General Discussion Thread #2

[shane13]

it works for me Shane, yet we've had no indication of whether or not there was blood IN the bedroom nor where.

Thanks Lola.
It's true that little forensics have been released per se.
Cop on scene must have seen much blood in certain areas and trails etc. to tell reporters certain things immediately. That's what's implied.

 

[Carol70]

Carol or anyone else,

Can you possibly do a timeline of the exact times or at least the sequence of arrivals of people at the crime scene on 14 Feb please?

It's difficult to do it accurately as there are so many conflicting reports. I'm just going by what was said at bail. I've read reports of paramedics arriving after police, his sister being there, a lawyer neighbour and he apparently called his sports car friend at 3.55am before calling for an ambulance.

 

[liverpoollou]

My name was in the post you quoted and then with your comment underneath I mistakenly though it was meant for me.. I understand now completely.

I went back and saw your name mentioned, it didn't register. Don't know the history of all this......But never mind.

 

[Carol70]

I like your comments especially ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.

I want to see OP on the stand too. I have been watching Jodi Arias on the stand and she loves being there.

But will OP have a choice or not? Do those accused of premeditated murder have to take the stand in South Africa or can OP let his solicitor do it for him?

Nope, he can choose if he wishes or not. I hope he takes it too. Sadly, we may not be able to see him live on the stand if he gives evidence.

 

[liverpoollou]

:rocker:

You are good!

Reeva was 30, OP 26. Reeva had just gotten out of an abusive relationship, and at 30 she was blossoming and independent, not in any need of or in a rush for a new long-term relationship. OP had lost his long term relationship where he could dominate a pretty blonde, make her submissive or subservient to his mega-life and desires, and he wanted to fill that hole in his life. He was rushing for a new relationship like the one he had with Samantha Taylor. Anyway...

Please permit me to change a couple of things from your post for my thought process:

Maybe they had had a lover's tiff or - maybe he proposed and she refused and he went to bed angry, she upset.

He could have been brooding ever since and suffering from narcissistic injury and he starts the arguing all over again at 1:00 AM. It reaches a peak at 3:20 AM and he thinks, "If I can't have her, nobody will" and he kills her in a rage. He starts to plan the intruder story to cover up his actions.

Be interested to see if an engagement ring was found in the bedroom, as a surprise Valentine's Day gift.

 

[DriveBy]

I never saw this before:

But it was Samantha’s mom Trish Taylor who had a few things to say on Facebook when she heard Oscar had been arrested and charged with murder:

“I am so glad that Sammy is safe and sound and out of the clutches of that man – there were a few occasions where things could have gone wrong with her and his gun during the time they dated,”

Oh my, what could she be trying to say, without getting sued by OP? How could anything go wrong if OP had never pointed his 9mm Taurus semi-automatic pistol at Ms. Taylor? I guess he could have been using it for juggling practice while she was in front of him, that's my best guess. (sarcasm)

 

[Estelle]

To clarify: WO Both did testify that the door has four bullet holes, and the trajectory of the shots was downward. Also, the trajectory confirmed that OP fired at the door on the diagonal, standing in front of the sink.

Zina had said that the police said the door was not important any more.

Do you have a link to that please, Zina?

I thought that they said whether he had his legs on or not was not important any more. Probably because he could have held his hand up to fire the gun if he did not have his legs on.

One of my many theories is that he beat the door down to destroy evidence of the bullet holes and make it more difficult for forensics to work out what he really did and how he did it. but I guess they have put it together my now and worked things out.

I still think he lost his temper with her and bashed her on the back of her skull with the cricket bat a few times - thinks for a while how he will cover it up - then fires 3 shots in the bedroom - she bleeds and dies there - 17 minutes to phone or think - he carries her in there and she is slumped against the toilet - does not bother locking the door - fires 3/4 more bullets through the door - then bashes the door down with the cricket bat and puts the bullet which hit her head into the toilet and flushes it but it did not go down.

 

[SyraKelly]

I like your comments especially ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.

I want to see OP on the stand too. I have been watching Jodi Arias on the stand and she loves being there.

But will OP have a choice or not? Do those accused of premeditated murder have to take the stand in South Africa or can OP let his solicitor do it for him?

OP & JA make the perfect couple!!
OP should have that enter at your own risk on his front door!
JA should have a tat on her forehead-sleep with me at your own risk!This girl is insane!!

I don't live in SA,so I don't know the answer to your other question

 

[DriveBy]

Be interested to see if an engagement ring was found in the bedroom, as a surprise Valentine's Day gift.

My thoughts right now: Reeva made a really romantic Valentine's Day gift for OP, framed photos of them having fun, very personal and heartfelt. I believe they opened it together, and OP was really moved. That spurred him and he wanted Reeva to take Samantha's place in his life and he tried to move the relationship further along than Reeva was willing to accept. Then the rage came early in the morning.

We will see.

 

[Carol70]

Zina had said that the police said the door was not important any more.

Do you have a link to that please, Zina?

I thought that they said whether he had his legs on or not was not important any more. Probably because he could have held his hand up to fire the gun if he did not have his legs on.

One of my many theories is that he beat the door down to destroy evidence of the bullet holes and make it more difficult for forensics to work out what he really did and how he did it. but I guess they have put it together my now and worked things out.

I still think he lost his temper with her and bashed her on the back of her skull with the cricket bat a few times - thinks for a while how he will cover it up - then fires 3 shots in the bedroom - she bleeds and dies there - 17 minutes to phone or think - he carries her in there and she is slumped against the toilet - does not bother locking the door - fires 3/4 more bullets through the door - then bashes the door down with the cricket bat and puts the bullet which hit her head into the toilet and flushes it but it did not go down.

Estelle, I would imagine that if she was shot in the bedroom there would be evidence to back up that theory..blood splatter etc. and Botha sat and swore under oath that there was no evidence to contradict OP statement. If there was an indication she was shot in the bedroom, it would have been mentioned at bail and OP's statement refuted.

 

[Carol70]

My thoughts right now: Reeva made a really romantic Valentine's Day gift for OP, framed photos of them having fun, very personal and heartfelt. I believe they opened it together, and OP was really moved. That spurred him and he wanted Reeva to take Samantha's place in his life and he tried to move the relationship further along than Reeva was willing to accept. Then the rage came early in the morning.

We will see.

And amazingly, Reevas best friend stated that Reeva told her that if OP asked for her hand in marriage, she would say yes.

 

[liverpoollou]

Reeva really liked Oscar and they were dating. Reeva is a "mature" young woman; I haven't read anywhere that she dated many men back to back. She had so many interpersonal relationships in her life and she was a caring woman with a purpose in life - helping people that she didn't even know through domestic violence awareness efforts. And her career had just kicked in to high gear, her TV program would air in just days, making her personal life public and she would know the value of behaving in a "clean" way.

It seems to me that she was thriving without the need to complicate her life by sending a romantic text to an old flame.
I believe the Massive amount of text message that they are combing through means "all of her texts" including ones that show OP was abusive to her in some of his messages leading up to the night of the murder.

I really will have to make myself clearer in future......I didn't mean she sent a text to an old (or new) flame....I meant she could have received one....innocently, I mean over here Valentine's Day is treated like a joke, you are not supposed to sign them, so you could (if you knew his address) send one to your 90 year old milkman just for a joke. But some jokes backfire.

 

[SyraKelly]

And amazingly, Reevas best friend stated that Reeva told her that if OP asked for her hand in marriage, she would say yes.

I wouldn't go to a party with him,let alone marry him!!!

What a shame,her parents will never see her get married to a nice young man & have grandchildren!

 

[DriveBy]

The detectives and forensic team would be able to quickly determine the position of the shooter using the entrance / exit points of the shots that were fired in the door. They push dowels through the gunshot holes at the scene and viola the shooter was standing in front of the sink firing on the diagonal, downward. They will use other tools and measurements as well, but they would do this first at the crime scene.

Here is an example of a bullet trajectory kit:

https://www.lynnpeavey.com/product_info.php?products_id=1083

And while this is not the best image representation to use to demonstrate, you will get the idea:

http://www.thisplaceisastranger.com/files/reg/gunzone_policecar.jpg

That is why the legs thing does not matter anymore. They have forensic proof that he was wearing his legs.

 

[natsound]

I have no idea how long OP could have been premeditating this crime as I see multiple cover ups which took some planning.

But if he was angry with her a day or two before, he could have planned this to happen on Valentine's Day to show his absolute hatred of her when she was hoping via her tweets for a romantic surprise.

I have started wondering about this lately as possibly having been planned more in advance than we might have thought before.

Do we have evidence that she was the one who actually phoned him to change their plans as they were each going out with their same sex friends on the 13th originally? And she was going to give a talk on the 14th. Or could he have phoned her?

I have been thinking of the ladders being there. Now if I had had work done on my place and I was security conscious, I would have made sure those ladders were put away. The ladders give credence to his story.

He did not have a gift for her.

Maybe they had had a lover's tiff and they had called it off but had not told anyone yet - maybe he proposed and she refused.

He could have been brooding ever since and suffering from narcissistic injury. He thinks, "if I can't have her, nobody will". He starts to plan her demise and thinks of the intruder story for the next time she comes to his house.

She might have told him she just wants to be friends. As she had already ordered the photo frame for Valentine's Day before they split, she phones him to see him to give him the gift. He invites her over for dinner. She had not planned to stay as they were just good friends now. He tries to get her to change her mind about marriage but she does not change her mind. He refuses to let her go and locks her in the bedroom and the rest is history......

I don't think this was planned any earlier, because OP would have easily been able to take himself out of the equation had it been planned hours or days in advance.

As far as Valentine's Day, I think that emotions were heightened. OP may have been angry that she had plans which didn't include him for V Day.... this is not something I have read anywhere, just a stab at making sense of it all.

 

[DriveBy]

And amazingly, Reevas best friend stated that Reeva told her that if OP asked for her hand in marriage, she would say yes.

Well the follow on to that is "She is dead." Her future husband murdered her.

 

[DriveBy]

Two attorneys took opposite views on the ABC 20/20 special. The one playing the Defense drops to his knees and demonstrates that he can put his hand above his head to fire downward at the door. OP supporters love that and use it to defend his lie about being on his stumps when he fired at Reeva.

The thing for me about "the representation that OP "could" have raised his hand above his head and fired downwards" is just pushing it too far to give an explanation for the facts, torturing the facts trying to squeeze out a plausible explanation.

1. OP had to have training to get his gun permit.
2. He bragged on Twitter about his accuracy / marksmanship.
3. So he knows how to properly handle a pistol, how to hold it, how to point it, how to sight his target, and how to fire it.
4. He loves to shoot, and he frequently went to the firing range to relax when he could not sleep.
5. Accuracy is the goal of target practice shooting. There is no "hand over head" shooting allowed. If someone did that they would be banned for life. So OP never did that before he killed Reeva.
6. He was building an arsenal of fantastic weapons, it was an obsession to his young mind.

To believe that the Marksman /Gun Enthusiast that I described above, when he was under threat to his life, would throw out everything that he had learned and practiced and fire a weapon over his head, without seeing or knowing where his target was behind that door, and not sighting / aiming at what he wants to shoot, is just too far a stretch for me.

 

[natsound]

My thoughts right now: Reeva made a really romantic Valentine's Day gift for OP, framed photos of them having fun, very personal and heartfelt. I believe they opened it together, and OP was really moved. That spurred him and he wanted Reeva to take Samantha's place in his life and he tried to move the relationship further along than Reeva was willing to accept. Then the rage came early in the morning.

We will see.

I like that theory. My guess is that she was moving in a serious direction with OP, but as a successful woman with lots of sexy pictures out there, he was insecure, and thus the results of Feb 14.

 

[NocturnalLady]

It just indicates the supreme confidence he had that he'd get off. The bawling in court was probably connected to the realisation that his theory was a bit premature. He's never seemed repentent in the slightest, more annoyed that he's in this situation after assuming his intruder story would be accepted without question. As for having to sell off a horse or two to help fund his legal costs, pass me the tissues.

I honestly think OP was surprised to be in court AT ALL. He was never held accountable before so why would he think he would be this time? I think he truly believed that his story would be swallowed whole and that he would be riding high in the public opinion from the huge boost of sympathy that would be coming his way due to the "tragedy". I'd be willing to bet that OP even pictured the tearful interviews he was going to be able to give and that the story would play out as yet another tragedy that he was miraculously able to rise above.

 

[liverpoollou]

Zina had said that the police said the door was not important any more.

Do you have a link to that please, Zina?

I thought that they said whether he had his legs on or not was not important any more. Probably because he could have held his hand up to fire the gun if he did not have his legs on.

One of my many theories is that he beat the door down to destroy evidence of the bullet holes and make it more difficult for forensics to work out what he really did and how he did it. but I guess they have put it together my now and worked things out.

I still think he lost his temper with her and bashed her on the back of her skull with the cricket bat a few times - thinks for a while how he will cover it up - then fires 3 shots in the bedroom - she bleeds and dies there - 17 minutes to phone or think - he carries her in there and she is slumped against the toilet - does not bother locking the door - fires 3/4 more bullets through the door - then bashes the door down with the cricket bat and puts the bullet which hit her head into the toilet and flushes it but it did not go down.

Spot on.