GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #4

[Cattail]

Thanks for the obvious thought you've put into this, JCB. I DO relish the opportunity to mull things over with likeminded individuals (and by likeminded, I mean those with objectivity, empathy and above average intelligence, as I believe all here are, right? )

I will play. For the record, I was gobsmacked by the failure to take a contemporaneous, formal statement from Ms Apps. But I think all the screaming goes nowhere in any event.

For the sake of brevity and my marriage, I will just address the blood in the car issue. What say you to:

1. The agreed fact of the Captiva having then been in the family's possession for just eight weeks; and
2. The evidence of GBC and daughter(s?) that Allison had not reported having sustained a bleeding injury within that timeframe; and
3. The position of the stain meaning almost certainly that it was not, not to put too fine a point on it, but I must, menstrual blood; and
4. The evidence of the vast and cumbersome array of unwanted toys and clothes placed adjacent to the blood on the 19th or 20th, for no apparent practical reason?

Needless to say, I have a very different view of the evidence and likely outcome from you, but one of my favourite after school shows was Diff'rent Strokes

Obviously i am not JCB . But I thought about the blood a week or so back and suggested IIRC the possibility of Allison having caught a fingernail on the mechanism for adjusting the back row of seats in the car. Just as one suggestion.

My understanding is there was not a LOT of blood? We are not talking about a volume of blood that necessarily indicates death?

I think if it is a small amount of blood in a car the victim had been using, when no cause of death has been determined - this would not by itself convince me if I was on the jury.

IMO




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[Her Honour]

Oh. Oh NO.

I just read a message from Marly about meeting 'in real life'.

Do you mean to tell me that here, WS, my safe place, is NOT REAL LIFE?

That you are all - oh, it's all becoming all too clear! - my imaginary friends?

 

[JK673]

Just asking and not in resp9nse to anyone but Is there a roll eyes emoticon anywhere???

 

[Cattail]

Oh. Oh NO.

I just read a message from Marly about meeting 'in real life'.

Do you mean to tell me that here, WS, my safe place, is NOT REAL LIFE?

That you are all - oh, it's all becoming all too clear! - my imaginary friends?

It's all a dream Her Honour


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[Trooper]

Having confronted Bruce Flegg outside the Chamber of Commerce and held him by his shirt front - accusing him of gossiping about the state of his business, I tend to think that the yawning chasm that was difference between the appearance and the reality of Gerard's financial affairs was at the front of his own mind at most times.

Gerard was certainly aware of the state of his finances and his debts and the date due on the repayment of those colossal debts...

It still makes me hoot that Gerard in giving the terrific chance to Flegg of the honor of lending him $400,000.00 , with absolutely no collateral, and no peering at the books, and at the same time refusing to tell Flegg who his current partners were makes it transparently clear that Gerard didn't want any further enquiries made into his fiscal circus.. He didn't want Flegg seeking information from the partners as to his capacity to repay this amount.. no wonder he burst into tears.. . Sometimes, people just wont play along with a feral borrower..

Gerard was aware, in the most painful way as to the situation in regard to money , and his life.. / or his wife's life.

 

[marlywings]

Folks you're not allowed to attack other members with name calling such as "lynch mobs".

You can attack the content of the post but not each other.

 

[alioop]

I will keep an eye out for you. I hope I'm not too late to get a seat. Hope to be there by 10am at the latest.

You should be fine. The Banco court with 250 seats was not full last week during GBC evidence. I think there will be less people for the closing statements.

 

[Trooper]

Gerard was so broke he couldn't afford a new razor.

 

[BJsleuth]

Darn it. Goes and empties her very large handbag out. Mutter mutter

Here KJ, take these biscuits I made in case you get peckish. Don't throw them at anyone though, they might hurt!

 

[Snails]

You should be fine. The Banco court with 250 seats was not full last week during GBC evidence. I think there will be less people for the closing statements.

Thanks Alioop.

 

[Her Honour]

one is only entitled to be thought innocent until proven, in a court of law.. not in the car, on the web, in a shed, on the street, or anywhere else.. Gerard has been accorded this belief in his innocence as far as, and up to ,the decision to test his claims.. in a court of law..

one isn't accorded the generosity of a belief in one's innocence for ever.. there is a point in time where even the most guilty has to face that reality, and also, believers in innocence.. it is not a permanent state of grace.. it has a use-by date.. that's why we have prisons, and courts, and barristers, and prosecutors..

Somebody kindly, in a non-alarmist fashion, telephone 000?

Dear Trooper is on FIRE.

 

[marlywings]

Verdict looms in Baden Clay murder trial

July 07, 2014

A JURY will this week retire to consider its verdict on whether Gerard Baden-Clay murdered his wife Allison.

The Brisbane Supreme Court trial *resumes today for the defence and prosecution to make their closing arguments.

Justice John Byrne will sum up, and then it will be in the hands of the seven men and five women of the jury.

History was made last week when, for the first time, a third court was opened to cater for interest in the case.

Proceedings in Court 11 are being screened in the 250-seat Banco court, in separate Court 17 and in a media room.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605

 

[Zim]

Pardon....I am just testing my editing ability here. On the OP thread I do not seem to be able to for some reason.

 

[possumheart]

Somebody kindly, in a non-alarmist fashion, telephone 000?

Dear Trooper is on FIRE.

It's OK I have a big bucket of slightly used sand left over from last week, should we need it.

 

[they'll get you]

Thanks for this summary. I believe you have clearly detailed some of my misgivings regards the evidence presented by the prosecution.

Do you or any Websleuths you any knowledge, opinion regards the onboard computers built into Captivas? Do they give detailed information regards mileage and time of journeys? They were mentioned in a previous post but info on the internet was scare.

Mechanic hubby said possibly the airbag computer records information like that but he's not sure how long it keeps that information.
Holden and forensics would have state of the art diagnostic computers.

 

[Zim]

Pardon....I am just testing my editing ability here. On the OP thread I do not seem to be able to for some reason.
Edit....OK managed here will go back to OP site and try again !

 

[JCB]

Thanks for the obvious thought you've put into this, JCB. I DO relish the opportunity to mull things over with likeminded individuals (and by likeminded, I mean those with objectivity, empathy and above average intelligence, as I believe all here are, right? )

I will play. For the record, I was gobsmacked by the failure to take a contemporaneous, formal statement from Ms Apps. But I think all the screaming goes nowhere in any event.

For the sake of brevity and my marriage, I will just address the blood in the car issue. What say you to:

1. The agreed fact of the Captiva having then been in the family's possession for just eight weeks; and
2. The evidence of GBC and daughter(s?) that Allison had not reported having sustained a bleeding injury within that timeframe; and
3. The position of the stain meaning almost certainly that it was not, not to put too fine a point on it, but I must, menstrual blood; and
4. The evidence of the vast and cumbersome array of unwanted toys and clothes placed adjacent to the blood on the 19th or 20th, for no apparent practical reason?

Needless to say, I have a very different view of the evidence and likely outcome from you, but one of my favourite after school shows was Diff'rent Strokes

Thank you for the kind words, they are reciprocated in kind.

1. Yes the Captiva was a new acquisition which obviously narrows the timeframe in which the blood stain occurred, but in my opinion it doesn't narrow it down sufficiently and must be considered only of minor probative value, if at all.

2. I don't necessarily think that this is unusual, I've cut myself fairly significantly on a number of occasions and haven't thought it worthy of notifying someone, unless of course they noticed the wound and later questioned it. There have also been times where I've been in a rush where I haven't even noticed that I had injured myself and it was bleeding fairly profusely. Obviously not saying that this is the case here but nevertheless the possibility exists. DrWatson would be able to help here (if he/she is to return) but particularly vascular areas such as the scalp, feet and perhaps even the hands often bleed profusely from even the most minor of incisions, it's possible that the wound bled for some time and the wound was barely visible shortly thereafter.

3. I'm no pathologist or expert on the female reproductive system (or females in general for that matter!) but I'd have thought it possible to forensically differentiate between menstrual blood and "normal" blood? Or perhaps not, like I said I'm as far from an expert on the subject as you can get! I would be interested in your version of events as to how menstrual blood came into contact with that part of the car because I can't really picture it (but I appreciate that may be a bit graphic for this discussion which is at the academic stage anyway).

4. Seems unusual yes, but I would have thought it would have been just as quick, if not quicker to give the panel a quick wipe over than to throw in a bunch of toys/clothes in a misguided attempt to divert attention. A quick clean obviously wouldn't have removed all traces of blood, but it would seem the obvious thing to do if you were trying to conceal a crime scene. Could be something sinister of course but again in the absence of a likely source of the blood (disregarding the menstrual blood scenario at this time) I couldn't place much value on it.

 

[kiwijayne]

Can anyone please give me the address of the court I'm going to?

 

[Trooper]

Somebody kindly, in a non-alarmist fashion, telephone 000?

Dear Trooper is on FIRE.

I reject the implication that I owe Baden-Clay the free pass to consider him not guilty until proven innocent .. the quote itself is abbreviated to portray a point of view.. innocent until proven guilty, in a court of law.. that's the full exhortation.. and if no one has noticed, Gerard is in a court of law, and has been for a few weeks now.. He has been given the chance to tell his story, and by extension, he can also tell Alisons story, particularly the last hours of her life, along with the private life he led with her, and who can call him on it? Murderers own, by the virtue of their act, the last hours of peoples lives.. it is, with very few exceptions, an act done in secrecy and silence.. Gerard can say anything about Alison, and no one can gainsay it, except by forensic investigation as to the probabilities of his story being believable.. By merely opening his mouth he affirmed his guilt, in my opinion..

don't throw sand over me.. . I can simmer quite contained for years.. .

 

[Cattail]

Thank you for the kind words, they are reciprocated in kind.

1. Yes the Captiva was a new acquisition which obviously narrows the timeframe in which the blood stain occurred, but in my opinion it doesn't narrow it down sufficiently and must be considered only of minor probative value, if at all.
2. I don't necessarily think that this is unusual, I've cut myself fairly significantly on a number of occasions and haven't thought it worthy of notifying someone, unless of course they noticed the wound and later questioned it. There have also been times where I've been in a rush where I haven't even noticed that I had injured myself and it was bleeding fairly profusely. Obviously not saying that this is the case here but nevertheless the possibility exists.
3. I'm no pathologist or expert on the female reproductive system (or females in general for that matter!) but I'd have thought it possible to forensically differentiate between menstrual blood and "normal" blood? Or perhaps not, like I said I'm as far from an expert on the subject as you can get! I would be interested in your version of events as to how menstrual blood came into contact with that part of the car because I can't really picture it (but I appreciate that may be a bit graphic for this discussion which is at the academic stage anyway).
4. Seems unusual yes, but I would have thought it would have been just as quick, if not quicker to give the panel a quick wipe over than to throw in a bunch of toys/clothes in a misguided attempt to divert attention. A quick clean obviously wouldn't have removed all traces of blood, but it would seem the obvious thing to do if you were trying to conceal a crime scene. Could be something sinister of course but again in the absence of a likely source of the blood (disregarding the menstrual blood scenario at this time) I couldn't place much value on it.

Yes to no 4. I have not been able to understand why there was no attempt to clean this blood yet it is assumed GBC knew there was a need to hide something so he put the toys in the boot. If he knew there was something to hide? Obvious response, wipe the blood away.

Again, if I was on the jury this blood alone would not let me convict in all good conscience.



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