GA School System Going Entirely To Single-Sex Public Schools

[A.Wood]

If they did this in the savannah-chatham county public school system it wouldnt be terrible. We have probably worst school system in the state of Georgia. We have problems with overcrowding so I dont know exactly how they would go about doing something like that.

 

[gracefuljf1505]

i dislike the idea. i mean i was in middle school only a few years ago and in mid/high school most of my friends were guys not because i was a tom boy but i get along better with guys because girls cause too much drama. i mean it is really hard to deal with all kinds of drama and being ina school full of only girls will cause more drama than ever. i think that school need to stay like they are...plus if they move girls and guys apart it is just going to make them want to rebel more and have sex. thats just my opinion of a younger person who was in school only a few years ago.

 

[golfmom]

This is a shock to me! I don't know how I feel about it...leaning more towards not liking it I think.
My 10 year old (11 on Monday!) is a total tom-boy and likes hanging out with boys more than she does girls. She has some really good friends who are boys, and I'd hate to see her lose them.

ATLANTA --

"This school district is in bad shape," said Superintendent Shawn McCollough. "We've made very positive incremental steps in the last two years. Our kids need help faster than what we're doing, and that's why we're moving to a faster, more innovative program."
more: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/15305470/detail.html

I love that they are being so proactive and creative in correcting the school district's educational problems. However, I have deep concerns that ultimately this would lead to unequal education. Will both schools have enough students for advanced classes, and if they don't will the class be dropped?

An intangible is ... will girls learn how to go toe-to-toe competing with boys? This is a bigger concern than you might think. My daughter's major is engineering and you'd be amazed how many girls drop out, not because of grades, but out of frustration. Recognizing this, her university is trying to put in supports for girls in male dominated fields and help them become more assertive (especially dealing with aggressively competitive boys).

 

[golfmom]

Well, it seems like the county doesn't have a problem with providing unequal education and segregation. :snooty:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/02/14/gaschools_0215.html

The county's one charter school – Lake Oconee Academy – will remain coed. It is public, but has autonomy and is governed by a committee of parents and community leaders.

The charter school, unlike the rest of the county's public schools, has an enrollment zone focused on the predominantly affluent, white lakefront community south of I-20. The rest of Greene is mostly black and middle class or low income.

The charter school opened last fall amid protests by black citizens who said the enrollment zones created de facto segregation. Attending the charter school would not be an option for the majority of families in Greene County, who live north of the interstate.

 

[Trino]

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!!!
I am not a fan of the standardized testing anyways. How about just educating these children???
Maybe spend some money on paying teachers??

As a retired h.s. teacher, I can tell you that all emphasis is upon standardized testing and state standards. IMO it's sad because it leaves little freedom for teacher individuality.

The problem is after h.s. SAT and ACT tests were only sufficient in gaining admission to universities. It was difficult for community colleges and businesses to differential between an A in Alabama and an A in Iowa. The idea now is that all h.s. graduates will be robots.

As far as teacher pay is concerned, when computers arrived, businesses robbed the American classroom. Many teachers needed to support their family, and business offered them more money.

IMO today's educational hiring priority has a greater emphasis upon diversity than quality.

 

[golfmom]

As a retired h.s. teacher, I can tell you that all emphasis is upon standardized testing and state standards. IMO it's sad because it leaves little freedom for teacher individuality.

Trino, the most desirable teachers and schools have learned one very valuable lesson ... to teach the tests.

 

[golfmom]

Any studies or proof to back that one up?

There is tons of info on the web regarding women in engineering.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_2699_132/ai_106473713

Why do many women drop out of engineering majors? A comprehensive study finds that the reason is not lack of academic ability, but a discouraging academic climate and women not feeling part of a larger engineering community. Females who succeed in the major often do so by availing themselves of a variety of support activities and resources during their undergraduate years, suggests the large-scale, multi-institutional, longitudinal examination of women's experiences in college engineering programs, by Goodman Research Group, Inc., Cambridge, Mass.

 

[nanandjim]

...I think we learned more as we had no boys to impress. Vice versa, and once we all got out of school and got on the same buses as the boys it was extra fun...

I agree. I think that same gender schools are less of a distraction for the kids. I think that girls feel the need to "dumb down" starting in middle school. For some reason, they think that boys do not like smart girls. This happened with my stepdaughter, at least. She lives in the South. For some reason, she all of a sudden "didn't understand" Math or Science. Fortunately, she made it through college. I was amazed that she became an accountant! I am very proud of her.

 

[Paladin]

There is tons of info on the web regarding women in engineering.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_2699_132/ai_106473713

Why do many women drop out of engineering majors? A comprehensive study finds that the reason is not lack of academic ability, but a discouraging academic climate and women not feeling part of a larger engineering community. Females who succeed in the major often do so by availing themselves of a variety of support activities and resources during their undergraduate years, suggests the large-scale, multi-institutional, longitudinal examination of women's experiences in college engineering programs, by Goodman Research Group, Inc., Cambridge, Mass.

The article makes no specific mention as to what the causes of the discouraging academic climate are. I believe you are inferring that women being outnumbered by men is the main reason they are discouraged. I don't agree.

The article also makes no specific mention of what these support activities include. I believe you are inferring that there are female-specific engineering groups available that teach them how to stand toe-to-toe with men in the engineering workfield. Maybe there are, but I don't understand what this has to do with intergender class-rooms. This article is largely dealing with universities and colleges. The issue at hand is about K-12 public schools.

 

[golfmom]

The article makes no specific mention as to what the causes of the discouraging academic climate are. I believe you are inferring that women being outnumbered by men is the main reason they are discouraged. I don't agree.

The article also makes no specific mention of what these support activities include. I believe you are inferring that there are female-specific engineering groups available that teach them how to stand toe-to-toe with men in the engineering workfield. Maybe there are, but I don't understand what this has to do with intergender class-rooms. This article is largely dealing with universities and colleges. The issue at hand is about K-12 public schools.

Oh, what an interesting discussion! There are many articles on the subject. I just picked that one since it referred to women in engineering. I am not inferring that women being outnumbered is the main reason that they're discouraged. Obviously that would certain support the case for same-sex schooling. I think that the problem ultimately comes down to the basic ability to compete head on with men. If that is a current issue while schooling is integrated what would be the effect of gender specific schooling?

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/021608/news_20080216058.shtml

Research shows girls and boys have very different learning styles from the time they're in elementary school until their teens, he said. While girls tend to set higher standards for themselves than boys, they can also be overly critical of themselves, which can damage self-esteem. Boys tend to respond more to loud and more confrontational teachers, according to research, and may tune out a teacher that's soft-spoken or passive. Boys also think more abstractly in subjects like math, the research says, while girls tend to want to relate math to real-world situations.

If teachers know how to harness these differences, teaching boys and girls separately can boost academic performance, Sax said.

But those character traits aren't universal for all boys and girls, he said, and separating students without properly training the teachers can be a waste of time.
.........

But while Sax and the National Association for Single Sex Public Education that employs him are advocates for single-sex schools across the country, Sax himself is critical of Greene County's plan.

The association does not support making same-gender classes mandatory, he said.

And the reason no other public school district has tried the same-gender concept on the same scale as Greene County is because it sounds illegal.

..........

Although the issue is specifically to K-12 schooling. There are no real studies on the effects of a same sex PUBLIC education. Comparing the results of a private same sex education to a public one would be lacking in demographic effects. I'm sure that we would both agree that a schools function is to prepare a child for higher education and the "real" world. My concern is that this school board is making a very rash decision and not considering the long term effects it would have on the student body.

 

[Indy Gal]

I am split on this one, but leaning towards liking the idea. You guys all bring up great points here!!

 

[golfmom]

There's a lot in this article supporting same sex classrooms. I thought that this was interesting point, that poorer school districts are using this as a band-aid to repair low test scores. It's interesting to note that in the Greene county schools the only school that will be unaffected by the change is the charter school.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213720,00.html

Sax said one reason many low-income schools adopt single-gender classes is because of the Adequate Yearly Progress report, (AYP) part of the federal No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB). The NCLB allows for public single-sex classes or schools; in 2001, it appropriated $3 million for grants to local educational agencies for such programs. Under the act, public schools are evaluated by students' progress in reading/language arts, mathematics and either graduation or attendance rates.

"School districts that fail the AYP ask 'How can we improve student's performance without additional money,'" Sax said. "It doesn't cost anything if you have at least 75 kids in each grade. This is a way to achieve the improvement of academic performance without spending the money."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/02/14/gaschools_0215.html

Research shows that when boys and girls are separated, each group performs better in school and is more likely to go to college, said Julie Ancis, a professor in the College of Education at Georgia State University.

But she said single-gender schools tend to be private institutions with updated technology and ample resources. Dividing students by gender in a low-income school system might not have the same impact, she said.

 

[Paladin]

I don't know for sure whether it's better or worse. I was just challenging T-Rex's claim that it provides a better background for office settings. I think it's worth a shot.

 

[golfmom]

I don't know for sure whether it's better or worse. I was just challenging T-Rex's claim that it provides a better background for office settings. I think it's worth a shot.

I think that it's an interesting proposition, but I'm not sure that I'd want my children's education hinging on such a radical, experimental idea. How could they possibly ensure separate but equal, when they already advocate separate and unequal education within their district. After reading about this particular county school board, I'd strongly consider private or homeschooling.

ETA: Besides, aren't they planning on invading Tennessee? Maybe if their schooling was better, they wouldn't have messed up the boundary.

 

[Paladin]

I think that it's an interesting proposition, but I'm not sure that I'd want my children's education hinging on such a radical, experimental idea.

It's not a radical, experimental idea. Private schools do it every year.

 

[golfmom]

It's not a radical, experimental idea. Private schools do it every year.

Private schools do it each year with much greater resources and technology available. I was reading some feedback from district teachers where they don't have enough toilet paper for the restrooms ... much less, desks, books, or chairs for each student. They are in financial crises and are now funding a "charter school" that essentially is a private school for the wealthy and starting up a social experiment with the remainder.

IMO, they want a quick fix to the flaws in their school district without considering the outcomes.

 

[Paladin]

Private schools do it each year with much greater resources and technology available. I was reading some feedback from district teachers where they don't have enough toilet paper for the restrooms ... much less, desks, books, or chairs for each student. They are in financial crises and are now funding a "charter school" that essentially is a private school for the wealthy and starting up a social experiment with the remainder.

IMO, they want a quick fix to the flaws in their school district without considering the outcomes.

I don't think it hurts to try. It shouldn't cost a thing to place girls in one school and boys in another. You make "quick" and "fix" seem like negative terms. The potential outcome could be wonderful.

 

[golfmom]

I don't think it hurts to try. It shouldn't cost a thing to place girls in one school and boys in another. You make "quick" and "fix" seem like negative terms. The potential outcome could be wonderful.

But, how would you ensure an equal education between the two groups? Inevitably a disparity would arise. I don't think separating boys and girls is really the answer. Better teachers, lower ratios, more resources are what provides quality education. I don't see how just separating the groups and not fundamentally changing the education they're receiving is going to make a hill of beans difference.

Quite frankly, I think that the girls will meet the NCLB standards and the boys will be left in the dust. Then what?

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/021608/news_20080216058.shtml

Greene County has about 2,000 students, most of whom are black and from low-income families.

Many students there feel the effects of generational poverty, McCollough said, and for years the high poverty rate has translated to lower levels of academic success, parental support and a graduation rate that's below the state average.

But what concerns McCollough is a gap between the performance of boys and girls who attend Greene County schools, especially at the county's middle school.

Boys consistently lag behind on standardized tests like the Criterion-Referenced Competency Test given to students annually at elementary and middle schools. In the sixth grade last year, 42 percent of boys failed the language-arts section of CRCT - twice as many as the girls - and boys failed at greater rates than girls in nearly every other subject of the test.

At the high school level, girls also outperform boys.

Girls graduate 73 percent of the time, while boys just 61 percent. Girls pass most end-of-course tests in greater numbers than boys, particularly in literature and composition, and are half as likely to be disciplined.

 

[golfmom]

I have a big problem with this charter school business .... If same sex classrooms are such a great idea, why is the charter school exempted from the program?

http://www.examiner.com/a-1220854~G...public_schools.html?cid=rss-Georgia_Headlines

The school board approved the measure last week, drawing vocal protests from some students, parents and community members. It exempts only a charter school, which is public but operates independently from the rest of the system and has a limited attendance zone.
....
The county's one charter school - Lake Oconee Academy - will remain coed. It is public, but has autonomy and is governed by a committee of parents and community leaders.

The charter school, unlike the rest of the county's public schools, has an enrollment zone focused on the predominantly affluent, white lakefront community south of Interstate 20. The rest of Greene is mostly black and middle class or low income.

The charter school opened last fall amid protests by black citizens who said the enrollment zones created de facto segregation. Attending the charter school would not be an option for the majority of families in Greene County, who live north of the interstate.

 

[MeoW333]

I'm not sure what to think of the idea, either. What will they do if they have some girls who learn better by "hands on doing" and guys that learn better by "lecturing"? If they do separate them by gender, i hope they take this into account.

I had a lot of guy friends in my high school; one was my best friend. They tend to start less drama than the girls.
On the other hand, i do see how same sex schooling would create less distractions. It wouldn't lower the teen pregnancy rate, as after school kids are free to do what they want.

I guess try it and see how it works out.