GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #6

[LisaB]

I believe she was bought in for questioning the day it happened.

And again after the funeral.

 

[Chewy]

bbm yes.

Artiyka also believes the baby had been dead for many hours before Harris pulled the child out of the car.

'The baby was a grey/blue color, not its natural color. I know he was in the car seat but when the dad placed him on the ground his legs stayed in the same sitting position, as if he was laying on the ground with his knees up in the air stiff. It wasn't natural.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html

Just curious if someone can explain this to me. Why would the child look grey or blue?? Wouldn't all of their blood have drained to the bottom of the body?

 

[NancyA]

It's probably your experience in life, Chewy. You haven't seen premonition before.

I'm not going to tell personal stories, but I've seen people who had clear definable premonitions.

We don't know that dogs "smell" seizures. We don't know how cats find their owners across the country. We don't know how, we observe that it does happen, so good enough. It's empirical, it happens and we don't have to be able to explain it to believe it.

Good enough for me and premonitions. I'd have to be illogical, given what I've seen in my life, to deny they exist.

But maybe that's too much of a rabbit trail for this board, and I need to be off doing stuff this morning.

BBM. We do know - scientists, biologists and animal behaviourists have established and been able explain all of these phenomena for a very long time. Cats and dogs finding their way home is NOT premonition or anything supernatural - birds have this same navigation sense, it is to do with being able to sense the Earth's magnetic fields and thus find their way to familiar places from often vast distances. And animal ability to sense sickness is to do with their acutely enhanced and sensitive sense of smell which can pick up minute variations in body odour which might indicate anything from elevated or diminished blood sugar levels to bacterial infection to an excess of hormones.

 

[SStarr33]

Just curious if someone can explain this to me. Why would the child look grey or blue?? Wouldn't all of their blood have drained to the bottom of the body?

Somebody posted this last night:

JMO on "the smell" since it has come up again.
There would be no decomp smell after 7 hours. Skin would be gray/blue especially in legs and lower abdomen. The body would be in intermediate stages of rigor. Gases and fluids would be released when someone picked the toddler up, and WOULD be somewhat overwhelming after "CPR" was attempted. The toddler would have been in the beginning stages of "bloat" meaning that skin is still intact and trying to contain the building volume of gas and liquid from inside he body. So, the smell would have been more hydrogen sulfide and methane, and not so much "death" or decay.

The gases and fluid would look like vomit, and smell putrid after he body was disturbed and jostled, but not necessarily before. If the body temp was lower than the air temp (likely) and the AC was turned on, the body would "sweat" - its just thermodynamics.

The car would definitely smell worse AFTER the body was jostled that before. If gases (and especially liquids) were released while the toddler was being extracted from the car seat, and would be VERY noticeable. Even more noticeable if one cop told another "come smell this". That's just human nature.

again, IMO - there would be no smell associated with death at noon

Source - 30+ years in a hospital environment including morgue/death investigation activity. This included being on duty when a mother in denial brought he deceased baby to the ER because he would "not eat and kept spitting up and had really bad diarrhea"

 

[atthelake]

Great article packed with facts, if it is accurate info. Along with other things mentioned, it was the passenger's side door that he opened at lunch.

"Police said on Wednesday that Harris actually RETURNED to his car at lunch while at work to put something in the front passenger seat"


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html


More family pictures are here:

http://hollywoodlife.com/pics/justi...oss-cooper-harris-researched-baby-deaths-ftr/

the above link states
"A police warrant also revealed Wednesday that Harris took his son to breakfast at the Vinings Chick-fil-A before driving to work, and that he returned to the car at lunch time to place an object in the car before leaving the child again."........................."And early Wednesday, police said that 'during lunch said accused did access the same vehicle through the driver's side door to place an object into the vehicle', hours before the drama unfolded."

Respectfully disagree that the above link contains the quote that you have above.

ETA: BUUTTTTTTTTTT now I see that the "header" for the article does say "Police said on Wednesday that Harris actually RETURNED to his car at lunch while at work to put something in the front passenger seat" SORRY! Then again, I'm wondering if it's correct as the body of the article doesn't say that in the quotations from LE.

 

[jmcgladr]

Great point. The fact they supposedly had "a hard time conceiving" makes it even stranger!

In the case of an accidental pregnancy one could understand that statement (not at a funeral, of course), but in this case they apparently planned him! How stupid can people be?

Based on what we have seen so far they really sucked at planning things, they appear to NEVER think things through ahead of time! I have a feeling these folks are very very selfish.

Great points from both you and katydid. A bit of personal experience here. My ex and I had trouble conceiving at first, and had fertility treatments, at significant cost, to get pregnant with child #1, followed by a challenging high risk pregnancy. When our child was born healthy and full term, you'd think it would have been the most amazing thing in the world - and it was, for me - but that was the point at which our marriage started its downward trajectory. My ex was a narcissist, as I believe Ross is, and the baby changed things so he was no longer the major focus of the relationship. He had lots of complaints about how things had changed for him and how I should cater to his needs despite being the full time, exhausted caregiver to our son (while he took a job that had him traveling 2 weeks out of the month). When I unexpectedly became pregnant with child #2, my ex was in a funk for weeks on end. He was NOT happy about it, at all - but he did at least make an effort to seem like he was OK with it eventually. However, a few months after baby #2 was born, we were heading towards a divorce (initiated by him). We did couples counseling but eventually it came out that he just "didn't want to be married." Narcissists plus babies is a bad combination, in my experience.

 

[Spice]

Yeah we don't know how a handful of cats find their owners yet shelters are filled with hundreds of thousands of strays that don't.

Wishful thinking is seeing what you want to see and twisting the data to make it back up what you want to think, instead of looking at the facts to see what it shows.

I've had lots of "miracle moments" in my life. I can certainly understand why people think of them that way. But they are what's called a coincidence. You really want to argue that after hearing about a child being left in a car and getting worried that it might happened to you, it constitutes a "premonition?" How about it just constitutes common sense that when you hear about these stories in the news you look into them if you have little children.

Did all those people have premonitions? How strange that only RH's panned out. He must be special right?

When we don't "know" what happened the logical and honest answer is to say "we don't know" Not to attribute it to MAGIC!!!

I believe that there are psychics out there that truly have gifts. I also believe that there are a lot more liars than truly gifted psychics.

As far as people attributing tragedy or negative life events to the otherworldly.... I have worked with many clients that have horrible events occur in their lives, or have chronic problems and say things like "I'm throwing it up to God" or about their child that they have given up on due to bad behaviors "She's in God's hands now".

I am all for people having faith and finding strength in their very personal faith, but that kind of thinking is actually a problem in crisis'. I have seen it too many times. No. We can actively work toward progress and take actions to fix these things AND you can "throw it up to God." Plan A. Plan B. I have had to gently say this to people. Sometimes, people take away their own self determination and proactiveness with this line of thinking.

It really upsets me when things like "premonitions" and otherworldly acts are attributed to the horrific homicide of a child. Not negligent, involuntary, homicide, but criminal homicide at that.

This was not "God's Will".....this was "Ross' Will".

I find it insulting to the victim. :moo:

 

[Chewy]

BBM. We do know - scientists, biologists and animal behaviourists have established and been able explain all of these phenomena for a very long time. Cats and dogs finding their way home is NOT premonition or anything supernatural - birds have this same navigation sense, it is to do with being able to sense the Earth's magnetic fields and thus find their way to familiar places from often vast distances. And animal ability to sense sickness is to do with their acutely enhanced and sensitive sense of smell which can pick up minute variations in body odour which might indicate anything from elevated or diminished blood sugar levels to bacterial infection to an excess of hormones.

Exxxxxactly. Also just to note before, an animals sense of smell does explain why they can detect biological changes in a humans body.

 

[popsicle]

BBM. We do know - scientists, biologists and animal behaviourists have established and been able explain all of these phenomena for a very long time. Cats and dogs finding their way home is NOT premonition or anything supernatural - birds have this same navigation sense, it is to do with being able to sense the Earth's magnetic fields and thus find their way to familiar places from often vast distances. And animal ability to sense sickness is to do with their acutely enhanced and sensitive sense of smell which can pick up minute variations in body odour which might indicate anything from elevated or diminished blood sugar levels to bacterial infection to an excess of hormones.

Thank you. A premonition is something entirely different.

 

[LisaB]

The article says the searches took place before the 18th. That could be anytime before the 18th, IMHO, not necessarily in the days before. Have you seen a reputable source that it was in the few days before?

A source close to the investigation told 11Alive that the search had taken place before the day that their son died – a fact that could be used by prosecutors to show that the death was premeditated.

Ross Harris told authorities that he forgot to drop his son off at daycare before he went to work at Home Depot.

While Ross Harris is charged with felony murder and child cruelty, his wife has not been charged. Yet police say their investigation is far from over.

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/cr...ther/11807695/

 

[Linda7NJ]

That makes some sense, except they both said they researched because they had a fear of this happening to them.



Which I believe. I think a lot of people see danger coming at them before it's all the way there.

It's not paranormal.

Parents are supposed to foresee all sorts of dangers and protect their children from them.

Parents should have a fear their child may be hit by a car for example, take the steps necessary to prevent it by holding their hand in parking lots and crossing streets.




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[Elley Mae]

Just curious if someone can explain this to me. Why would the child look grey or blue?? Wouldn't all of their blood have drained to the bottom of the body?

It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

 

[Chewy]

I believe that there are psychics out there that truly have gifts. I believe that there are a lot more liars than truly gifted psychics.

It really upsets me when things like "premonitions" and otherworldly acts are attributed to the horrific homicide of a child. Not negligent, involuntary, homicide, but criminal homicide at that.

I find it insulting to the victim. :moo:

You should look up "cold reading." For years people thought I was "psychic" and knew things about them that I couldn't possibly have known. I was called an "old soul" for the longest time. When I grew up I realized that being hearing impaired I just paid a lot more attention to details about people than most people do when looking at them. My husband's always amazed at how I can read people.

I've often thought about going into work for Jury selection. I'd nail it. :floorlaugh:

 

[LisaB]

OK, many MSM sources are stating that he researched the topic. I can't link all of the sources here, pretty much all of them are stating it. Not gonna argue this point anymore. JMO

On several devices, in several locations, over (at least) a period of several hours. Both mom and dad. That sounds more consistent with research than idle curiosity.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I believe that there are psychics out there that truly have gifts. I believe that there are a lot more liars than truly gifted psychics.



It really upsets me when things like "premonitions" and otherworldly acts are attributed to the horrific homicide of a child. Not negligent, involuntary, homicide, but criminal homicide at that.



I find it insulting to the victim. :moo:

IMO there are no gifted psychics, or mediocre at ones either.




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[Karmady]

the above link states
"A police warrant also revealed Wednesday that Harris took his son to breakfast at the Vinings Chick-fil-A before driving to work, and that he returned to the car at lunch time to place an object in the car before leaving the child again."........................."And early Wednesday, police said that 'during lunch said accused did access the same vehicle through the driver's side door to place an object into the vehicle', hours before the drama unfolded."

Respectfully disagree that the above link contains the quote that you have above.

It's in the bold headers, I think. We've discussed this before and another poster found another place where the passenger seat business was picked up. I don't think the dailymail has any basis for it, though.

 

[Chewy]

It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

I'm a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff. What does this mean? I'm just wondering wouldn't his face be ghostly white from all the blood draining down into his lower extremities?

 

[Linda7NJ]

You should look up "cold reading." For years people thought I was "psychic" and knew things about them that I couldn't possibly have known. I was called an "old soul" for the longest time. When I grew up I realized that being hearing impaired I just paid a lot more attention to details about people than most people do when looking at them. My husband's always amazed at how I can read people.



I've often thought about going into work for Jury selection. I'd nail it. :floorlaugh:

You'd make a lot more bilking the gullible.
But I'm sure you have a conscious

All IMO


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[Judicious1]

From NG show last night- implies he wasn't in the habit of taking Cooper to school ...

GRACE: Is that right, Haisten Willis from "Marietta Daily Journal"? So that day that he was leaving work, he was going to go out and meet

friends for drinks and possibly a movie after work. Is that correct? Do we know where he was going? And also let me get this straight -- I just

heard Martin Savidge say this. Did he normally take the baby to day care or did they swap off?

WILLIS: I think he occasionally took the child to day care. But there are several bars in that area where he pulled off and discovered the

child. However, it`s at least a 10-minute drive from where he works. He would have had to forget the child for the length of the time he was

driving right up until he reached that shopping center, which is pretty busy, pretty crowded, where he pulled out.

 

[Linda7NJ]

From NG show last night- implies he wasn't in the habit of taking Cooper to school ...

GRACE: Is that right, Haisten Willis from "Marietta Daily Journal"? So that day that he was leaving work, he was going to go out and meet

friends for drinks and possibly a movie after work. Is that correct? Do we know where he was going? And also let me get this straight -- I just

heard Martin Savidge say this. Did he normally take the baby to day care or did they swap off?

WILLIS: I think he occasionally took the child to day care. But there are several bars in that area where he pulled off and discovered the

child. However, it`s at least a 10-minute drive from where he works. He would have had to forget the child for the length of the time he was

driving right up until he reached that shopping center, which is pretty busy, pretty crowded, where he pulled out.

So he often went to bars after work?

Doesn't sound like someone that's thrilled by his home life. IMO

Considering where the daycare is in relation to his job, why in the world wouldn't he do drop off all the time???

It makes no sense to me that he didn't. IMO

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