GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #6

[CHERIE.T]

Hubby and I are first responders. Although it is not specifically part of our job, we do stay at the scene of a death to help the coroner. (We live in a small rural town where everyone knows each other). So the coroner is someone that hubby knows well and we have had many discussions about different circumstances with dead bodies and the things we have experienced. Bodies have been known to "burp, expel gas or feces, urinate, twitch and other such things.


http://io9.com/5862418/10-bodily-functions-that-continue-after-death

2. Vocalization....(after death) bacteria go to work and the proportion of the gas increases. Since we carry most bacteria inside our body, the gas builds up inside. .... One of those ways is through the windpipe. Since rigor mortis stiffens all the muscles, including the ones that work the vocal cords, the combination leads to some very eerie sounds coming from dead bodies. People hear moans, groans, and squeaks coming from the dead

OH MY, I would surely faint if I heard a corpse moan, groan or squeak. :blushing:

 

[Snick1946]

I haven't had time to go back over ll the posts so my apologies if i am repeating speculation that already has been covered, but something re a motive has occurred to me.

Wasn't there a comment made by one of their friends that this couple 'tried so long' to have a baby? I seem to recall that- this person went on to say they did not see how the dad could have done this deliberately after they went through all the effort. If so maybe LE needs to be looking at this child's paternity. Was he an in-vitro child with possible donor sperm/egg or both? A lot of times one parent will have reservations about doing this but goes along- it causes issues later.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Oh my gosh. [modsnip]

I don't know. I will wait for the truth.

 

[lonetraveler]

But wouldn't you search for the source of the odor? Even a quick glance around the car seat? It's a small SUV--wouldn't have taken but a second. Even thinking Cooper might have dropped a bottle of now soured milk or something...wouldn't a person who smelled an odor try to resolve the smell before driving off to meet friends? Personally, I have an exceptionally sensitive nose and have often walked my house bird dog style (nose leading) to search out the source of an odor.

:floorlaugh: I can fully appreciate this, my family calls me a Blood Hound, I can smell things other people can't even smell.

 

[MsMarple]

He could have but that would not help their case so they would not be searching specifically for that.

Ah, I see what you mean (I think). IOW, he may or may not have said more but LE only put the probable cause part of his statement in the warrant. The forensics will reveal the entire search.

So, it's back to waiting for more info....sigh.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

We don't know if it will be a felony murder case when all is said and done. The evidence has to all be weighed and measured before trial and things change before then.

It is still an accident to me. I don't see proof of intentional murder.

You're right -- until the trial is finished and a jury renders its verdict (or he pleads guilty prior), we don't know.

Would you agree there is enough evidence to arrest and try? Not with intent to murder (premeditated) but with felony murder (abuse or negligence resulting in death AKA "not an accident")?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IMO, the only reason you need to know what temp leads to death is if you intend to leave someone in the car.

I don't care if it's 40 degrees outside, you don't leave a child in the car.

There is no safe temp IMO

It depends when and where and why.
And I think that it is a good thing to know and that many many parents have probably searched for info on it after hearing a case about it on the news.

 

[JeannaT]

Horrible to think but maybe they just needed a down payment for a house and thought that they could get rid of Cooper and that they could just have another baby later on. Terrible I know. Maybe I've been following crimes way too long. The mother's statement about not wanted Cooper back in this world really, really bothers me. IMO this statement is the worse one yet.

I've never had to experience the horror of losing a child.

I did know a guy in college who was an olympic hopeful gymnast until he fell and broke his neck. He was in a wheelchair, and his Christian faith was very deep. He said many times, "being paralyzed was the greatest thing that ever happened to me because now I know the value of life and trust in God".

Sometimes, people who have suffered unbelievable and inexplicable losses say the oddest things, trying to make sense of their loss. Otherwise, just to think their loss was just a fluke, a "luck of the draw" is unfathomable. It's intolerable. The loss has to have a purpose.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You're right -- until the trial is finished and a jury renders its verdict (or he pleads guilty prior), we don't know.

Would you agree there is enough evidence to arrest and try? Not with intent to murder (premeditated) but with felony murder (abuse or negligence resulting in death AKA "not an accident")?

No. I don't believe there is at this point. I think it was too quick.

 

[Threeplus1]

I don't know...even when a motive has been provided (Susan Smith, Scott Peterson), I'm still left shaking my head because the "motive" makes no sense to me! I'm going to drown my children so I can be available for another person? I'm going to murder my pregnant wife and unborn son so I can be with this new girl I just met? That's craziness to me!:banghead: I'll even go so far as to say I'm bothered that those excuses would be thought to be reasons why someone would do such horrible deeds. (FTR, I'm not suggesting at all that people think those are valid excuses or anything like that.) I can't understand how anyone could harm their child for ANY reason...other person, money, freedom, etc. so I guess that's why I'm not really stumped by his apparent lack of motive. I'm not sure it's going to help me understand any more.

 

[lonetraveler]

How does getting rid of Cooper create a down payment for a house?

Well let's see, maybe insurance or donations made by people who just want to help a grieving family??? He probably had work insurance that covered dependents.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

He could have but that would not help their case so they would not be searching specifically for that.

I would *hope* that if they are looking for searches in reference to hot car deaths that they would pull up ALL clicks pertaining to the subject matter. The purposeful avoidance of a thorough investigation could be easily challenged by the defense.

 

[Judicious1]

That bothers me a lot.

Not if they already a planned to bring him downtown and just wanted it done... Again I was notified from the scene here in GA. Not by police but a friend who witness the accident. Maybe they don't come to the door like they do elsewhere. Especially if a friends or family member is present to do it.

 

[believe09]

I don't think an odor would have jarred my memory. I don't think I would go from GOOD GOD it smells in here, to therefore my child must be dead.

I might think a cat had crawled up in there, a diaper was left, something.

It seems in retrospect that an odor is obviously the deceased child, but that's because we know how this ends.

Would you have investigated the source of that odor prior to getting into your steaming hot vehicle and driving for 10 minutes?

I think you would. Everyone would. Unless you already knew what it was.

I will take speculation one step further...what if his plan was to make it to drinks with the co workers and then do the big reveal but he just couldn't take the smell any more?

I respect everyone's point of view sincerely, but he was driving around with the overwhelming odor of his dead baby, no windows down and claimed the baby had just been choking when the body was in fixed rigor and blue/gray.

Really?

 

[popsicle]

:floorlaugh: I can fully appreciate this, my family calls me a Blood Hound, I can smell things other people can't even smell.

Or are you smelling things that aren't there? :floorlaugh:

 

[newone]

Thanks, Karmady. I'll look for it. I do know that corpses belch and vomit and have posted about the belching part.

Lordy.

and I am still recovering from that great uncle story
but I am grateful for the education -- thanks

 

[lonetraveler]

I've never had to experience the horror of losing a child.

I did know a guy in college who was an olympic hopeful gymnast until he fell and broke his neck. He was in a wheelchair, and his Christian faith was very deep. He said many times, "being paralyzed was the greatest thing that ever happened to me because now I know the value of life and trust in God".

Sometimes, people who have suffered unbelievable and inexplicable losses say the oddest things, trying to make sense of their loss. Otherwise, just to think their loss was just a fluke, a "luck of the draw" is unfathomable. It's intolerable. The loss has to have a purpose.

And yet, we, and I feel that I can say "we" because so many of WS posters follow the very same crimes that I do, follow cases all the time where a child is murdered for the most flimsyist excuses that the perp can come up with.

 

[octobermoon]

Would you have investigated the source of that odor prior to getting into your steaming hot vehicle and driving for 10 minutes?

I think you would. Everyone would. Unless you already knew what it was.

I will take speculation one step further...what if his plan was to make it to drinks with the co workers and then do the big reveal but he just couldn't take the smell any more?

I respect everyone's point of view sincerely, but he was driving around with the overwhelming odor of his dead baby, no windows down and claimed the baby had just been choking when the body was in fixed rigor and blue/gray.

Really?

BBM I think you may be onto something!

 

[JeannaT]

Would you have investigated the source of that odor prior to getting into your steaming hot vehicle and driving for 10 minutes?

I think you would. Everyone would. Unless you already knew what it was.

I will take speculation one step further...what if his plan was to make it to drinks with the co workers and then do the big reveal but he just couldn't take the smell any more?

I respect everyone's point of view sincerely, but he was driving around with the overwhelming odor of his dead baby, no windows down and claimed the baby had just been choking when the body was in fixed rigor and blue/gray.

Really?

I don't think "everyone" would investigate an odor before driving off, it if weren't horrific.

I don't think anyone at this crime scene vomited except dear little Cooper. To me, that means the smell wasn't horrific. When people experience shock and a horrific smell, they often vomit.

So. To the bolded part, I'd say no. If he had planned ahead of time to kill his child and was on the way to make his dramatic appearance, after having successfully killed his baby, I don't think a little smell that didn't cause him to vomit would cause him to derail his dastardly plan and yank his car into a mall parking lot and rant and rave. That doesn't seem plausible to me.

I respect everyone's opinion also, and try to respond respectfully.

 

[SmartSassyBBW]

If I understood some of the issues with some cribs it was design ''flaw'



huge huge difference......no defect in the car manufacturer -but operator failure.

Cars come with alerts to remind you to fasten your seat belt. If a weight sensor can trigger a seat belt alarm maybe it could also trigger an alarm when the car is turned off and there is weight on the back seats?