GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
I imagine the situation as follows:
Toni has attended the conference until lunchtime, hasn't seen Allison but Kate. She knows, she urgently had demanded GBC to hold of Allison going to the conference. But she knows her lover and is doubting, whether he should have been able to prevent his wife of participation and how. Toni doesn't know precisely, whether Allison suddenly would be "standing on the mat" or not. Toni wants to learn, what is going on and calls GBC.
Toni is asking the correct questions: Allison isn't here - why? What happened? Had you an arguement?
IF Toni would know, then she wouldn't ask the last question.
Later on Toni finds out: lover's wife is missed, he hadn't done anything, he doesn't know what happened, he's loving her, both shall lay low.
"Lay low" he hadn't to tell on phone, if GBC had had a special murder plan together with Toni. - GBC told Toni to fell in love with someone other - that also doesn't fit, if Toni knew more.
I hope, 5 statements of Toni are enough to learn the truth finally.

IMO IMO IMO

Does something makes sense?


I'm very much inclined to agree with you. I think that, when Allison didn't attend the conference, TM assumed that Gered had done as she demanded and insisted that Allison not go, and Allison had complied. However, had that been the case, Gered should have put TM's mind at rest by phoning her early and letting her know that she could attend the conference unimpeded. He doesn't seem to have done this. IMO, Gered realised that any call to TM at that time would be incriminating.

IMO, TM's other reason for phoning was to hear the delightfully gory details of how Gered had thwarted Allison, and hence placed TM on the pedestal she so desired. TM would have seen this as a powerful sign that Allison was on her way out, and she (TM) was going to get her man (vomit) to herself finally.

I really don't think that TM had an active involvement in Allison's murder; nor do I think that she was aware that Gered had murdered Allison.
 
BBM.
This has been my main bone of contention with TM. I mentioned the same thing ages ago so thanks Trooper for bringing it up again.

GBC and TM had been so careful not to phone each other because Allison was monitoring GBC's phone. Why then, on the day that Allison is reported missing, does TM throw caution to the wind and phone GBC, knowing full well that Allison would see that call when she eventually returned home? Allison could have been standing right next to GBC when TM called. Allison may have even answered the call. Why was TM so reckless? Was it out of concern for Allison? I don't think so.

TM knew that Allison wasn't coming home.
TM knew that Allison wasn't missing.
TM knew that Allison was dead.

She said in her testimony ,they had a small window of opportunity to speak, when Alison picked up the kids from school.. on foot, if Olivia is to be believed , which no one ever saw her do, ...

but this call wasn't at pickup time.. it was lunchtime...

I had a theory early that she was so excited.. she'd had a win, a small win, but in a lifetime of loosing, it counts.. .. she had drawn the boundaries, she had laid the law down, and Gerard and Alison had jumped to it.. the thrill must have been overwhelming.. how she waited until lunchtime, I do not know.. and that's why she rang.. in an excess of sentimental affirmation of 'their love'.she throws caution to the wind.. . *gag* ... he had affirmed it, she rings to acknowledge it. '.. 'scuse me.. * gag again* ...

but the more I look at the whole scenario the weirder it gets.. if Toni didn't want to bang into Alison, I can imagine that Gerard didn't want any meeting of Toni and Alison to take place either.. even more so specially with Toni in a rage. Who knows what she might blurt out in fury?? Could Alison be trusted to behave under those circumstances?? So he had a stake in Alison not going as much as Toni did , probably a bigger stake is how I see it.
 
I wonder if it ever crossed Allison's mind, during those final weeks, that her life may be in danger?

I hope, not! And I think, Allison knew there was little to no money, but she didn't know about the whole debts and repayable dates.
 
I imagine the situation as follows:
Toni has attended the conference until lunchtime, hasn't seen Allison but Kate. She knows, she urgently had demanded GBC to hold of Allison going to the conference. But she knows her lover and is doubting, whether he should have been able to prevent his wife of participation and how. Toni doesn't know precisely, whether Allison suddenly would be "standing on the mat" or not. Toni wants to learn, what is going on and calls GBC.
Toni is asking the correct questions: Allison isn't here - why? What happened? Had you an arguement?
IF Toni would know, then she wouldn't ask the last question.
Later on Toni finds out: lover's wife is missed, he hadn't done anything, he doesn't know what happened, he's loving her, both shall lay low.
"Lay low" he hadn't to tell on phone, if GBC had had a special murder plan together with Toni. - GBC told Toni to fell in love with someone other - that also doesn't fit, if Toni knew more.
I hope, 5 statements of Toni are enough to learn the truth finally.

IMO IMO IMO

Does something makes sense?

I didn't say that TM assisted GBC to physically murder Allison. What I said was that she knew after the fact that Allison wasn't coming home, that she was dead. She knew before she went to the conference that Allison was dead!

Kate Rankin did not attend the conference.

BBM: This is what TM told the police she said to GBC. I don't believe that is what she said to GBC at all. She had to make a total of five statements before she could get the truth straight and even then I doubt that she was totally honest with the police. GBC may have said they had to "lay low" but that was in regard to the two of them not being seen together etc. Yet they still had their little tryst at a block of units about a week before GBC was arrested. He knew by that time that he was the prime suspect in Allison's murder. Why the cloak and dagger stuff of travelling to the block of units in a taxi, in silence no less? What did they talk about that couldn't be said at TM's place, in their respective cars or at Nigelaine's place? Were these places bugged. GBC and TM thought they were and so do I.
 
And there is still the question of whether or not the three girls were left totally alone in the house for a couple of hours..... Or not???

CRIMINAL CODE - SECT 364A

364A Leaving a child under 12 unattended
(1) A person who, having the lawful care or charge of a child under 12 years, leaves the child for an unreasonable time without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child during that time commits a misdemeanour.

Maximum penalty—3 years imprisonment.

(2) Whether the time is unreasonable depends on all the relevant circumstances.

So, DW, I'm guessing he will also be charged with a SECT 364A
:floorlaugh:
 
CRIMINAL CODE - SECT 364A

364A Leaving a child under 12 unattended
(1) A person who, having the lawful care or charge of a child under 12 years, leaves the child for an unreasonable time without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child during that time commits a misdemeanour.

Maximum penalty—3 years imprisonment.

(2) Whether the time is unreasonable depends on all the relevant circumstances.

So, DW, I'm guessing he will also be charged with a SECT 364A
:floorlaugh:

I always wondered if one of his family was at the house? Who better to calm and quiet the children if they wake up? Then next day they could make out it was a dream to the children.
 
She said in her testimony ,they had a small window of opportunity to speak, when Alison picked up the kids from school.. on foot, if Olivia is to be believed , which no one ever saw her do, ...

but this call wasn't at pickup time.. it was lunchtime...

I had a theory early that she was so excited.. she'd had a win, a small win, but in a lifetime of loosing, it counts.. .. she had drawn the boundaries, she had laid the law down, and Gerard and Alison had jumped to it.. the thrill must have been overwhelming.. how she waited until lunchtime, I do not know.. and that's why she rang.. in an excess of sentimental affirmation of 'their love'.she throws caution to the wind.. . *gag* ... he had affirmed it, she rings to acknowledge it. '.. 'scuse me.. * gag again* ...

but the more I look at the whole scenario the weirder it gets.. if Toni didn't want to bang into Alison, I can imagine that Gerard didn't want any meeting of Toni and Alison to take place either.. even more so specially with Toni in a rage. Who knows what she might blurt out in fury?? Could Alison be trusted to behave under those circumstances?? So he had a stake in Alison not going as much as Toni did , probably a bigger stake is how I see it.

bbm

Yes, Trooper! I think, both women would have told one to another one lie after another from their beloved Ger-red/GM and then all his plans would have ended in a disaster already, additional very public.
 
Since I am inclined to believe the Qld Police on this issue, that Gerard did indeed interfere with Alisons corpse at the Kholo Bridge, it is reasonable to believe that at some stage .. either..

Gerard left them alone in the house while he does the drop.. or...

Someone else does the drop.. or..

Someone minds the girls while he does the drop.. there are no alternatives..

it is beyond rationale to believe that he took the girls with him . ..

and that drop of Alison's corpse was done that night or in the dark hours of the morning.
 
I imagine the situation as follows:
Toni has attended the conference until lunchtime, hasn't seen Allison but Kate. She knows, she urgently had demanded GBC to hold of Allison going to the conference. But she knows her lover and is doubting, whether he should have been able to prevent his wife of participation and how. Toni doesn't know precisely, whether Allison suddenly would be "standing on the mat" or not. Toni wants to learn, what is going on and calls GBC.
Toni is asking the correct questions: Allison isn't here - why? What happened? Had you an arguement?
IF Toni would know, then she wouldn't ask the last question.
Later on Toni finds out: lover's wife is missed, he hadn't done anything, he doesn't know what happened, he's loving her, both shall lay low.
"Lay low" he hadn't to tell on phone, if GBC had had a special murder plan together with Toni. - GBC told Toni to fell in love with someone other - that also doesn't fit, if Toni knew more.
I hope, 5 statements of Toni are enough to learn the truth finally.

IMO IMO IMO

Does something makes sense?

It's wonderful to have you on board all the way from a small town in Northern Germany. Thanks for you support.
 
Since I am inclined to believe the Qld Police on this issue, that Gerard did indeed interfere with Alisons corpse at the Kholo Bridge, it is reasonable to believe that at some stage .. either..

Gerard left them alone in the house while he does the drop.. or...

Someone else does the drop.. or..

Someone minds the girls while he does the drop.. there are no alternatives..

it is beyond rationale to believe that he took the girls with him . ..

and that drop of Alison's corpse was done that night or in the dark hours of the morning.

What if OW wasn't staying at the parents house but was at the BC house all night?
 
I'm very much inclined to agree with you. I think that, when Allison didn't attend the conference, TM assumed that Gered had done as she demanded and insisted that Allison not go, and Allison had complied. However, had that been the case, Gered should have put TM's mind at rest by phoning her early and letting her know that she could attend the conference unimpeded. He doesn't seem to have done this. IMO, Gered realised that any call to TM at that time would be incriminating.

IMO, TM's other reason for phoning was to hear the delightfully gory details of how Gered had thwarted Allison, and hence placed TM on the pedestal she so desired. TM would have seen this as a powerful sign that Allison was on her way out, and she (TM) was going to get her man (vomit) to herself finally.

I really don't think that TM had an active involvement in Allison's murder; nor do I think that she was aware that Gered had murdered Allison.

*snap* bobbie.
 
I always wondered if one of his family was at the house? Who better to calm and quiet the children if they wake up? Then next day they could make out it was a dream to the children.

Could he risk anyone being inside the house? Even if the children had woken and been reassured by EBC (for example), the possibility of them mentioning it later couldn't be ruled out (although the "debrief" procedure might have taken care of that). Safer to have someone watching from outside the house, maybe.

Then again, he may thought it was safe to leave them for a while. Normally Brookfield is pretty safe.
 
Could he risk anyone being inside the house? Even if the children had woken and been reassured by EBC (for example), the possibility of them mentioning it later couldn't be ruled out (although the "debrief" procedure might have taken care of that). Safer to have someone watching from outside the house, maybe.

Then again, he may thought it was safe to leave them for a while. Normally Brookfield is pretty safe.

Brookfield is very safe.

But it could be easily explained by children and their vivid imaginations. I'm pretty sure they would have found a way around it.
 
BBM for emphasis..





well, Stell , that's my fave bit, really.. it's where one is truly obligated to suspend any logic at all. Let's enter into the Gerard/Toni sphere of thought for a few seconds..



She has completely done her block at him not 18 hours previously.. her words.. ' I lost it, I was in a rage , '... she pretends she is interested in Alisons actual welfare, to boot, by stating that Alison deserves to know she, Toni, will be there.. like, as if.. What Alison deserves from both Toni and Gerard has not exactly been a driving force up until that moment , but let's take it on it's face..



She leaves Gerard with the ultimatum. Alison isn't to go .. I presume that Toni means that merely by Gerard telling Alison Toni will be there will do the trick.. that Alison wont go, and she , Toni will be free to enjoy this conference, which from her statements all up, conferences seem to be the highlight of her life.. all that buzz and backslapping etc.. they meant a lot to her.



Does Gerard trudge home and lay this news out on Alison?? I very much doubt it. Doubt if he had told Alison by 8.3pm because Alison is calmly speaking with Olivia re a sleepover .. Alison hasn't rung Kate Rankin to cancel their arrangement to meet the next morning ( Gerard is out of the loop about this particular meeting ) .. and at no time does Alison ring Kate to cancel, not then, not later ,and not when she gets up early to 'go for a walk'. Of course, now we know she couldn't. She was dead.



So Toni , obviously, goes to the conference.. has Gerard rang her to tell her to suck it up , Alison just wouldn't co-operate and Toni will have to deal with it? or.. I tried, Toni, but I just couldn't get it across without dropping you in it.?? or.. .bad luck , GG , can you pretend to be ill and not go??



not a bit of it. And they have the means to contact each other by phone, but this call that isn't made is equivalent to the dog that didn't bark in the night..



Toni knows two people from Gerards office are going to it. ..the evening before she even had advice to Gerard about how he can afford to send two. She rings Gerard, she says, at the lunch break from the conference, this is about 1pm ( Gerard is mid burble with detectives ) to tell him Alison isn't at the conference.. no mention of why Kate Rankin isn't at it from Toni.. just Alison.. From Toni's position, realistically, both Kate Rankin and Alison are 'missing'...



If Alison isn't at the conference,.. where does Toni think she is? and why does she take the risk to ring Gerard to tell him?? She told him that Alison wasn't to go, so what's the mystery to Toni? Alison could be standing right next to him as far as Toni should know.. right at his elbow, if she isn't at the conference, surely this is such a peculiar risk to take at this stage of their entwinement... Alison could be right there in his office, leaning over his desk, or in the car with him showing property now that she has agreed to not go to the conference, why does Toni take this enormous risk in ringing Gerard at that time ?



unless she actually DID get a call from Gerard which neither are mentioning... a quick buzz before all this police stuff, or a call from someone else on the sly, who isn't being scrutinised as closely as Gerard is that morning.. unless she already knows that Alison is 'missing'..



Like you, I cant see Toni girding her girlish loins in happy anticipation of the great time she is going to have at the conference with this conundrum still unresolved, and serenely turning up at the seminar, flags flying.. Just cant see that at all.


I love you trooper. Just saying.
 
What if OW wasn't staying at the parents house but was at the BC house all night?

Yes Kiwijayne OW was not present for the "fairly short" dinner of sausages because she had been out to dinner herself only arriving home about the time she received the call from Allison's phone 8.28pm. Unless she didn't leave for her dinner date until about 6.30pm to 7.00pm.

It surprises me that EBC is not a witness, I would have assumed she cooked the sausage helped with supervision of children.
 
It's wonderful to have you on board all the way from a small town in Northern Germany. Thanks for you support.

I'm waiting (geographically Hamburg/Bremen, if you know?) with you all on justice for Allison. :smile:
Thanks!!


Allison or Alison - how is it correct?
 
Originally Posted by JAM13 View Post
Part 2 of my thoughts and feelings of the last 2 pages of the bail application.

Snipped respectfully by me:

28. Police have obtained a witness statement from a woman who cared for the children on 26 April 2012. One of the children, Sarah, stated that "I am sorry I know I am not allowed to say anything until the debrief at night". (At this girls age, I wouldn't have had any idea about what a 'debrief' was. This is quite strange.)


I agree Jam that this childs' statement is horrifyingly astounding........BCs are very very scary to have imprinted the girls initially with this language.

I wonder why this has not yet come up? That to me screams of witness tampering and perverting the course of justice. It puts in question absolutely everything those poor girls have said to date and reflects very poorly on GBC.

I told my partner about that comment and he said it could be reference to talking to the girls about what they have seen or heard on TV, from their friends etc. they may have a time set aside to talk through all that and alleviate their concerns.

I'm not sure I agree with that at all. I just think it's very suss.
 
I always wondered if one of his family was at the house? Who better to calm and quiet the children if they wake up? Then next day they could make out it was a dream to the children.

Nige was happy to watch over the sleeping children the night before when GeRed took Allison for a coffee. (?).
Nige said he wasn't aware when they arrived home because he was engrossed in a TV show.
What would be difference if he was asked the same favour the next night and it was only GeRed who walked through the door, would he notice?
Small details omitted.
 
I'm waiting (geographically Hamburg/Bremen, if you know?) with you all on justice for Allison. :smile:
Thanks!!


Allison or Alison - how is it correct?

:wave:

The first one FromGermany, Allison :)
 
Since I am inclined to believe the Qld Police on this issue, that Gerard did indeed interfere with Alisons corpse at the Kholo Bridge, it is reasonable to believe that at some stage .. either..

Gerard left them alone in the house while he does the drop.. or...

Someone else does the drop.. or..

Someone minds the girls while he does the drop.. there are no alternatives..

it is beyond rationale to believe that he took the girls with him . ..

and that drop of Alison's corpse was done that night or in the dark hours of the morning.

Ipso Facto Gered gets further charged as per Aunty's post, or someone else gets charged for being an accessory to murder....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
163
Guests online
997
Total visitors
1,160

Forum statistics

Threads
626,019
Messages
18,519,039
Members
240,919
Latest member
SleuthyBootsie
Back
Top