gaps in timeline

[passionflower]

So DB is caught on camera with Little Brother buying wine at approx. 5:00 pm.

JI leaves the house (for work?) sometime around 5:20.

Between 5:20 and 6:40, DB feeds Lisa, bathes Lisa and puts her to bed. (assuming she cared enough to bathe and feed this child, of course. Maybe that's a lie too, who knows?)

From 6:40 until 10:30, DB drinks with neighbor. Neighbor apparently leaves at 10:30.

Now, DB has previously said she was on the computer that night. So...did this occur AFTER 10:30? The computer is in the "second living room", where the window was open and the screen popped out...so did DB continue the party in the "second livingroom" after the neighbor left? Was she smoking something and that's the reason this window was left open? Did she try to shut it and fall against it, hence the reason the screen was screwy? Is this what one of the boys heard?

And...WHERE WAS LISA DURING ALL THIS?!

And what time did JI really get home that morning?

great post!

 

[marge_rita]

So DB is caught on camera with Little Brother buying wine at approx. 5:00 pm.

JI leaves the house (for work?) sometime around 5:20.

Between 5:20 and 6:40, DB feeds Lisa, bathes Lisa and puts her to bed. (assuming she cared enough to bathe and feed this child, of course. Maybe that's a lie too, who knows?)

From 6:40 until 10:30, DB drinks with neighbor. Neighbor apparently leaves at 10:30.

Now, DB has previously said she was on the computer that night. So...did this occur AFTER 10:30? The computer is in the "second living room", where the window was open and the screen popped out...so did DB continue the party in the "second livingroom" after the neighbor left? Was she smoking something and that's the reason this window was left open? Did she try to shut it and fall against it, hence the reason the screen was screwy? Is this what one of the boys heard?

And...WHERE WAS LISA DURING ALL THIS?!

And what time did JI really get home that morning?

:woot:

 

[LCoastMom]

So DB is caught on camera with Little Brother buying wine at approx. 5:00 pm.

JI leaves the house (for work?) sometime around 5:20.

Between 5:20 and 6:40, DB feeds Lisa, bathes Lisa and puts her to bed. (assuming she cared enough to bathe and feed this child, of course. Maybe that's a lie too, who knows?)

From 6:40 until 10:30, DB drinks with neighbor. Neighbor apparently leaves at 10:30.

Now, DB has previously said she was on the computer that night. So...did this occur AFTER 10:30? The computer is in the "second living room", where the window was open and the screen popped out...so did DB continue the party in the "second livingroom" after the neighbor left? Was she smoking something and that's the reason this window was left open? Did she try to shut it and fall against it, hence the reason the screen was screwy? Is this what one of the boys heard?

And...WHERE WAS LISA DURING ALL THIS?!

And what time did JI really get home that morning?

Are we taking DB's word for it that she waited until 6:40 to begin drinking? Why wait? She had the wine at her disposal beginning shortly after 5, would a sick toddler prevent her from cracking open that box?...she got so drunk that she doesn't remember if she locked up the house or checked on her baby...I'm guessing if she waited at all, she only waited until JI left for work at 5:20....

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Are we taking DB's word for it that she waited until 6:40 to begin drinking? Why wait? She had the wine at her disposal beginning shortly after 5, would a sick toddler prevent her from cracking open that box?...she got so drunk that she doesn't remember if she locked up the house or checked on her baby...I'm guessing if she waited at all, she only waited until JI left for work at 5:20....

I think I heard her say she started having a few glasses of wine "with dinner". I'm not convinced that there WAS dinner that night, but if that's true, I'd think she heated up something in the microwave, since jeremy left at 5:20, and 20 minutes isn't alot of time to cook dinner for 4+ people. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if Jeremy got stuck making dinner for the kids prior to leaving for work.

I dunno. She started drinking early in the evening, that's the best I can pin it down.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

I think it is fact that Deborah didn't drive, correct? That is why she had brother take her to the store around 5pm.

The neighbor can vouch for Deborah's whereabouts until later in the evening, right (around 9+pm?).

Assuming JI truly has an alibi for the hours preceding when he said he arrived home (at 4am?), if Deborah had disposed of Lisa somewhere, how did she do it by herself with no car? Better yet, how could she have done it so cleverly that the FBI, etc. can't find a trace of it? Is she so sinister that she could do this and then come home and pretend to be sleeping and innocent? Is she so sharp intellectually (I think not) that she wouldn't have been broken down in interrogation by now?

I just don't know, so I'm on the fence. The strange stealing baby story is too far fetched for me to believe too. I just do not think Deborah could do something with this child alone, and I think JI's alibi eliminates him from helping her. That leaves her brother, uncle, or another person that would help her. I would think that for 100k, even they would turn her in.

 

[katydid23]

The neighbor was there with her 4 yr old daughter. So it would surprise me that she was there until 10:30. Unless maybe her daughter was already asleep and she carried her home. But wouldn't she feel uncomfortable leaving a very drunk woman alone with 3 kids? That makes me wonder if she told someone about the worrisome situation when she took her daughter home.

Who was the father of the 4 yr old? Or did she have a bf or a roomate? Did she tell them that DI was drunk and alone with the kids?

 

[lonetraveler]

What I want to know is what time did Jeremy Irwin really get home? We know when he called 911 but when did he actually arrive at his house?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What I want to know is what time did Jeremy Irwin really get home? We know when he called 911 but when did he actually arrive at his house?

And...did he have to punch a time card, or do we just have to take his word for when he arrived home? Was on site with co-workers that night? What do they have to say?

 

[Debthree]

I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.

The boys don't seem to have a set time for bed which is odd considering they're both of school age and this was a school night. DB says that she put the boys to bed and then went to bed herself at 10.30pm. Isn't that late for two young boys? And it doesn't sound like it was a bed time routine, it sounds like they went to bed because she was going to bed. So if she went to bed at 11.30 is that when they would've gone too? Very strange.

I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? 6 & 8 year olds going to bed at 10.30pm on a school night? Mom drinking 5+ glasses of wine on an ordinary Monday night? Not checking Lisa after putting her down? Boy supposedly sleeping with a stray kitten (who would surely urinate or defecate in the bed?)? Door left unlocked? All unusual and not typical family stuff.

Mods, I'm sorry if this post doesn't fit here.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.

The boys don't seem to have a set time for bed which is odd considering they're both of school age and this was a school night. DB says that she put the boys to bed and then went to bed herself at 10.30pm. Isn't that late for two young boys? And it doesn't sound like it was a bed time routine, it sounds like they went to bed because she was going to bed. So if she went to bed at 11.30 is that when they would've gone too? Very strange.

I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? 6 & 8 year olds going to bed at 10.30pm on a school night? Mom drinking 5+ glasses of wine on an ordinary Monday night? Not checking Lisa after putting her down? Boy supposedly sleeping with a stray kitten (who would surely urinate or defecate in the bed?)? Door left unlocked? All unusual and not typical family stuff.

Mods, I'm sorry if this post doesn't fit here.

Well, I'm not a mod, but it fits perfectly here as far as I'm concerned. Excellent post, Deb. I'd forgotten about her saying that an hour after she put Lisa down she was standing up in her crib.

So...when was the last time she saw Lisa, again? If it was really 6:40, then she would have had to have put Lisa in her crib at 5:40. If she put Lisa to bed at 6:40, and Lisa was standing in her crib an hour later, then the last time she would have seen her is 7:40.

Which time is it?

 

[Minette]

I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.


I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? .

BBM

I posted this in another thread, but I do *not* believe that Lisa was necessarily put to bed in 'regular day clothes' because it was reported that she was wearing a short and t-shirt. Mods, please delete this bit if it goes against the rules, but I found this online offer for purple infant girl pajamas featuring shorts and a t-shirt in a kitten pattern pajamas: http://www.bestshoppingcenter.net/babieschildren/products.php?q=Cat+Short+Set+of+Two+Pajamas+for+Infant+and+Toddler+Girls Because an LE spokesperson described the outfit she was wearing in a certain way does NOT make it 100% certain that Lisa was wearing something other than pajamas. MOO.

 

[Debthree]

BBM

I posted this in another thread, but I do *not* believe that Lisa was necessarily put to bed in 'regular day clothes' because it was reported that she was wearing a short and t-shirt. Mods, please delete this bit if it goes against the rules, but I found this online offer for purple infant girl pajamas featuring shorts and a t-shirt in a kitten pattern pajamas: http://www.bestshoppingcenter.net/babieschildren/products.php?q=Cat+Short+Set+of+Two+Pajamas+for+Infant+and+Toddler+Girls Because an LE spokesperson described the outfit she was wearing in a certain way does NOT make it 100% certain that Lisa was wearing something other than pajamas. MOO.

That's a great point. I hadn't thought of that. And now that I think about it my boys have always actually preferred pajama shorts to long-leg pajamas (despite our freezing winters!). Having said that, even though they're short-sleeved and short-legs wouldn't they still have been described as pajamas by the people giving out the clothes description? Wouldn't that be important? But still it's definitely a great point and could well explain it.

 

[Debthree]

Well, I'm not a mod, but it fits perfectly here as far as I'm concerned. Excellent post, Deb. I'd forgotten about her saying that an hour after she put Lisa down she was standing up in her crib.

So...when was the last time she saw Lisa, again? If it was really 6:40, then she would have had to have put Lisa in her crib at 5:40. If she put Lisa to bed at 6:40, and Lisa was standing in her crib an hour later, then the last time she would have seen her is 7:40.

Which time is it?

According to People Magazine: "she put Lisa down in her room around 6:40 p.m., she says. Only once more soon afterward did she check on Lisa, finding her standing in her crib before tucking her back in." http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20537543,00.html

But according to Peter Alexander, in his interview today, he said: "Deborah now says she last saw her daughter when she put her to bed at 6.40pm".
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44927631#44927631

(Now I don't know where I got the info in my previous post that DB checked Lisa an hour after she put her to bed :waitasec

 

[Minette]

That's a great point. I hadn't thought of that. And now that I think about it my boys have always actually preferred pajama shorts to long-leg pajamas (despite our freezing winters!). Having said that, even though they're short-sleeved and short-legs wouldn't they still have been described as pajamas by the people giving out the clothes description? Wouldn't that be important? But still it's definitely a great point and could well explain it.

This may sound sexist, and if so I regret that, but.....if a male LE spokesperson described the outfit I think it would be different from how a female LE spokesperson would describe the same thing. I honestly can't say that my husband would differentiate between 'shortie pajamas' and 'shorts and a t-shirt' whereas I would. MOO.

 

[panthera]

Well, I'm not a mod, but it fits perfectly here as far as I'm concerned. Excellent post, Deb. I'd forgotten about her saying that an hour after she put Lisa down she was standing up in her crib.

So...when was the last time she saw Lisa, again? If it was really 6:40, then she would have had to have put Lisa in her crib at 5:40. If she put Lisa to bed at 6:40, and Lisa was standing in her crib an hour later, then the last time she would have seen her is 7:40.

Which time is it?

I believe the problem lies with DB not actually remembering when she last saw Lisa, therefore she is filling in the timeline with different stories. It appears obvious now why she failed the polygraph.

MOO

 

[iluvmua]

Would NOT surprise me if she is lying about what she said today.

 

[panthera]

Would NOT surprise me if she is lying about what she said today.

I do believe the is being truthful about being drunk. She was seen on the store surveillance buying the wine, so someone drank it. I can also see behavioral changes with some people with that level of intoxication. Who knows what happened in the house that night.



MOO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

In this video, around the 2:40 mark, JI tells the interviewer that the police said to him that maybe he did something in the 2 hours he was home. 2 HOURS?!

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/...-questions-caused-her-to-fail-polygraph-test/

 

[Wise Old Owl]

In this video, around the 2:40 mark, JI tells the interviewer that the police said to him that maybe he did something in the 2 hours he was home. 2 HOURS?!

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/...-questions-caused-her-to-fail-polygraph-test/

Yes, Mountain Kat - I caught that yesterday too. Not quite sure what that means. Again, and this is MY BIGGEST PET PEEVE of this case so far, we got no qualifiers to go with that.

2 hours he was home COULD MEAN

He had been home from work for 2 hours BEFORE calling 911. That would put him home at approx. 1:30 instead of the 3:30 time reported.

OR

He had worked a "regular" day that day as well. That would have been something like possibly 7 AM to 3 PM. Come home for 2 hours before leaving for the night shift. And this fits into the facts we have so far. That he was home at approx 5 PM and watching the kids while DB and bro go to the store - and that, finally, we have a time when he left for the night shift - 5:20. Getting home from day shift at 3:20.

OR

Was he only home that day for 2 hours all together? Maybe not working - but out doing something else? Maybe a side job? Maybe helping a relative with a home project or broken car or whatever?

Just another pesky tidbit that's been thrown out there and not necessarily clarified what was meant by it.

 

[keeponsearching]

I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.

The boys don't seem to have a set time for bed which is odd considering they're both of school age and this was a school night. DB says that she put the boys to bed and then went to bed herself at 10.30pm. Isn't that late for two young boys? And it doesn't sound like it was a bed time routine, it sounds like they went to bed because she was going to bed. So if she went to bed at 11.30 is that when they would've gone too? Very strange.

I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? 6 & 8 year olds going to bed at 10.30pm on a school night? Mom drinking 5+ glasses of wine on an ordinary Monday night? Not checking Lisa after putting her down? Boy supposedly sleeping with a stray kitten (who would surely urinate or defecate in the bed?)? Door left unlocked? All unusual and not typical family stuff.

Mods, I'm sorry if this post doesn't fit here.

I think Lisas bedtime was a good one for her age. Just because a baby is not tired does not mean she can stay up. I have not heard what time the boys went to bed. The stray kitten would wake up all night, for being its first night. I agree the night does not seem like the best night of routines, but not every night in my house is to the t with routine. My son likes to wear whatever to bed, my daughter to. My husband puts them to bed, so its up to him to put them in whatever.