GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

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  • #941
Sorry folks, I just can't find it by searching.........but I am almost positive that I read somewhere on this thread or the one before, some reference by the Mom to "Job" in the bible. Anyone recall this? Perhaps even a particular verse from the book of Job. Now isn't Job the one in the Bible whose faith was tested such that he was willing to sacrifice one of his sons to prove his faith and trust in God?

This link may be the one you were thinking of...

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/06/wife_of_justin_ross_harris_als.html

"Siting the Book of Job, she [Leanna Harris] said the Lord gives and takes away, and His name should be praised in good times and bad."

BBM...

(More at link above...)

HTH...:seeya:
 
  • #942
Something so strange about this. I hope we get more info this week.
 
  • #943
When he saw his son was in his car seat, he had to know he had been in there for 7 hours, baking in the heat.

There is NO WAY that he could have thought Coop was 'choking.' He knew what happened. jmo :moo:

Yep!
Imo that is just silly. Innocent little Cooper was dead...
 
  • #944
He googled it. She googled it. How could they NOT be aware?


What did they search immediately after?

If it were a genuine fear based search, surely the next search would be for prevention devices & strategies .

Right?






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  • #945
I think he's playing it wrong from a defense standpoint. I would think "grief stricken & full of remorse & sorrow" would play better.

At the funeral service he apologizes...apologizes for not being able to attend....

Wow... IMO it's all "off"
from start to finish.


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as far as I read it he was denied furlough to attend and that most likely has to do with his bond denial. He, however, cannot be refused calls. While I have a lot of questions in this case I don't think the defense attorney had anything to do with his furlough denial nor do we know if he met with his attorney prior to his phone call at this time.:twocents:
 
  • #946
I think he's playing it wrong from a defense standpoint. I would think "grief stricken & full of remorse & sorrow" would play better.

At the funeral service he apologizes...apologizes for not being able to attend....

Wow... IMO it's all "off"
from start to finish.


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Yes, because the normal reaction, even if this was a tragic accident, would be grief stricken and full of remorse. I don't think I would be able to live with myself if this happened. I would be second guessing and beating myself up far more than anyone could possibly beat me up.

Wouldn't that be the normal reaction of any innocent parent?
 
  • #947
Something so strange about this. I hope we get more info this week.

I am guessing Nancy Grace is all over this? I refuse to watch her any more, but this sounds right up her alley.
 
  • #948
I keep wanting this to have been an accident. Whenever someone posts the rare defense of him, I read it carefully trying to see the truths. I do the same things with newspaper stories, I read the comments seeking out the one post that will make me feel it was just an unfortunate set of sad coincidences that led up to this happening to the sweet baby.

I guess because I have sons around his age, and one of them is very ADHD, I keeping asking myself could it have happened that way? Could it have been an accident? A negligent act, but not one he staged. Could he have really missed seeing that baby at lunch time and then again in the afternoon?

I want something to tell me that he is conclusively guilty because I can not imagine the hell of a father that committed a terrible act, but one that he did not do consciously, being blamed for doing it on purpose. I can not imagine the anguish of being the wife, the mother, the friend, or co-worker of such a man.

It breaks my heart that I have trouble putting the pieces together as they have been presented to understand how he could have just forgotten, or if he did, not seen the reminders that would have prevented this.
 
  • #949
as far as I read it he was denied furlough to attend and that most likely has to do with his bond denial. He, however, cannot be refused calls. While I have a lot of questions in this case I don't think the defense attorney had anything to do with his furlough denial nor do we know if he met with his attorney prior to his phone call at this time.:twocents:


I meant like ....he should be feeling guilty and sorry everyone had to be there at a funeral.
it's his fault, regardless ...that his son is dead.


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  • #950
I was wondering about this --

Child Cruelty 1st Degree: First degree cruelty to children occurs when any person maliciously causes a child cruel or excessive physical or mental pain or deprives the child of necessary sustenance to the extent that the child's health or well-being is jeopardized.

Couldn't it be said that he deprived him of liquids by leaving him in the care and that along with the heat helped contribute to his death?

Or is this for cases where the parents lock a child in a room and don't give them food or drink for days, leading to death?

I'm just a bit confused, because by "forgetting" him in the car, he was deprived of sustenance. And while I highly doubt if he had water to drink throughout his time in the car would change anything, the fact that he didn't have anything probably didn't help! I mean, with dehydration and all.

Edit: or did they just lower it because at the time they couldn't prove premeditation? If they get more details with the tox and/or electronics, I wonder if they'd re-bump it up to 1st?
 
  • #951
The meaning of Criminal Negligence in Georgia which is part of Georgia's Cruelty to Children in the 2nd degree:

When such person with criminal negligence causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain. O.C.G.A. 16-5-70(c). Criminal negligence necessarily implies, not only knowledge of probable consequences which may result from the use of a given instrumentality, but also wilful or wanton disregard of the probable effects of such instrumentality upon others likely to be affected thereby. Criminal negligence is something more than ordinary negligence. Criminal negligence is the reckless disregard of consequences, or a heedless indifference Cruelty to Children 23 V iolence to the rights and safety of others, and a reasonable foresight that injury would probably result. Bohannon v. State, 230 Ga. App. 829 (1998).

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ug...y-to-children-in-the-second-degree-in-georgia
 
  • #952
Who is sooooo stupid they search HOW LONG and at what TEMPERATURE to cause the DEATH of a child???

Didnt they know NOT to leave the child in the car?

If they feared one of them could....what's the purpose of searching the "mechanics" of death?

Wouldn't any reasonably intelligent human being with such a fear search for ways to avoid FORGETTING their child in the car?????


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  • #953
But he was long dead.....likely expired for six hours by the time RH got into the car. The gasping from heat stroke would have long passed by 4:00 P.M.

I think he panicked and made up the choking story when he had to drive to a restaurant and reveal that his son was dead. Then he backpedaled and went back to "I forgot."

How could he think he was choking....when the car smelled rancid and he drove for a mile in it.

I think the "choking" is important but not because he actually heard such a thing.

maybe the baby was making "choking" sounds at noon when daddy slammed that car door shut one last time.... Is why choking was on his mind...
 
  • #954
And THAT, my friend, would justify PREMEDITATED MURDER.

I can see his defense now: "But I only gave him the ______ so he would sleep through the day, while I had him in the backseat!! I never meant to kill him!! I just couldn't pay for day care!"
 
  • #955
I want to know this as well.




Respectfully snipped and bolded by me. I think you misunderstand some of our sentiments.

It's not that we don't believe it could happen, it COULD Happen. You know what else could happen?


  • A child finds a key and sticks it into an electrical socket and electrocutes themselves.

    A child walks out the front door of their home and wanders into traffic and gets hit by a car

    A child tips head first into a toilet and drowns

    A child falls down a flight of stairs and breaks his neck

    A child gets into medicine left out and over doses on drugs

    A child gets into cleaning supplies and dies from drinking bleach

    A child tries to pull on the television set and topples the entire thing onto themselves

    A child stumbles and falls into an opened dishwasher door and impales themselves on knives

    A child walks up to the stove and pulls a pot of boiling water onto themselves and suffers third degree burns


Any number of these things could ALSO happen. But when they do we hold the parent entirely responsible for not watching their child.

When you STRAP A CHILD INTO A CAR SEAT you have an extra level of responsibility. This is not a child getting out of sight for a few minutes and an accident happening. You are physically restraining the child behind you in the car. What kind of sick parent doesn't take that responsibility seriously? There is absolutely no way for the child to survive this, bar a random stranger breaking the windows on a car.

No I don't have sympathy for a parent that puts their child in a situation where they are completely at the mercy of the simple memory of the parent and then the parent forgets them. I do not have sympathy for a parent who forgets a frickin' HUMAN BEING in the car. Especially when they probably didn't forget the cell phone.

What kind of human depravity have we reduced our parents to that the bare minimum of remembering your responsibility to your own child, is excused with sympathy? I seriously do not understand this way of thinking.

The bare minimum for a parent is remembering your child. We've lowered the bar so much, that the fact that this poor child was horrifically baked alive in a car, pales in comparison to the discomfort that some people feel because they slack off when taking care of their children. It's shocking to me. All parents who do this should be prosecuted.

This very case demonstrates why. There are people making excuses because they feel insecure about it possibly happening to them. IF that becomes the baseline of the evaluation of responsibility of a parent, children are at a loss.

Waking up late is NOT the same thing as abandoning a child to be baked alive for hours. Just remember the poor little girl who ripped out all her hair before she died in a situation like this. It is inexcusable.

^^^This
 
  • #956
I am reading his Reddit.

He started a thread declaring that he was moving to Marietta GA in May. He goes on to say that he timed his commute to Vinings (The Chikfila he went to with Cooper was in Vinings) and it only takes 6 minutes from his house on the interstate.

Six minutes to the chikfila from his house.

He then states that he thinks he is going to be happy with his choice in Marietta because he is bringing a little one into the world and has concerns about "safety."

The post was from two years ago.
 
  • #957
But he was long dead.....likely expired for six hours by the time RH got into the car. The gasping from heat stroke would have long passed by 4:00 P.M.

I think he panicked and made up the choking story when he had to drive to a restaurant and reveal that his son was dead. Then he backpedaled and went back to "I forgot."

How could he think he was choking....when the car smelled rancid and he drove for a mile in it.

I think the "choking" is important but not because he actually heard such a thing.

I think he heard Cooper choking at lunch time and realized he wasn't dead, so he closed the door and left. Later, he slipped and mentioned it.
 
  • #958
The meaning of Criminal Negligence in Georgia which is part of Georgia's Cruelty to Children in the 2nd degree:



http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ug...y-to-children-in-the-second-degree-in-georgia

I find the part where it say's "willful or wanton disregard" as being important.

A Willful and Wanton Conduct is a willful or wanton injury that must have been intentional or the act must have been committed under circumstances exhibiting a reckless disregard for the safety of others, such as a failure, after knowledge of impending danger, to exercise ordinary care to prevent it or a failure to discover the danger through recklessness or carelessness when it could have been discovered by the exercise of ordinary care. [Henslee v. Provena Hosps., 369 F. Supp. 2d 970, 977-978 (N.D. Ill. 2005)]

http://definitions.uslegal.com/w/wilful-and-wanton-conduct/
 
  • #959
Hi everyone :seeya: just catching up.
Kaiser isn't a hospital per say. It is a multi doctor facility with a pharmacy and xray mri ct scans etc. It has pediactrics, family doctors As well as specialists like urology, ob/gyn , ortho etc, but if someone ran in the building needing help, they would help.
Home Depot may even use Kaiser Permanente I'm not sure.
moo.

They are partners. It doesn't mean Ross Harris used.KP.
http://my.kp.org/homedepot/

Thanks for clarifying! It seems there was also an actual hospital behind his work.

I'm trying to square it. Say you really, really didn't know your son was there. And somehow realized while driving. Even in panic, what would your instinct be? Even IF KP had no ER, and you knew that, what else could you do? Why not pull over and call 911? And/or wave down drivers? Or drive to the 1 of 3 places around the pizza shop that could help? Or a pharmacy? Why the heck a pizza shop?!
 
  • #960
You can only allow for so many unlucky coincidences IMO.

I remember in another case, a lawyer commented (I paraphrase), "This either happened precisely the way he said.... or he is the unluckiest man in the world."
 
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