GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[they'll get you]

Gee whiz ..... from memory, my estimate would be from about 35 yrs to about 60 yrs!

Thanx I'm just thinking of maturity.

 

[kiwijayne]

Be verrrrry careful kiwi because there is a murderer on the loose around your parts!

:hills:

I think I will be ok lol

 

[AAAA]

Yeah GBC is just a real treasure isn't he? Why in hell didn't he get Allison out of Switzerland when there was a real chance of an avalanche and she was rightfully terrified. I know I would have been! Nup, GBC wonderful husband that he is, chooses instead to 'cover' for Allison while she is 'feeling unwell'. :banghead:

Yep, he's a real Stuart Diver. Or should I say McGyver? He can do anything... Except breastfeed dammit!!!! Much have been such a feeling of failure to him.

 

[buzzinjess]

Buzzinjess, this has often crossed my mind and is plausible IMO. I don't think either of Nigelaine's vehicles were ever forensically tested but I could be wrong. I do recall reading somewhere recently though that GBC said that police did not immediately release NBC's car from the Brookfield house on 20 April - the day GBC reported Allison missing. If the police did in fact forensically test NBC's car, it has never been mentioned as far as I know.

Realistically though, if you had a dead body in one car, why would you then move it to another car? But who's to say whether or not the BC's have a realistic grab on on anything?

Yeah.. It doesnt make much sense as to why someone would do it unless they foresaw that it the police may not suspect it?

 

[Makara]

With regards to how the blood got into the rear of the car I have a theory which probably won't sit well with some but I'll put it out there as food for thought anyway. As someone who has suffered depression & anxiety and also an abusive relationship and has needed to know the absolute nitty gritty of infidelities, & the fact that Alison had questioned all of the finer details of GBC's affair even down to asking him to draw a floorplan of TMcH's place, I think that it is a possibility that she has asked to have sex in the back of the car as per his trysts with TMcH and this is where it has turned violent. Whilst someone may need to know the details the reality dredges up a lot of pain & anger as well. This could very well account for the blood trail whilst the seats were in the down position, the scratch marks of a scorned woman & the consequent death of Alison. Just a theory...

Sydneygal, what you're saying isn't beyond the realms of possibility but Allison's blood was found in the Captiva. GBC apparently conducted his trysts with TM in the Prado. So if Allison wanted to play out that scenario, one would think that she'd want to do it in the Prado. Yes?

 

[volunteer]

Okay I have 2speak up here. Panic attacks rarely cause fainting as the very nature of a panic attack is a significant rise in blood pressure. The " feeling " is like you are going to faint. I have spent $1000's on psychologist for this very problem! I am convinced I will faint during a panic attack and more specifically whilst driving. The natural reaction is to breath faster and deeper thereby putting too much O2 in your cells so you get all tingly and breathless - wierd stuff. As well, I hate all this emphasis on her not being able to drive. When you read info about anxiety and panic included in the top 4 or 5 biggest fears is driving, being left alone, confined spaces etc. I had a terrible time driving my kids to school last year because of this anxiety (lost count of the number of times i turned the car around and went home when I saw a traffic jam at our intersection) and would rather have had my very unsympathetic husband for company than be on my own at home! There ARE cases where fainting and panic coincide tbut here is usually an underlying condition of anemia or some other deficit in minerals in the body.

Just my input from a zoloft taking, panic prone, mother of young kids with a husband who has a snap out of attitude to anxiety and depression.....

I agree 100% with the "not fainting " in a panic attack. I had them for a while many years ago, and because of the sensation that you are going to faint or worse still, die, you panic. But you never in fact pass out.

 

[AAAA]

Did the ladies she spoke to ever come forward to corroborate this?

Good to hear from you KJ.

 

[Thinking]

Sorry if this has already been asked or mentioned/answered....I'm playing catch up again.

Alioop: When do you expect the trial to finish??

I'm trying to swap my night shifts for this Sun, Mon & Tues ( so far successfully got rid of sun & mon night!!! Yay......working on Tues night :blushing: )

I Will owe a few work mates some favors after this is over ( yes they all think I'm obsessed when I had to explain why I wanted to swap the shifts :blushing: )

I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) can totally relate drsleuth

 

[Makara]

Yep, he's a real Stuart Diver. Or should I say McGyver? He can do anything... Except breastfeed dammit!!!! Much have been such a feeling of failure to him.

I'm glad you changed that to McGyver. Stuart is a friend.

 

[Couldbe]

Buzzinjess, this has often crossed my mind and is plausible IMO. I don't think either of Nigelaine's vehicles were ever forensically tested but I could be wrong. I do recall reading somewhere recently though that GBC said that police did not immediately release NBC's car from the Brookfield house on 20 April - the day GBC reported Allison missing. If the police did in fact forensically test NBC's car, it has never been mentioned as far as I know.

Realistically though, if you had a dead body in one car, why would you then move it to another car? But who's to say whether or not the BC's have a realistic grab on on anything?

..... GBC said yesterday, that they had never ever left the children home by themselves. Wonder if just be missing for say 15 to 20 mins while they were in their beds 'all tuckered out' and fast asleep would constitute being left home by themselves! He might think that just being down underneath the house would not be a lot different to a quick trip away for 15 mins or so!

 

[silverau]

Good points Silver

OK so this just made me think of some more specific mechanics, running with a few assumptions, that
(a) the blood came from her head/face (most likely spot for bleeding and possible site of some soft tissue injuries)
(b) he carried her out (i don't see the need for dragging - not that heavy) - fireman's lift over shoulder is easiest

If you were facing the open back of a 4WD, with a body over your right shoulder (the natural spot for R-handed person), you'd lean in, sit the lower part of the body down, then lean forward a bit more to let the top of the body fall back to lie flat.
However a limp body is hard to control unless you're used to it, and would fall a lot harder than you'd expect with this manoeuvre, which could explain:
(a) the thud heard by neighbour (said something like "sounded like a sack of potatoes")
(b) blood (from new or earlier facial injury) running out onto inside of right rear door (which would be the front part of the flat back area with the seats down) as the head turns to face the door (following the momentum of being laid down/falling back).

<modsnip>

Doesn't look like a large amount of blood - a few ml would be enough - but it has run out quickly, moving horizontally along the side of the flattened seat and running down.
Something like a graze to the head wouldn't do this, it would just smear, or ooze slowly and clot before it moved too far. Which is why I think a small collection of blood (from a bitten tongue or similar) has run from nose/mouth as the head turned sideways. (btw it's quite common for fluid to run out of the mouth of unconscious people when their head is turned to the side - one of the safety reasons for positioning unconscious people on their sides in the first place)

Also, while on this photo, I wonder if forensics checked the side of the seat for blood (the part of the seat-back that would have been against the car door when the seats were flattened). Because on the photo there you can see where the seat back was down at the time and the blood was absorbed by the cloth upholstery (from the top of the "HC 1" sticker up to the horizontal blood line, where there's just a faint, wider-spread smear in the middle of the blood trail running down).

But regardless, I think that blood shows that it was deposited when the seats were flattened, and not the sort of thing you could get from say, hitting your knee while sitting the back seat. So if they tried to argue that Allison left her blood on the door at some other random time, they'd have to explain what she was doing bleeding in there with the back seats down.

(and no, I don't go around hiding people in cars in my spare time, but I have spent a good deal of my professional life moving human bodies in varying levels of consciousness)


<modsnip>

I agree with everything here,,making sense except for the lifting bit. Gerard appears not very strong nor fit. Al was about 70kgs. In a panic I guess he could lift her with all that adrenilin but she could have been floppy,and would there of been a large enough space to fireman lift her into that door? (carport/fence).

A question just popped into my head,were there streetlights nearby??

 

[sfb7]

Hi another long time lurker.

It has always bugged me why his dad was taking a vacuum cleaner and hose away. Then someone just posted "BTW I'm still amazed there was no blood transfer or kholo dirt to door handles, gear shift or steering wheel"

I reckon they've used the hose to clean the car of dirt and were getting rid of it to say they didn't own a hose???
Did they ever test the contents of the vacuum cleaner?

 

[Freya1977]

What's everyone's gut feeling on this? I'm still thinking he's going down.... Maybe hoping a little too much....

Before he took the stand I had doubts, but i think it will be his undoing. I feel the jury will be removed of reasonable doubt after his performance and I don't think x-exam will be very pretty. Here's hoping he goes down!

 

[Freya1977]

If he didn't do it, I'd love to know why he's not once demanded his wife's real killer to be brought to justice. If someone disappeared and was missing you wouldn't think they'd committed suicide, you'd think she'd been taken. That's damning IMO.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[BJsleuth]

You aren't referring to when he woke a sleeping child to put a bandaid over his "shaving" gash?
Arghhh! That one has been playing over in my head all day. What a "man"' ....not.
<modsnip>
Is he forcing an innocent child to be part of his evil criminal scheme?

No. This gave me a funny feeling when I read it initially and it's been playing on my mind. Bothering me.



"Would do nothing to jeopardise his relationship with his daughters."
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10661979&postcount=146"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 26th June - Trial Day 11, Week 3[/ame]

This is part of the motive. Allison was going to leave.

Why did they go out only on the Wednesday to Mt Cootha to talk? Why the need to get the BC's to babysit? The girls were already asleep. They'd also talked about this the Monday and then again on the Thursday night AT HOME with the girls in bed presumably. No babysitter necessary!!

 

[they'll get you]

I think I will be ok lol

That's interesting you say that. Because you are a 'Fully Qualified Websleuther'
you are aware the culprit is behind bars but what about the other locals thoughts? Do they feel absolutely safe now?

Would GBC be welcomed home like a long lost hero with the towns ticket parade?

 

[kiwijayne]

No. This gave me a funny feeling when I read it initially and it's been playing on my mind. Bothering me.



"Would do nothing to jeopardise his relationship with his daughters."
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 26th June - Trial Day 11, Week 3

This is part of the motive. Allison was going to leave.

Why did they go out only on the Wednesday to Mt Cootha to talk? Why the need to get the BC's to babysit? The girls were already asleep. They'd also talked about this the Monday and then again on the Thursday night AT HOME with the girls in bed presumably. No babysitter necessary!!

Maybe he had other plans when he took her Mt Cootha? Very dark and very dense forest areas up there. Not to mention very isolated in parts. Plenty of places to scope out body dumping sites. JMHO

 

[Zim]

I do not know how to paste the pic of the decoy toys....(help please)


Perhaps he threw her in thru the side doors and not the back ?

 

[Neuromancer]

With regard to ABC's blood found in the Captiva, I am still wrestling with why not a single cell of blood was detected inside the jumper that had kept intact the plant matter entwined in her hair. Would it really have been the rushing water that washed away any trace of blood inside the jumper?

I know that her head is likely to have been just above the water line under the bridge (or am I completely wrong on this?), and/but if a thorough examination was done of the jumper, one would think that some little trace of blood would have been detected.

Would it have been her shin that was bleeding? ... an injury that was caused somehow while her body was being transferred to the Captiva?
Maybe Allison's body wasn't placed in the back head first, but the blood ran down inside a tarp/plastic wrap of some sort to the door area.

I still think that the screams may not have been related to Allison, and she was smothered with a pillow ...... thereby not waking her children. A car leaving from in the car port, IMO would be unlikely to wake her children.

re the jumper. If blood just ran from the face/head, it wouldn't have to get onto the jumper (I just re-read the PM and it says both the waist and neck of the jumper were twisted up around her neck, ie not over her face) And I guess the parts of the jumper underneath her would have had a lot of other body fluids, mud etc that blood wouldn't stand out - or even mean anything at that point (just guessing)

Blood running out of a tarp also works - would have that same pattern of a small amount running out quickly. But I'd still expect it to come from head, otherwise you'd expect some on the clothes.

hadn't really thought about the shin. Would require a strange position.
Thinking that if there was visible bleeding, he would have wrapped her up to protect the car, or gone back to clean it after. Which is why i thought some unexpected blood might have run from nose/mouth and he hadn't noticed. Also the presence of the hair there pointed towards head for me, but I'm perplexed as to how a hair would have got down there while the seats were down, if it was from that night.

 

[silverau]

Hi another long time lurker.

It has always bugged me why his dad was taking a vacuum cleaner and hose away. Then someone just posted "BTW I'm still amazed there was no blood transfer or kholo dirt to door handles, gear shift or steering wheel"

I reckon they've used the hose to clean the car of dirt and were getting rid of it to say they didn't own a hose???
Did they ever test the contents of the vacuum cleaner?

Welcome!!

I have to say its sheer stupidity removing a vacuum cleaner from the house of a missing woman with police everywhere, innocently or not.

And why couldn't they use a vacuum from NBC or OWs house? Or the companies Vacuum? Or the property owners vacuum??? If the property they were fixing was supposed to be up for rent or sale ( I forget each) why didn't they use a professional carpet cleaner that real estates make all tenants use?