked, by an angry drunk who doesn't want to go back to prison---you are totally blindsided---punched, kicked, wrestling around, grappling over your 2 weapons---and the perp gets the taser and then while running, turns towards you and shoots it, trying to disable and subdue you, in the middle of this intense fight------

Is your 1st instinct to allow him to keep trying oR are you going to disable him and defend yourself?

I think most officers are trained to end the fight at some point. And once someone has punched and grappled with you, steals one of your weapons and shoots the taser at you, you are going to see that as a serious attack and your life could be in danger.

He made the decision to shoot at that moment when the taser was shooting at him. It was after that decision that the attacker turned away and kept running---but the officer had no idea what was going to happen when he first pulled out the weapon and shot, in self defense.

If people seriously believe that our officers should be told they need to accept that from now on, perps can punch you, grapple with you, steal your taser and shoot you with it, and even then you cannot shoot in defense of your own life---a whole lot of good officers are going to quit, en masse.

again, he was running away. Nothing he did suggests his goal was anything other than escape. Why did the officer not shoot him as he ran away with the taser? We dont know. I would like to know the reasons for firing the officer too.