GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[IBR]

The feeling I got from Mr Byrne yesterday was they will be suggesting she floated down the creek and came to land in the spot she was found. The time lapse video was to show the amount of debris washed up and down that particular section of the creek hence how the plant matter could have been entwined in her hair.

Because we don't actually know where her body started from ( assuming it floated to its final resting place ) we don't know whether all those plants were available in the creek area to become entwined - does that make sense ?

I'm way behind, so what I want to say might have been said already. Sorry if that's the case.

I'm sure that it has been stated either in the bail hearing documents or by one of the medical experts that was a witness of defence, that either she died where she was found or she was dumped there fairly shortly after her death, i.e. within a few hours after her death.
As the rain set in just a few days before she was found and not at the time of her disappearance, I very much doubt that there is any chance that her body has floated down the creek within that very short time frame just after she died.

 

[HoolyDooly]

I think GBC has shot himself in the foot with the phone charger BS. He may well have left his phone laying around so that Allison could pick it up at any time to look at it but for her to confiscate it from him each night and not return it until the following morning is utter crap!

Think about this. For the first time in a month's worth of phone records GBC phones TM at 2:43pm at her office on Thursday 19 April. Yep, the day before Allison was reported missing. He'd phoned Allison at 2:41pm, probably to see where she was. We now know that TM had also phoned GBC later that same day no less than three times. I believe that GBC and TM did meet that night while the girls were at Nigelaine's and Allison was at the hairdresser. One of the girls did say that Daddy picked them up from their grandparents' and took them home. Did Allison discover that GBC wasn't at Nigelaine's as he said he'd be, but had stepped out for a while to attend to business? Allison may have even gone to Nigelaine's after the hairdresser and found that GBC wasn't there. She went home, leaving the girls there to enjoy time with their cousins until Daddy came back to bring them home. She had a fair idea of where he was.

Allison phoned her home landline at 6:26pm on the Thursday night, 19 April. That call lasted 0.01sec. Obviously nobody was home and she got message bank instead. She phoned GBC's mobile at 6:27pm, a 0:21sec call. The next and final call from Allison's phone was at 8:28pm to OW. That call lasted for 1:01secs. Short and sweet! Was Allison asking OW what time GBC came to pick up the girls etc? Were they all lying to her, covering up GBC's nasty little infidelity? I believe so.

When GBC arrived home and the girls were in bed Allison confronted him. He knew what was coming because his family had already tipped him off that Allison had been looking for him. He was furious, she was furious and that fury erupted into murder.

Zakly ! head on nail.... well sussed Makara.

 

[enthralled]

What adult male would hack into their face with a razor more than once I might add, then wake their young daughter up to put a bandaide on it. My goodness gbc, we know you are absolutely useless at everything, but the fact you can't put a bandaide on your own face is taking it way way too far!!!
Gee I do have willpower. I just wanted so badly to add a multitude of swear words

 

[Fuskier]

Brookfield Showground is locked off at night and you can't get a vehicle in there. It is down the road from his house.

Another possibility would be a house for sale he knows is vacant and he could use a hose there. Without raising suspicion. He could have even gone to a friends house maybe in Brookfield?

I can ask the maintenance guy I see him regularly there.

Kiwijayne, the current maintenance man could check with the one on duty in April 2012. There was speculation in earlier WS threads that the Captiva was seen by locals parked in the Showgrounds in the early hours of that morning 20th April 2012, that maybe the car and wheel arches were hosed down there before he brought it back to the house, then placed the toys in the back, etc.

 

[Happygolucky]

Yesterdays long, long biography, struck me as very sad. It sounded to me as if Gerard had sat for 2 years and taken everything that was said about him and he was now going to tell his side of the story. I felt he came across as not to bright and not very strong man, actually I felt sorry for him.

I am beginning to think he believes his own publicity. I have thought about the murder for so long and I can come up with no other suspect or scenario. It seems to me that there is not a lot of evidence against him, but where did those scratches come from and how did the blood get in the car, and how did Allison body get to Kholo Creek. If he could answer just one of those question with a plausible explanation, but he can't. He truly is a sad and desperate man at the moment, I don't know if the jury can find him guilty on what the prosecution has presented. I really did expect a mush stronger case from the prosecution but it hasn't happened. In the back of my mind I keep thinking of Lindy Chamberlain andd what she had to endure,

I really wish I could understand and see some other scenario, because the pieces aren't come together to well in the current one.

Night all, and thank you so much to everyone who has done a sterling job in tweeting all that is happening in court room, hope these 3 days give you a bit of a break, I am thinking it will be filled to overflowing in the Supreme Court on Monday,

I also keep thinking of Lindy Chamberlain. I have not had the opportunity to attend the trial but did attend the first day of the committal hearing when those photos of Gerards face were shown. I still came away with the nagging doubt that it all did not "gel". We still have no cause of death, no site of death, and nothing linking Gerard to the Kholo bridge site. No mud on shoes, plant matter on his clothes, no car sighting and despite very extensive inquiries there is no evidence that he went through the roundabout. Indeed we have no proof that Alison was murdered. I also agree we have no proof that she committed suicide. His girls were interviewed the next day prior to any chance of defriefing and they all heard nothing which seems to indicate the screams heard in the area could have been Mrs Apps daugher or someone else.

My mind keeps coming up with the "what ifs" for not guilty but nothing seems very logical. If Gerard had confessed there was an argument and a very angry Alison scratched and lashed out at him before running out of the house that may be plausible. When you are angry and need to cool your head it is possible that you would go for a walk and meet with foul play in the night. But Gerard is adament there was no fight and no scratches. What if his pride caused him to lie about scratches initially and he locked himself into that??? Get less and less probable but....

Then there is the blood in the car, not much but "rivulets" but no evidence of the car being cleaned if I have read/remember the transcripts correctly so where is the mud from Kholo creek?? To get Alison's body to where it rested would have likely required a walk down a steep muddy path in the dark.

Then there is the plant matter--heaps of it on Alison's body. We know that there were six species from their home. We also know only 2 of them are at Kholo creek. The gap is this info is how many homes or areas of bushland also contain these same species?--Is is remotely possible that she met with foul play away from the home area??If she had been placed on the back porch or the garage floor is it likely there would be some forensic evidence?

Of course the biggie is the "shaving" injury! What will the defense explain about this? If he was bitten by an insect or a caterpiller the day before could the face have been involved as well and come up in a raised welt?? But a highly unusual shaped welt to shave the top off!! And if so, why did he not mention it.

The bottom line is I, like in the Lindy Chamerlain case, have this nagging doubt and I can't help hoping (for the children's sake) that he is, in reality, not guilty. It is horrific enough to lose your mother but then to have your father incarcerated for her death is toooooo tragic.

 

[squizzey1]

Kiwijayne, the current maintenance man could check with the one on duty in April 2012. There was speculation in earlier WS threads that the Captiva was seen by locals parked in the Showgrounds in the early hours of that morning 20th April 2012, that maybe the car and wheel arches were hosed down there before he brought it back to the house, then placed the toys in the back, etc.

BUT missed the blood

 

[possumheart]

I am hoping it is not lost on the jury that G played along with TM to such extremes as to have a portrait taken with her, let alone make a commitment (albeit by email), yet claims to have an emotional disconnect from her. If he can be SO cold to his mistress of three years, he can just as easily be cold to his wife. Very cold. Deadly cold.
His ramble does place emphasis on the importance of him appearing successful, which he would have done seamlessly if the insurance money had flowed to him as it might have.
Toni = disposable
Alison = disposable
I am sorry that the jury hasn't heard of G's comments to Philip Broom about needing a bigger car to transport both his and Toni's children.

 

[enthralled]

I also keep thinking of Lindy Chamberlain. I have not had the opportunity to attend the trial but did attend the first day of the committal hearing when those photos of Gerards face were shown. I still came away with the nagging doubt that it all did not "gel". We still have no cause of death, no site of death, and nothing linking Gerard to the Kholo bridge site. No mud on shoes, plant matter on his clothes, no car sighting and despite very extensive inquiries there is no evidence that he went through the roundabout. Indeed we have no proof that Alison was murdered. I also agree we have no proof that she committed suicide. His girls were interviewed the next day prior to any chance of defriefing and they all heard nothing which seems to indicate the screams heard in the area could have been Mrs Apps daugher or someone else.

My mind keeps coming up with the "what ifs" for not guilty but nothing seems very logical. If Gerard had confessed there was an argument and a very angry Alison scratched and lashed out at him before running out of the house that may be plausible. When you are angry and need to cool your head it is possible that you would go for a walk and meet with foul play in the night. But Gerard is adament there was no fight and no scratches. What if his pride caused him to lie about scratches initially and he locked himself into that??? Get less and less probable but....

Then there is the blood in the car, not much but "rivulets" but no evidence of the car being cleaned if I have read/remember the transcripts correctly so where is the mud from Kholo creek?? To get Alison's body to where it rested would have likely required a walk down a steep muddy path in the dark.

Then there is the plant matter--heaps of it on Alison's body. We know that there were six species from their home. We also know only 2 of them are at Kholo creek. The gap is this info is how many homes or areas of bushland also contain these same species?--Is is remotely possible that she met with foul play away from the home area??If she had been placed on the back porch or the garage floor is it likely there would be some forensic evidence?

Of course the biggie is the "shaving" injury! What will the defense explain about this? If he was bitten by an insect or a caterpiller the day before could the face have been involved as well and come up in a raised welt?? But a highly unusual shaped welt to shave the top off!! And if so, why did he not mention it.

The bottom line is I, like in the Lindy Chamerlain case, have this nagging doubt and I can't help hoping (for the children's sake) that he is, in reality, not guilty. It is horrific enough to lose your mother but then to have your father incarcerated for her death is toooooo tragic.

Happygolucky I too wish he wasn't guilty. It is horrible to think that a man can kill the mother of his children. Our hearts ache for those poor innocent little girls losing both parents but from all that has been reported and the guff spewing out of his mouth, to me he is definitely guilty. Even if he wasn't guilty he deserves to be locked away for a while for the way he sucked the light out of Allison with those terrible put downs, when he knew she was prone to depression anyway. Disgusting!

 

[marlywings]

I think GBC has shot himself in the foot with the phone charger BS. He may well have left his phone laying around so that Allison could pick it up at any time to look at it but for her to confiscate it from him each night and not return it until the following morning is utter crap!

Think about this. For the first time in a month's worth of phone records GBC phones TM at 2:43pm at her office on Thursday 19 April. Yep, the day before Allison was reported missing. He'd phoned Allison at 2:41pm, probably to see where she was. We now know that TM had also phoned GBC later that same day no less than three times. I believe that GBC and TM did meet that night while the girls were at Nigelaine's and Allison was at the hairdresser. One of the girls did say that Daddy picked them up from their grandparents' and took them home. Did Allison discover that GBC wasn't at Nigelaine's as he said he'd be, but had stepped out for a while to attend to business? Allison may have even gone to Nigelaine's after the hairdresser and found that GBC wasn't there. She went home, leaving the girls there to enjoy time with their cousins until Daddy came back to bring them home. She had a fair idea of where he was.

Allison phoned her home landline at 6:26pm on the Thursday night, 19 April. That call lasted 0.01sec. Obviously nobody was home and she got message bank instead. She phoned GBC's mobile at 6:27pm, a 0:21sec call. The next and final call from Allison's phone was at 8:28pm to OW. That call lasted for 1:01secs. Short and sweet! Was Allison asking OW what time GBC came to pick up the girls etc? Were they all lying to her, covering up GBC's nasty little infidelity? I believe so.

When GBC arrived home and the girls were in bed Allison confronted him. He knew what was coming because his family had already tipped him off that Allison had been looking for him. He was furious, she was furious and that fury erupted into murder.

If I could just expand on the last line...

In my opinion I think Allison may have been at the point of calling police. That could very well be the reason he didn't want that phone found.

 

[DrWatson]

Several folks have commented on the "thuds" that various witnesses have described, both at Brookfield and at the Kholo Bridge.

There have been various theories about a body being dropped, knocked, or plopped into the car, or the road, or over the bridge.

However, I would suggest that NONE of those is likely to be the cause of thuds that are audible from any distance at all.

BUT - far more likely to be the closing of the tailgate/back hatch of the Captiva and/or the driver's door. While the driver's door would sound fairly distinctive - like a car door - the tailgate may not sound as distinctive. I drive a Landcruiser, and the sound the tailgate makes when being closed is more of a solid thud.

Just putting the idea out there - I don't think the thuds would have been Allison, either dead or alive.

 

[BigT]

BUT missed the blood

It looks like the blood drop, starts where the back seat lays down, and it stands to reason, if you put the seats back into place, you would miss the drop on the door. Doh......

 

[possumheart]

[/QUOTE]

Then there is the blood in the car, not much but "rivulets" but no evidence of the car being cleaned if I have read/remember the transcripts correctly so where is the mud from Kholo creek?? To get Alison's body to where it rested would have likely required a walk down a steep muddy path in the dark.

Respectfully snipped.
Happygolycky, I have been to the bridge numerous times. It was a dry night, GBC need not have encountered any mud. He could have parked a short distance from the bridge on bitumen, walked down a dry path, stood on the base of the concrete pillar and swung the body to her temporary resting place. My partner (having discussed physical fitness with GBC in past years) knows G is knowledgable about core strength. I would be astounded if he was unaware of sandbag exercises where you work out with dead weights of sand. He had a personal trainer. If you google you will see that he and his parents even won things like breakfasts from the trainer's company.
I am ashamed of what happened to Lindy Chaimberlain.
I am appalled at what has happened to Allison Baden-Clay.
I will be devastated if that man walks away with her life insurance money and her three daughters.

 

[squizzey1]

Several folks have commented on the "thuds" that various witnesses have described, both at Brookfield and at the Kholo Bridge.

There have been various theories about a body being dropped, knocked, or plopped into the car, or the road, or over the bridge.

However, I would suggest that NONE of those is likely to be the cause of thuds that are audible from any distance at all.

BUT - far more likely to be the closing of the tailgate/back hatch of the Captiva and/or the driver's door. While the driver's door would sound fairly distinctive - like a car door - the tailgate may not sound as distinctive. I drive a Landcruiser, and the sound the tailgate makes when being closed is more of a solid thud.

Just putting the idea out there - I don't think the thuds would have been Allison, either dead or alive.

agree Doc thud of her being dropped would be much lighter andduller drop a bag of spuds and close the tailgate , later much louder me thinks

 

[possumheart]

If I could just expand on the last line...

In my opinion I think Allison may have been at the point of calling police. That could very well be the reason he didn't want that phone found.

And now I know all he had to do is wrap it in alfoil.

 

[Fuskier]

He's where he is for a reason...murder charge!! As I've said in a previous post, he was a salesman giving the biggest sales pitch of his life. His next 20 or so years depend on that spiel.

No sympathy whatsoever from me. In fact I call it karma for all the mental abuse he dished out to Alllison.

Every day we hear of domestic violence cases, physical abuse & violence towards wives, girlfriends/partners. Some of the injuries are horrendous, but physical injuries such as stab wounds, broken bones do heal in time, IF that person is still alive. The scarring from mental abuse can last a lifetime.

Mental abuse such as...""Laughed at undies. Told me I smell."",Said I was so different. Laughed. Why? Afterwards why so mean? ""Let me believe it was all my fault and therefore I was at your mercy.Force me to look to you - think that's where you wanted me."

Cheating on her behind her back & the endless lies that would have gone with all of that.
And not holding her when she needed him the most.
Nup....not a dot of sympathy from me!! Allison's words are what I call sad!!

"Laughed at undies. Told me I smell."",Said I was so different. Laughed. Why? Afterwards why so mean? "
IMO this deeply personal response from GBC to Allison shows serious abuse. It shows his 'devaluation' of her, his 'rejection' of her body, her underwear and his 'contemptuous' feelings for her.

I am disappointed the PT did not highlight his true feelings of contempt for and rejection of Allison through this scenario. Yes, her diary notes were read out to Court, but a corresponding interpretation as being GBC's true feelings of contempt for Allison was missing. My opinion only.

 

[squizzey1]

And now I know all he had to do is wrap it in alfoil.

well he used gladwrap for the razor so why not , both in the same drawer

 

[toe]

And that could account for her chipped tooth him snatching the phone from her as she tried to call for help.

 

[marlywings]

I'm a keen gardener who's been battling against South East Queensland's multitude of noxious weeds for 30 years. The likelihood of only plant matter from plants like those in Allison's yard being washed down Kholo Creek and into her hair are zero.

I agree. I think the defence will have to come up with evidence which shows where the leaves have come from & exactly where the trees are growing.

 

[BigT]

I have also used a Mach 3 razor for about 25 years, I rush every single shave, and I have never cut myself once.

Here is a thought unexplored, on the morning he makes 000 call, he is out driving around looking for ABC, OW is around early to mind the kids I think.

What was he really doing? Phone records show he was in Mt Cootha tower zone at 7.04 am on the 19th and 6.46 am on the 20th, he has a place up there that he would have met TM is my guess, what did he dispose of at mt cootha?

 

[kiwijayne]

Kiwijayne, the current maintenance man could check with the one on duty in April 2012. There was speculation in earlier WS threads that the Captiva was seen by locals parked in the Showgrounds in the early hours of that morning 20th April 2012, that maybe the car and wheel arches were hosed down there before he brought it back to the house, then placed the toys in the back, etc.

I'm going to go for a drive a bit later to take some more pictures.

The thing is the showground is locked up at night. So I'm not sure he could have got in there. But I would imagine if he took a hose with him he could have found a tap.