General Discussion Thread #2

[cityslick]

cityslick you are falling for OP line, hook and sink.

If you look back in my post you will see that I pointed out that he prefaced his comments (like brain washing the reader) to think along his lines.

I will give you the example I will highlight the brain washing in bold green. Read the bold the first time and read it the second time skipping over the green bold. You can see how the thought is injected into the readers mind.

On the 13th of February 2013 Reeva would have gone out with her friends and I with my friends. Reeva then called me and asked that we rather spend the evening at home. I agreed and we were content to have a quiet dinner together at home. By about 22h00 on 13 February 2013 we were in our bedroom. She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way. She had given me a present for Valentine's Day but asked me only to open it the next day.

The only reason you are challenging Botha's trajectory comment is you believed what was written to be fact.

My question what proof do see that states his legs were off other than his word?

Inobu

BBM

There is none. What proof is that he legs were on? What proof is that there was an argument?

I'm challenging those who say there was this big argument (along with a number of varied scenarios to support that) so prove their case. What evidence is leading to those conclusions? Simply the holes in his story?

He didn't check on Reeva, therefore there was a big argument? That won't stand in court. It's called reasonable doubt.

 

[danzn16]

Have they done trajectory on the bullets yet to see if had his legs on or off yet? Although it would be easy to fake if he had this plan to get away with it in his head prior to the shooting he could have just got on his knees regardless of whether his prosthetics were on or not...

 

[writer411]

sorry, havent read the whole thread. do we know the cause of the domestic disturbance that caused compound security to go to the residence?

 

[natsound]

BBM

There is none. What proof is that he legs were on? What proof is that there was an argument?

I'm challenging those who say there was this big argument (along with a number of varied scenarios to support that) so prove their case. What evidence is leading to those conclusions? Simply the holes in his story?

He didn't check on Reeva, therefore there was a big argument? That won't stand in court. It's called reasonable doubt.

How about if we don't challenge anyone to prove anything at this point. Let's discuss the case and debate points of view.

 

[Carol70]

sorry, havent read the whole thread. do we know the cause of the domestic disturbance that caused compound security to go to the residence?

Are you asking about that same evening prior to the shooting or before that night? Security were not called that night except after the fact, it was all speculation that the police were there 2 hours before the shooting for a domestic incident.

 

[cityslick]

How about if we don't challenge anyone to prove anything at this point. Let's discuss the case and debate points of view.

Fair enough. From my POI, there isn't anything put forward so far that challenges his version of events. He may be lying about everything or somethings, I just haven't seen it yet.

To me, just because something should of happened (check on Reeva) doesn't mean that it's impossible that it didn't happen the way he says.

 

[jjenny]

Fair enough. From my POI, there isn't anything put forward so far that challenges his version of events. He may be lying about everything or somethings, I just haven't seen it yet.

To me, just because something should of happened (check on Reeva) doesn't mean that it's impossible that it didn't happen the way he says.

And in his version of events, he is admitting to a crime. He believed there was a person in that bathroom and shot at that person multiple times.

 

[cityslick]

And in his version of events, he is admitting to a crime. He believed there was a person in that bathroom and shot at that person multiple times.

Yup, I never said he wasn't guilty of murder. He is. That's why if there is a trial I don't think he's going to walk. It's not a self defense case.

 

[joe jones]

Yes, you are getting it.

He has to have a alibi. The alibi has to have some form or basis to it. He can only derive the story from what took place. To make himself look less of an aggressor his story takes claim to the emotions of Reeva. He starts flipping the scenario. There was a good person and there was a bad person. He is claiming to be the good. t

That's why he uses the terms. "My stump", "I'm vulnerable". He placing himself on the complete opposite end of the aggressive spectrum.

Inobu

if you read affadavits written by good attys they all sound like Oscars, Oscar would have had little imput into how his statement was worded or what went into it or was omitted,

he is paying a shed load of money to get his defence attys to put the best spin on his story, that is there jobs,

so they would have emphasised his vulnerability, they would have chosen to put in Reeva bought him a gift,

it is a masterful piece of work, as it leaves huge wriggle room for Oscar to amend his story or add to it later on,

I am looking forward to watching his legal team at work, and reading any other statements they produce,

whoever worded his affidavit has earned every rand he paid them

 

[joe jones]

And in his version of events, he is admitting to a crime. He believed there was a person in that bathroom and shot at that person multiple times.

because he was in fear for his life and he was protecting his girlfriend, that is not murder if the jurists accept his version of events that would be a different charge all together

 

[Estelle]

Fair enough. From my POI, there isn't anything put forward so far that challenges his version of events. He may be lying about everything or somethings, I just haven't seen it yet.

To me, just because something should of happened (check on Reeva) doesn't mean that it's impossible that it didn't happen the way he says.

So his version seems very probable to you and his family, friends and defence lawyer but the Prosecution Advocate, Nel, did not think so nor did the Judge Nair. They asked many questions.

Some of us like to think out of the box and we are only amateur crime sleuths who are speculating on the probabilities and improbabilities. I look at everything from a psychological and medical perspective because that is my training and experience. Others have other backgrounds and personal experiences which influence their point of view.

The only way OP's version will be tested will be on June 4 at trial.

 

[SweetT]

I think he went off in a rage and his gf went to the bathroom to hide. He beat the door with the bat to get in..didnt work, so shot thru the door. After he realized what he'd done he found the key to the bathroom to get in...he had to think fast and decided he used the bat to rescue her after putting on his legs, cause he knows the angle of the bat etc will show he had his legs on. Had to make the story work for him ya know.

 

[Lola]

Pistorius must live with conscience, Steenkamp father says

fair indication of how credible Reeva's family thinks the story is.

 

[cityslick]

So his version seems very probable to you and his family, friends and defence lawyer but the Prosecution Advocate, Nel, did not think so nor did the Judge Nair. They asked many questions.

Some of us like to think out of the box and we are only amateur crime sleuths who are speculating on the probabilities and improbabilities. I look at everything from a psychological and medical perspective because that is my training and experience. Others have other backgrounds and personal experiences which influence their point of view.

The only way OP's version will be tested will be on June 4 at trial.

His story has questions, it should be challenged. It's just in my nature, I cannot speculate on things where there is nothing collaborative to it. I can't speculate or assume there was this huge fight because there is nothing collaborative that supports it. The only thing that really supports it is the witnesses and it this time I can't put a whole lot of credibility on them. That may change come trial time.

I can't speculate on whether he's got mental issues or stability issues because I haven't seen evidence that supports that. If his ex's come out and say he's violent, then that's lends itself to him having a short fuse.

The only version we have is his. I've never said I completely believe it because I don't. For the same reason as many others, there are holes that need to be explained. It is on the state to prove that he's lying. For their sake I hope that have a better argument then what they put forth in the bail hearing because it was a very weak argument IMO.

 

[Estelle]

I think he went off in a rage and his gf went to the bathroom to hide. He beat the door with the bat to get in..didnt work, so shot thru the door. After he realized what he'd done he found the key to the bathroom to get in...he had to think fast and decided he used the bat to rescue her after putting on his legs, cause he knows the angle of the bat etc will show he had his legs on. Had to make the story work for him ya know.

That's a new thought - trying to beat the door down with the bat first.

I don't understand "used the bat to rescue her". What do you mean?

 

[cityslick]

That's a new thought - trying to beat the door down with the bat first.

I don't understand "used the bat to rescue her". What do you mean?

Interesting, half the door was in the toilet room. How far would he had broken the door before giving up? Then why would he use a key if the door was half broken already?

 

[natsound]

I think he went off in a rage and his gf went to the bathroom to hide. He beat the door with the bat to get in..didnt work, so shot thru the door. After he realized what he'd done he found the key to the bathroom to get in...he had to think fast and decided he used the bat to rescue her after putting on his legs, cause he knows the angle of the bat etc will show he had his legs on. Had to make the story work for him ya know.

The angle of the bat?

 

[jjenny]

because he was in fear for his life and he was protecting his girlfriend, that is not murder if the jurists accept his version of events that would be a different charge all together

Protecting his g/f? He doesn't even check if she is in bed, yet he is protecting her?

 

[cityslick]

Protecting his g/f? He doesn't even check if she is in bed, yet he is protecting her?

Doesn't mean he doesn't think she's there according to him.

 

[Patticake]

I'm surprised more folks are not bothered by the fact that it was the defense that found the bullet casing in the toilet and was missed by the cops. Apparently (when Nair was ripping Botha) a whole lot more was missed/not followed up on. This investigation from the outset is already dirty. How can anyone take what the investigation had produced (especially the witnesses) with serious credibility?

The point where my heart fell was when OP's lawyers outed Botha has having walked through the crime scene with no booties because "they ran out of booties"!

Having watched many trials on TV, but especially the OJ trial where the prosecution was hurt badly by scene contamination, I suspect this will be a hot button.

Of course, the OJ jury was never going to convict him anyway. A long, long, long trial yet they refused to deliberate. At least OP has a judge.

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