GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #4

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  • #961
Thanks for this summary. I believe you have clearly detailed some of my misgivings regards the evidence presented by the prosecution.

Do you or any Websleuths you any knowledge, opinion regards the onboard computers built into Captivas? Do they give detailed information regards mileage and time of journeys? They were mentioned in a previous post but info on the internet was scare.

Yes I remember someone ( I apologise for not remembering exactly who) saying their mechanic husband said the computer logs the start times of the ignition.

If this is true it would surely answer one way or another whether the Captiva (whoever was driving) was started in the middle of the night.


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  • #962
BBM.... the only people who are obliged to believe Gerards tale NOW THAT HIS TRIAL HAS BEGUN is his defence team.. they are contracted to present his story.. in fact, they don't have to believe it to present it. One is entitled to a reasonable serve of belief, and this is why a trial is being held at our expense.. we decide to give Gerard a good chance of explaining himself. Once his trial begins, Gerard occupies no mans land. It is not rational practice to suspend belief for an extended amount of time. Not being on the jury, I am not obliged to maintain a fixed and stubborn belief in the face of evidence presented..

as for the rest of your claims there. (a)no .. and (b) no.. and (c)no.. and (d) no. That you would be astounded in no way makes it untrue.. it only makes it astounding to you.

We have many and varied life experiences here Trooper ;)

I will confess to misrepresentation of my financial position by default, in finding an excuse to not attend an event rather than say I can't afford it :)


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  • #963
It is my understanding that since the matter of the Captiva's internal monitetrng has not been tabled as trial evidence, it is now irrelevant. Nothing can now be introduced in closing arguments that has not been tabled during the trial. That is to say, if it has not been mentioned during the trial, then it is not admissible in the closing arguments which is a summary of the evidence tendered. I may be wrong. I am one of those people who has gleaned an entire understanding of the legal system and its machinations as a result of viewing GBS's (very poor)performance on A Current Affair ( a show i swear I normally refuse to watch )
 
  • #964
Yes I remember someone ( I apologise for not remembering exactly who) saying their mechanic husband said the computer logs the start times of the ignition.

If this is true it would surely answer one way or another whether the Captiva (whoever was driving) was started in the middle of the night.


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Yes...back on page 24...

My mechanic hubby said the computer in a car can tell him when the car was started up to the last 20-50 times.
He also said the police forensics should have a far superior diagnostic computer system than his.

Since 1999 the computers systems in cars have been so advanced that American shopping centre car parks were placed sensors which could tell which cars had been speeding.
I had a problem with my car and under diagnosis my car computer was in 'limp home mode', awwwww.

I used to loath Big Brother until 'he ' helped find Jill Meagher's murderer. If you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to hide.
 
  • #965
Yes...back on page 24...

Thank you Marly, you seem to have a computer for a brain when it comes to finding things :)


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  • #966
one is only entitled to be thought innocent until proven, in a court of law.. not in the car, on the web, in a shed, on the street, or anywhere else.. Gerard has been accorded this belief in his innocence as far as, and up to ,the decision to test his claims.. in a court of law..

one isn't accorded the generosity of a belief in one's innocence for ever.. there is a point in time where even the most guilty has to face that reality, and also, believers in innocence.. it is not a permanent state of grace.. it has a use-by date.. that's why we have prisons, and courts, and barristers, and prosecutors..
 
  • #967
As for misrepresenting our financial positions, I do not mean this in a deceptive, fraudulent or even conscious way. How many of you have told the fundraisers who corral you in shopping centres that you don't have any cash on you? How about beggars? What about people who apply for a mortgage in the misguided belief that they have the capacity to meet their repayments should interest rates fluctuate? When you were younger, did you ever tell your mates that you couldn't go out because you were broke simply because you didn't want to go out? These are but a few examples, I could pull out a hundred more and I would be gobsmacked, absolutely astounded, if every adult in this country had not at one point or another lied (or were totally ignorant) about their finances.
We aren't talking two bucks to buy a packet of twisties here JCB.
 
  • #968
We have many and varied life experiences here Trooper ;)

I will confess to misrepresentation of my financial position by default, in finding an excuse to not attend an event rather than say I can't afford it :)


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it doesn't follow that everyone does that, though, cattail.. merely those who do.. one cannot extrapolate that everyone does it.. I , for example... kiss my dog on the lips every day before I go to work.. does everyone do this?? I doubt it. When I mean every day, I have actually turned off the road and gone back to do it, if I forget.. ... .
 
  • #969
it doesn't follow that everyone does that, though, cattail.. merely those who do.. one cannot extrapolate that everyone does it.. I , for example... kiss my dog on the lips every day before I go to work.. does everyone do this?? I doubt it. When I mean every day, I have actually turned off the road and gone back to do it, if I forget.. ... .

Don't kiss the dogs on the lips no ....,, but guilty of a last minute peck on the head for the cat ;)


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  • #970
We aren't talking two bucks to buy a packet of twisties here JCB.

hhaha.. it is a long stretch to call Gerard's claims of his fiscal peculiarities as 'misrepresentation'.. a mighty long stretch.. most people, ask 100 and 97 will agree that it is fraud, close to embezzlement and flat out theft.
 
  • #971
hhaha.. it is a long stretch to call Gerard's claims of his fiscal peculiarities as 'misrepresentation'.. a mighty long stretch.. most people, ask 100 and 97 will agree that it is fraud, close to embezzlement and flat out theft.

I haven't spent the time to go through all the documents regarding financial matters here. I did not see the point in spending the time tbh as the summary of amounts due told me all I needed to know. Speaking as an (unverified) CA.

I think most of GBCs talk in this matter is typical salesperson talk. (No offence to any salespeople here). Just speaking in generalities with a positive spin and refusing to be pinned down on details.


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  • #972
hhaha.. it is a long stretch to call Gerard's claims of his fiscal peculiarities as 'misrepresentation'.. a mighty long stretch.. most people, ask 100 and 97 will agree that it is fraud, close to embezzlement and flat out theft.

On what basis is it fraud or theft? Aren't you generalising in exactly the same way you lambasted me for only minutes earlier? Who did he dishonestly gain a benefit from?

To clarify (although I thought I had clarified sufficiently in my early post), what I mean is that I have no reason not to believe that GBC genuinely thought his financial position was not as dire as it seemed to be and that he believed the business was on the way up. Terribly optimistic on his part perhaps, but I didn't see anything untoward in his evidence that was demonstrably false, nevermind criminal (in relation to his finances I mean).
 
  • #973
Yes we understand that but at the time her depression was under control.

Or perhaps someone forced Zoloft into her before she was killed so it would be seen on the pathology and the BC's could use that to their advantage?

Which would explain the chipped tooth.
 
  • #974
On what basis is it theft? Aren't you generalising in exactly the same way you lambasted me for only minutes earlier?

To clarify (although I thought I had clarified sufficiently in my early post), what I mean is that I have no reason not to believe that GBC genuinely thought his financial position was not as dire as it seemed to be and that he believed the business was on the way up. Terribly optimistic on his part perhaps, but I didn't see anything untoward in his evidence that was demonstrably false, nevermind criminal (in relation to his finances I mean).


Yes. Salesman patter. Talk in generalities, positive spin, not be pinned down on details.

Nothing criminal in it I agree with you JCB.

Could point to motive if one was inclined to believe in a planned murder.

I don't believe it was planned out - but the financial situation could have contributed to the stress that led to actions on that night - but that is pure conjecture on my part.



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  • #975
Again....like I have stated numerous times before QPS are well known to be very competent criminal investigators.....no pjs means they have been disposed of...which is why the Prosecution asked GBC where they were

The footage of GBC carrying the laundry basket from the home. I can't find it. Any blue checked PJ's can you see?
 
  • #976
Snippitysnip with respect

Blood in the Captiva - Worthy of investigation? Absolutely but as was stated during the trial, it is impossible to determine the age of the blood transfer and the volume of blood required to make such a transfer. Furthermore there were no physical injuries found on Allison's body that would seemingly be consistent with this scenario and no alternative theory was put forward as to how the blood arrived to be there. Therefore I cannot place any significance on the blood.

Thanks for the obvious thought you've put into this, JCB. I DO relish the opportunity to mull things over with likeminded individuals (and by likeminded, I mean those with objectivity, empathy and above average intelligence, as I believe all here are, right? :))

I will play. For the record, I was gobsmacked by the failure to take a contemporaneous, formal statement from Ms Apps. But I think all the screaming goes nowhere in any event.

For the sake of brevity and my marriage, I will just address the blood in the car issue. What say you to:

1. The agreed fact of the Captiva having then been in the family's possession for just eight weeks; and
2. The evidence of GBC and daughter(s?) that Allison had not reported having sustained a bleeding injury within that timeframe; and
3. The position of the stain meaning almost certainly that it was not, not to put too fine a point on it, but I must, menstrual blood; and
4. The evidence of the vast and cumbersome array of unwanted toys and clothes placed adjacent to the blood on the 19th or 20th, for no apparent practical reason?

Needless to say, I have a very different view of the evidence and likely outcome from you, but one of my favourite after school shows was Diff'rent Strokes :)
 
  • #977
Which would explain the chipped tooth.

Is the chipped tooth necessarily relevant? I think the autopsy said that they didn't know how recent it was.

It may have been caused as you suggest here.

But I don't think it HAS to be explained if that makes sense. :)


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  • #978
On what basis is it fraud or theft? Aren't you generalising in exactly the same way you lambasted me for only minutes earlier? Who did he dishonestly gain a benefit from?

To clarify (although I thought I had clarified sufficiently in my early post), what I mean is that I have no reason not to believe that GBC genuinely thought his financial position was not as dire as it seemed to be and that he believed the business was on the way up. Terribly optimistic on his part perhaps, but I didn't see anything untoward in his evidence that was demonstrably false, nevermind criminal (in relation to his finances I mean).
Having confronted Bruce Flegg outside the Chamber of Commerce and held him by his shirt front - accusing him of gossiping about the state of his business, I tend to think that the yawning chasm that was difference between the appearance and the reality of Gerard's financial affairs was at the front of his own mind at most times.
 
  • #979
Didn't Alioop say a while back that the jury have to take time to consider the evidence - that even if they were to start deliberations by taking a show of hands and if they found they were all agreed, that they couldn't just go back out straight away and announce that they've reached a verdict.

I wonder how much time is considered sufficient for proper deliberation. Does anyone have any idea about that?

At least a couple of days. Rolf Harris jury took 8 days.
 
  • #980
Have spent a good part of the afternoon reading through the various threads and keeping myself updated on the latest goings on and I have to say if nothing else, these threads are a fascinating microcosm of the human psyche.

<modsnip>

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY knows exactly what was going through the mind of Allison immediately before her death, and indeed throughout her entire relationship with GBC. This includes medical professionals who have personally treated Allison, while they are in the best position to make assessments I can tell you from personal experience that some people are reluctant to share their most intimate thoughts and feelings, even with health professionals. There are any number of reasons why information may be withheld or less than truthful answered proffered - The patient may believe it is irrelevant, feel ashamed or may even fear involuntary committal. Again, it is my belief that nobody is qualified to answer on Allison's behalf or make suppositions that she would, or would not do a particular act.

Anyway with that aside, I believe that the prosecution is up the proverbial without a paddle and let me preface this by reminding some who may not be aware of my position - I believe that it is likely that Allison has met with foul play and if that is indeed the case, their is a high likelihood that GBC was involved. However on the evidence adduced at trial, I feel it falls well short of the standard required to convict on either charge... Respectfully snipped

<modsnip>

We have now been privy to the full prosecution's case, the evidence, the defence witnesses, the lengthy auto-biographical life story of GBC and the alternative explanation of events by the defence. Anybody is entitled to form an opinion about his guilt or innocence, (especially at this point), just as the jury must. Anyone can have an opinion about what his punishment ought be. If someone wants to remain open to considering possibilities other than GBC killed his wife that does not make that person "unbiased or more open minded or better or worse than anyone else.
About the depression - I also have experience with depression and anxiety and as I've read so have a number here. The point is not that Allison did not have depression nor that she didn't seek and receive treatment for depression. The point is that GBC and his family testified to a description of Allison that was irrelevant (years before) so as to try to make her look suicidal at the time of her death. The fact is her behaviour around the time of her death was a good indication that her depression was well controlled and she was not suicidal. Then there is also no way the defence can present a plausible version of events with Allison committing suicide. Well, actually I don't think they can but let's see in their closing. I'm not offended that the defence would detail Allison's depression, past symptoms, recent symptoms but it is awful to manipulate the fact she has depression to create reasonable doubt and help her murderer to avoid punishment. That offends me deeply!
As you say here "nobody is qualified to answer on Allison's behalf or make suppositions that she would, or would not do a particular act." I agree! How dare GBC or his family speak to this!

Lastly, the prosecution can only put forward the evidence they have. It is pointless to criticise a lack of evidence regarding certain elements of their version of events. They cannot find evidence that wasn't left behind. But with the evidence they do have
fingernail-like scratches on GBC's face that very day
Allison's blood in the back of a new car
Plant material in her hair indicating her hair was on the ground at home
And circumstantial evidence aplenty including financial motives, affair with mistress and mistress applying particular pressure that very day, testimony of the accused that he lies everyday to everybody.
I hope the jury can consider that there is no other reasonable alternative to what happened.
If they find GBC guilty I won't consider them a lynch mob.
 
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