GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1

[alioop]

It is because they can't date the blood or hair that they asked the girls if mummy had ever sat in the third row of seats that pop up from the boot space. And also if mummy had ever hurt herself. They are trying to show its unlikely that Allisons hair and blood got in the boot area prior to the night she went missing. They only had the captiva for a few weeks.

 

[DrWatson]

So, if the particular piece of hair found attached to the blood stain didn't happen to have a fresh foil in it, (or, like blood, if there is no way to tell whether a foil is that fresh or not), then I guess what we already know is all there is to know about the blood stain.

Hi RLTP

I don't know if the hair can be "aged" under the microscope, given that she had hair colouring the night before. That may well be possible, and may have been done - but I can't find any trace of that in any of the documents I have so far - although those were only the ones released from the bail hearings. The prosecution may well have other forensic evidence lined up that we haven't yet seen.

So while the blood itself can't be "aged" as far as I know, that may not apply to the hair. Here's hoping .....

 

[kiwijayne]

It is because they can't date the blood or hair that they asked the girls if mummy had ever sat in the third row of seats that pop up from the boot space. And also if mummy had ever hurt herself. They are trying to show its unlikely that Allisons hair and blood got in the boot area prior to the night she went missing. They only had the captiva for a few weeks.

Can I ask a question?

If say a witness is found to be lying while on the stand what happens? I'm not sure how it works here. Could it jeopardise the trial and get them charged with perjury?

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

Aliloop can you tell me with regard to defending someone accused of murder is it true that they say "don't tell me if you are guilty or innocent". Sorry my thoughts are a bit muddled but I've heard defence lawyers say this to their clients? So, I assume, the defence lawyer will be able to say with conviction my client did not do this crime??

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

It is because they can't date the blood or hair that they asked the girls if mummy had ever sat in the third row of seats that pop up from the boot space. And also if mummy had ever hurt herself. They are trying to show its unlikely that Allisons hair and blood got in the boot area prior to the night she went missing. They only had the captiva for a few weeks.

Thanks Alioop, that makes sense. So, I can stop wondering now. Obviously it wasn't a freshly foiled hair strand then. I'd been holding out hope because I heard that she'd had a full colour the week prior, so a freshly foiled strand would have told a story. sigh.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

Hi RLTP

I don't know if the hair can be "aged" under the microscope, given that she had hair colouring the night before. That may well be possible, and may have been done - but I can't find any trace of that in any of the documents I have so far - although those were only the ones released from the bail hearings. The prosecution may well have other forensic evidence lined up that we haven't yet seen.

So while the blood itself can't be "aged" as far as I know, that may not apply to the hair. Here's hoping .....

Thanks DrWatson. My theory had been that if the hair strand found had a foil in it (ie, was a different, lighter colour to the full colour that had been put in her hair the week prior), then it might tell us whether the hair (and therefore likely the blood that it was attached to as well) was from after her hair appt on the 19th. But if the hair was unable to be dated, like alioop said, then it blows my theory out of the water. Seems I was barking up a wrong tree. :blushing:

 

[LadyBird1]

The phone app showed that Allison's phone was at 61 Boscombe Road at the same time that Kellie Thompson and Sergeant Curtis were talking with GBC and showing him that "There it is!".
Scraps the dog lived at 61 Boscombe Road Brookfield. Scraps was going ballistic (for some unexplained reason) on the night of Allison's disappearance.
What was happening at 61 Boscombe Road (behind the BC residence) that would a usually quiet dog to be acting so unusually?

 

[IBR]

Thanks Alioop, that makes sense. So, I can stop wondering now. Obviously it wasn't a freshly foiled hair strand then. I'd been holding out hope because I heard that she'd had a full colour the week prior, so a freshly foiled strand would have told a story. sigh.

There my hope for some luck in regards to the strand goes... :-(

 

[Thinking]

My partner is in real estate and I asked him if it was common to vacuum homes they are selling. He said it does happen from time to time. Sometimes you have owners interstate or O/S. One of his colleagues was known to mow the lawn occasionally of one place he was selling. Most of the time they would recommend for owners to maintain and keep their places tidy I would think.

I guess sometimes it can mean the difference between a sale or not?

So doesn't happen every day, but he didn't think it was completely unusual. Just very unfortunate timing! That's the questionable part.

My thoughts are also that it is fairly feasible that GBC might have offered to water plants and vacuum a friends house which he was selling/leasing, I guess. Would it have been vacant and if so, why would vacuuming be required? If it was tenanted, wouldn't the tenants be required to vacuum?

All a bit strange - but the part I have most difficulty with is the timing. If NBC deemed the whole situation so urgent that he had to rush over to GBCs so early and they got police involved so early - why was it then suddenly so important that he vacuum a house that didn't need to be ready until the next day? Seems weird that this would suddenly become important when it wasn't really urgent.

 

[LadyBird1]

My partner is in real estate and I asked him if it was common to vacuum homes they are selling. He said it does happen from time to time. Sometimes you have owners interstate or O/S. One of his colleagues was known to mow the lawn occasionally of one place he was selling. Most of the time they would recommend for owners to maintain and keep their places tidy I would think.

I guess sometimes it can mean the difference between a sale or not?

So doesn't happen every day, but he didn't think it was completely unusual. Just very unfortunate timing! That's the questionable part.

Thanks Champagne4lulu for this post, re the real estate agent, odd jobs and cleaning. Another manoeuvre clarified. If it can happen an an odd occasion, then it can happen. Bang goes another technicality.

 

[Oz Jen]

Oh I have to tell someone my good news. It is OTT but noone I know is awake at this time.

I got engaged tonight lol in between being on here and other stuff. Some happy news for the day.

Just catching up! Your news really made me smile! Congratulations, KJ!! x

 

[kiwijayne]

Just catching up! Your news really made me smile! Congratulations, KJ!! x

Thanks.

 

[Thinking]

Well, it probably wouldn't prove that GBC interfered with ABC's body, but it would prove that ABC was bleeding in that area of the car at some point after she visited the hairdressers on the evening of the 19th. It would be pretty condemning circumstantial evidence imo.
But, if it was found that the hair was not recently dyed (or that the blood stain was older), the opposite would be true.

Edit: I recall the hairdresser saying she would do foils though, in which case, only part of her hair was dyed, which would then mean the opposite would not necessarily be true, just more likely. I'm also not sure whether tests would even be able to tell the difference between hair that was coloured that day or four or five days prior either.

Would the defence need to provide an alternate story for the blood eg saying Allison injured herself a fortnight before she died, cut herself while loading groceries into the boot eg - or are they likely to remain silent on the point I wonder?

 

[louisepiglet]

My thoughts are also that it is fairly feasible that GBC might have offered to water plants and vacuum a friends house which he was selling/leasing, I guess. Would it have been vacant and if so, why would vacuuming be required? If it was tenanted, wouldn't the tenants be required to vacuum?

All a bit strange - but the part I have most difficulty with is the timing. If NBC deemed the whole situation so urgent that he had to rush over to GBCs so early and they got police involved so early - why was it then suddenly so important that he vacuum a house that didn't need to be ready until the next day? Seems weird that this would suddenly become important when it wasn't really urgent.

Yes, Yes, Yes. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Thinking]

Thanks.

Congratulations kiwijayne

 

[possumheart]

Looking at the photos, I think it would be pretty hard getting into the LHS of the bed with the treadmill, but this may just be the way the photos are taken, truncating distance. Not a nice thing to look at first thing in the morning ...
I should probably have a better look but I couldn't see the sleep apnea device. The way Phillip Broom described GBC's snoring, all females in the house would be good sleepers if he didn't use the machine and snored away ... But then a few conference drinks would make all the difference, especially red wine, so maybe it was just Phillip's misfortune and a combination of things that led to him copping an earful.

 

[JAM13]

The phone app showed that Allison's phone was at 61 Boscombe Road at the same time that Kellie Thompson and Sergeant Curtis were talking with GBC and showing him that "There it is!".
Scraps the dog lived at 61 Boscombe Road Brookfield. Scraps was going ballistic (for some unexplained reason) on the night of Allison's disappearance.
What was happening at 61 Boscombe Road (behind the BC residence) that would a usually quiet dog to be acting so unusually?

Either she was found walking there after the argument and Gerard 'picked her up' and quickly disposed of the phone in the surrounding area before heading to Kholo Creek

Or

After her body was dumped at Kholo Creek GBC stopped by the random house and disposed of the phone in a hurried attempt to hide it before he arrived home.

That's all I can really think of IMO.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

Would the defence need to provide an alternate story for the blood eg saying Allison injured herself a fortnight before she died, cut herself while loading groceries into the boot eg - or are they likely to remain silent on the point I wonder?

The silence about a lot of things is what has confused me about this case the most. A lot of the things that others thought to be odd or weird behaviours, have seemed perfectly ordinary and explainable to me - yet there seems to have been no explanation given (which is the bit I find to be very odd).
Darned sure if I was potentially going to be holed up in jail if I didn't give an explanation for something, I'd spill the beans - even if it was something I really didn't want made public knowledge.
The same goes for the defense during the trial. I understand that they don't have to prove innocence, that it's up to the prosecution to prove guilt - but sheesh - if you have info that gets you off the hook (even if it makes you look like a bit of a mongrel), wouldn't you just blurt it? :waitasec:

 

[DunnoZo]

Looking at the photos, I think it would be pretty hard getting into the LHS of the bed with the treadmill, but this may just be the way the photos are taken, truncating distance. Not a nice thing to look at first thing in the morning ...
I should probably have a better look but I couldn't see the sleep apnea device. The way Phillip Broom described GBC's snoring, all females in the house would be good sleepers if he didn't use the machine and snored away ... But then a few conference drinks would make all the difference, especially red wine, so maybe it was just Phillip's misfortune and a combination of things that led to him copping an earful.

I looked for the apnea machine too. If he did use it, which I doubt, it would record dates and times..

 

[marlywings]

Hi RLTP

I don't know if the hair can be "aged" under the microscope, given that she had hair colouring the night before. That may well be possible, and may have been done - but I can't find any trace of that in any of the documents I have so far - although those were only the ones released from the bail hearings. The prosecution may well have other forensic evidence lined up that we haven't yet seen.

So while the blood itself can't be "aged" as far as I know, that may not apply to the hair. Here's hoping .....

As far as I recall we've not heard any further about the strand of hair found in the blood. I've no doubts at all it would have been tested for colouring/dye.

On day 2 of trial it was mentioned Allison went to hairdresser as she felt her hair was too red. The hair found in boot was blonde.

June 23, 2012

An examination of Baden-Clay's car, leased just eight weeks earlier, found blood in the rear boot section and a blonde hair, the police claim in their opposition to bail. The hair is still undergoing examination, the court documents say. The blood came back as belonging to Allison, the court was told.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/police-file-on-baden-clay/story-fn6ck45n-1226406004247
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Trial day 2....

3.00pm: The 11th witness is Elizabeth Scully, a rental area coordinator who worked at Century 21 Westside

She said Ms Baden-Clay planned to go to the hairdresser because her hair was ``too red’’.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226950152264
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3.15pm: The 13th witness in the trial is Monique Waymouth who worked at the Kenmore Saloon of Epic Hair Designs.

She said Allison Baden-Clay came in for a hair colour treatment on April 19, 2012.

She said she told her she wanted it to be more ``blended’’.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226950152264