General Discussion Thread #2

[shane13]

OP's roots?

Seems that they were German on his father's side. His mother had the one Italian grandparent. Haven't found much else.

If anyone has more details, please post.

Thanks.

 

[Tugela]

It is just Politicians doing what Politicians do... Never letting a crisis (international headline) go to waste. They all operate the same regardless of the country.

I'm getting too cynical too soon for my years.

She is not a politician. She used to be one, and has been married to the first president of Mozambique, and then to the former president of South Africa (who were both politicians - Samora Machel is dead now though), but she is not one now.

 

[Carol70]

About face?
Now PR firm says they are still working OP case:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/vuma-denies-split-from-oscar-1.1482566#.UTlF7jcs1ac

Yes, interesting. I also saw that OP's camp have distanced themselves from his fathers statements regarding the ANC. A family divided again?

 

[Carol70]

It is just Politicians doing what Politicians do... Never letting a crisis (international headline) go to waste. They all operate the same regardless of the country.

I'm getting too cynical too soon for my years.

FYI, she is not a politican and she is highly regarded in SA. Quite frankly, I absolutely agree with her. I dont think there is another country that has the high rate of home invasions that ends in extreme violence and levels of cruelty. What kind of person has the mentality to pepper spray a 4mo old baby while he is sleeping...and it appears the victims were cooperating with the robbers? Cry the Beloved Country indeed!

And as an aside, Mr Zuma has a cheek to say we are a "peace loving nation" when he himself felt justified enough to use 250 million ZAR of tax payers money to do security upgrades to his private residence. I wont even go into what that money could have been used for when his very own people are starving and living in extreme poverty. Its a disgrace.

 

[Carol70]

Any good movies on/in/about SA that you do recommend?

(I guess I am pretty ignorant on SA except for movies/docs on Biko, Mandela etc., and some others.)

Serious off topic post comming up but anyway

Not really to be honest, we dont have telly so rely heavy on downloading stuff and SA docs are hard to come by if they are not main stream. I loved Totsi and Yesterday, both films I thought gave a true portrayal of life for black people as it is today. Classics include my all time favs which are Cry the Beloved Country and Beautiful People. (If you are into nature docs, this is a must watch, it was made in the 70's and I watched it as a child, I recently purchased a copy for my kids and it has not aged a day, I loved it as much now as then.)

I try to get my hands on good docs about apartheid but so far, nothing worth mentioning..I only became aware of apartheid when Nelson Mandela was released when I was 16 so just shows how sheltered SA kids were to what was really happening.

Recently got this but havent watched it yet
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303297/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2

and I am trying to get my hands on these:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1764260/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2539704/

Netflix not available in this country and all the good stuff for sale on Amazon is out as they stopped shipping to SA sometime ago thanks to those pesky postal workers with very long fingers! You have to practically sell a kidney if you want anything shipped here and have it safely delivered to your door

Any recommendations your side thats easily available?

 

[shane13]

Botha says,
"I was the scapegoat...""For every arrest I have always got a conviction.”
Amazing record if true, and uncoerced.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Botha-I-was-the-scapegoat-20130308

 

[shane13]

Serious off topic post comming up but anyway

Not really to be honest, we dont have telly so rely heavy on downloading stuff and SA docs are hard to come by if they are not main stream. I loved Totsi and Yesterday, both films I thought gave a true portrayal of life for black people as it is today. Classics include my all time favs which are Cry the Beloved Country and Beautiful People. (If you are into nature docs, this is a must watch, it was made in the 70's and I watched it as a child, I recently purchased a copy for my kids and it has not aged a day, I loved it as much now as then.)

I try to get my hands on good docs about apartheid but so far, nothing worth mentioning..I only became aware of apartheid when Nelson Mandela was released when I was 16 so just shows how sheltered SA kids were to what was really happening.

Recently got this but havent watched it yet
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303297/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2

and I am trying to get my hands on these:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1764260/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2539704/

Netflix not available in this country and all the good stuff for sale on Amazon is out as they stopped shipping to SA sometime ago thanks to those pesky postal workers with very long fingers! You have to practically sell a kidney if you want anything shipped here and have it safely delivered to your door

Any recommendations your side thats easily available?

Well I won't be able to tell what you can get/see.

But when I searched on Best S.A. films, it showed that I saw more than I realized or remembered.

I am watching Stander now--true crime story of SAPS Capt who robbed many banks.
Cry Freedom about Biko and Donald Woods was great.
The unique, "The Gods Must Be Crazy" should be seen.
The SciFi District 9 was good if you like SciFi.

Amazon has streaming.

There were several good Mandela movies. One had Sydney Poitier with M. Caine playing DeKlerk, another was Goodby Bafana which is disputed. Mandela' guard may have played up his role. And there was a very good Donald Southerland movie about him playing a schoolteacher against apartheid.

And a very sad, poignant one which had Barbara Hershey playing activist, Ruth First, wife of Joe Slovo, who paid the ultimate price..
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_World_Apart_(film)

 

[Carol70]

Well I won;t be able to tell what you can get/see.

But when I searched on Best S.A. films, it showed that I saw more than I realized or remembered.

I am watching Stander now--true crime story of SAPS Capt who robbed many banks.
Cry Freedom about Biko and Donald Woods was great.
The unique, "The Gods Must Be Crazy" should be seen.
The SciFi District 9 was good if you like SciFi.

Amazon has streaming.

There were several good Mandela movies. One had Sydney Poitier with M. Caine playing DeKlerk, another was Goodby Bafana which is disputed. Mandela' guard mayahve played up his role. And there was a very good Donald Southerland movie about him playing a schoolteacher against apartheid.

And a very sad, poignant one which had Barbara Hershey playing an activist and Ruth First, wife of Joe Slovo, who paid the ultimate price..
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_World_Apart_(film)

Yes, I enjoyed Stander alot and one of the few hollywood films to get the SA accent right. Also, The Bang Bang Club was very good too imo. Thanks, going to see if I can find the Barbara Hershey film. Also reminded me that I downloaded Cry Freedom awhile ago and havent watched it yet.

And for something completely off topic, the contradiction that is South Africa.
My view every morning on my way to work, sorry bad pics, taken with my crappy cell.

The beauty amongst the horror

 

[liverpoollou]

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-03-07-former-lead-investigator-in-pistorius-case-resigns-from-saps

Could his new job be PR man for Oscar?

 

[liverpoollou]

Oh man! Stop drinking so much wine. We need to talk. I don't want to write an essay on this, but geez.

Here are a few of the reasons (I have more) why I believe he murdered her:

1. She's dead.
2. He pumped three bullets in to her, miraculously hitting her in pitch darkness while she was in a closet toilet with a solid door obscuring her exact location.
4. OP lied about where he was when he fired. He was not outside the bathroom at the entrance, he was in the "ideal" location by the sink, 1.5 meters from Reeva, firing on the diagonal and hit her with amazing accuracy.
5. OP lied about not having on his legs and feeling scared and vulnerable. The bullet trajectory was downward.

POINT 1. How do you know he knew it was Reeva behind the door?
pOINT 2. Do you think he put her in the closet toilet?
POINT 3. Ha, Ha, caught you out...you havent got a Point 3, or are
holding it back?
POINT 4 NOT YET PROVEN
POINT 5 NOT YET PROVEN

I hope your Points 4 and 5 can be proven one way or the other at the trial.

 

[shane13]

Yes, I enjoyed Stander alot and one of the few hollywood films to get the SA accent right. Also, The Bang Bang Club was very good too imo. Thanks, going to see if I can find the Barbara Hershey film. Also reminded me that I downloaded Cry Freedom awhile ago and havent watched it yet.

And for something completely off topic, the contradiction that is South Africa.
My view every morning on my way to work, sorry bad pics, taken with my crappy cell.

The beauty amongst the horror

Very nice.
But if you drive by a man running fast on carbon blades, speed up, duck down, and don't stop to use a toilet.

 

[Carol70]

Very nice.
But if you drive by a man running fast on carbon blades, speed up, duck down, and don't stop to use a toilet.

Hahaha LOL.

 

[shane13]

Hahaha LOL.

And if he should propose to you as you drive by him, please pretend to accept and tell him, he's the one, til, you are safely out of range.

 

[Lois Lane]

And there was a very good Donald Southerland movie about him playing a schoolteacher against apartheid.

SBM

A Dry White Season

Amazon.com: A Dry White Season: Donald Sutherland, Janet Suzman, Zakes Mokae, Jürgen Prochnow, Susan Sarandon, Marlon Brando, Winston Ntshona, Thoko Ntshinga, Leonard Maguire, Gerard Thoolen, Susannah Harker, Andrew Whaley, Kelvin Pike, Euzhan Palcy, Mary Selway, Paula Weinstein, Tim Hampton, André P. Brink, Colin Welland: Movies & TV

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097243/

Great movie.

An excellent performance by Marlon Brando as a barrister.

I first saw this film when it was released in 1989.

 

[Lois Lane]

Could his new job be PR man for Oscar?

On Monday he will begin working as a loss manager at a construction company.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Botha-I-was-the-scapegoat-20130308

A close relative of Botha, who did not wish to be named, told The Star the former officer was taking up a job at a construction company.

“He’s a loss control manager in charge of security for a construction company.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-cop-found-a-better-job-1.1482969#.UTmy5daG39M

 

[Carol70]

POINT 1. How do you know he knew it was Reeva behind the door?
pOINT 2. Do you think he put her in the closet toilet?
POINT 3. Ha, Ha, caught you out...you havent got a Point 3, or are
holding it back?
POINT 4 NOT YET PROVEN
POINT 5 NOT YET PROVEN

I hope your Points 4 and 5 can be proven one way or the other at the trial.

Thanks, I have debated these to death already but your post pretty much sums it up.
1. We all know she is dead and that Oscar shot her, thats not whats in dispute.
2. The loo stall was small, the shots random, head, arm, hip...if she had 3 shots to the head, then totally different story.
3. ??
And am in agreement with Liverpools answer for 4 & 5. Bit much to claim he lied when its not proven yet...and we mostly know that thanks to Botha, alot of what the pros claimed at bail hearing may be moot points by the time trial rolls around.

 

[DriveBy]

Thanks, I have debated these to death already but your post pretty much sums it up.
1. We all know she is dead and that Oscar shot her, thats not whats in dispute.
2. The loo stall was small, the shots random, head, arm, hip...if she had 3 shots to the head, then totally different story.
3. ??
And am in agreement with Liverpools answer for 4 & 5. Bit much to claim he lied when its not proven yet...and we mostly know that thanks to Botha, alot of what the pros claimed at bail hearing may be moot points by the time trial rolls around.

Just have my morning coffee, so I will give you a quick note and discuss more later:

1. OK
2. Yes, it is very small. She was not on the toilet it was testified, so even harder to hit her successfully not knowing even that, let alone three (3) successful hits. The shots were not random. One to the right side of her head, right hip, and right elbow, breaking bones with each shot. That is a target of 6" X 24", and even smaller space.
4 & 5. "Bit much to claim he lied when its not proven yet"
No it is not, this is a website, not a court of law.
Besides, his Affidavit version of events versus what was testified to and logic. I'll go with the Investigators claims and logic on this one.
I don't see the mystery, just his celebrity getting in the way for some.

How do you "mostly know" anything will be "moot?" And why throw WO Botha's name in the mix. WO Botha was the Lead Detective but he is gone, and a General is now in command of the Investigative Teams. WO Botha was only testifying to what all of the Investigators had found up until that time and presented to him, that evidence is not going away just because Roux asked questions and WO Botha responded in a not completely informed manner (estimating distances for example.)

 

[DriveBy]

POINT 1. How do you know he knew it was Reeva behind the door?
pOINT 2. Do you think he put her in the closet toilet?
POINT 3. Ha, Ha, caught you out...you havent got a Point 3, or are
holding it back?
POINT 4 NOT YET PROVEN
POINT 5 NOT YET PROVEN

I hope your Points 4 and 5 can be proven one way or the other at the trial.

1. That is a nonsensical question. He targeted Reeva in the bathroom with a gun and shot her. He targeted her behind the door using her screams (eyewitness Affidavits) and his intimate knowledge of the distances and space within the small toilet stall. You should post why you strongly believe he did not know it was her as he fired four (4) bullets at her. Can't wait to read that. I mean twelve hours ago you were under the strong belief that Reeva had died quickly in the toilet stall.
2. See above
4&5 See my previous post this morning.

 

[liverpoollou]

1. That is a nonsensical question. He targeted Reeva in the bathroom with a gun and shot her. He targeted her behind the door using her screams (eyewitness Affidavits) and his intimate knowledge of the distances and space within the small toilet stall. You should post why you strongly believe he did not know it was her as he fired four (4) bullets at her. Can't wait to read that. I mean twelve hours ago you were under the strong belief that Reeva had died quickly in the toilet stall.
2. See above
4&5 See my previous post this morning.

I do NOT STRONGLY BELIEVE ANYTHING.....I have AN OPEN MIND. I put forward possible scenarios. It is a good job this is only a forum and we are not jury members (I am talking about from a UK standpoint). Otherwise we need not bother with a trial just find him quilty Now. Have these eyewitness Affidavits been read out to the public????? Or do you suggest I should just accept that they exist, ACCEPT that he was wearing his legs. I CANNOT STRONGLY BELIVE ANYTHING. I ACCEPT REEVA IS DEAD, I ACCEPT OSCAR KILLED HER. I don't know anything else for sure........DO YOU???????

 

[Lois Lane]

The former lead investigator in the Oscar Pistorius case told The Star this morning that foreign media had offered $50 000 (R458 000) for a photograph of the toilet door that the athlete shot through when he killed Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine’s Day.

Botha said the offer had been made by an international media house to “an officer Van der Merwe” who worked on the crime scene. He did not know the officer’s first name.

But it wasn’t just the international media that were clamouring for pictures of the inside of Pistorius’s house and the crime scene. Local media were also offering money to police officers.

Botha said he and other officers who worked on the case were offered between R5 000 and R10 000 a picture by local media houses.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/50-000-for-oscar-s-bullet-door-1.1483298#.UTnYFdaG39M