General Discussion Thread #2

[liverpoollou]

For what it's worth, I read S.G.'s witness statement and I did not consider it a defense of O.P.

As one of the last people to communicate with the couple, and given her close friendship with Reeva, I considered her witness statement relevant. And I appreciate that she and her boyfriend (O.P.'s best friend) specifically mentioned Reeva's concern about things moving too fast.

Just my opinion.

You know what, I have been trying to located those witness statments that were read out at the bail hearing, without success I might add. There was something said in one of them that I thought at the time "I must check that out". Can't remember what is was now.....something to do with what Reeva was intending to do on the night of the 13th, but changed her mind to stay with Oscar. Are they on the web?

 

[natsound]

Botha also later said he had not been prepared to discuss much of the forensics at the bail hearing, that the level of questioning on such matters was unexpected. And he said there that the bullets were fired in a downward trajectory, contradicting's OP story, thereby contradicting his own statement that there was no evidence presented that contradicted OP's statement! I don't think we can make too much of what Botha said at the hearing.

So is the door in one piece or is it smashed by a cricket bat? I want to know!

 

[DriveBy]

Also, physics will surely come into play if this defense theory is presented during trial. Does the trajetory in the door match where the bullets would have traveled if OP had raised his hand and fired?

Did you watch the video I posted 10 minutes ago titled "How not to shoot a gun," and I wrote just before that about OP and his firearms expertise? Check those two, you will get the answer.

 

[Zinn]

Regarding things moving very quickly, the witness statements give a little more insight into this. S.G. (Reeva's friend) specifically states the relationship started as a friendship, they went to the sports awards function as friends in early November, and eventually began dating. Don't know exactly when, but perhaps it's safe to say late November or early December. I say this because later in the statement it's clear they were dating by December. Maybe someone else knows exactly when this change in relationship status occurred.

O.P.'s cousin, G.B., also provided a statement. According to G.B., O.P. told him in December that he and Reeva intended to find a house in Johannesburg. Yes, I'd say that's moving very fast. He further stated he spoke with O.P. on the night on 2/13 and O.P. told him he'd just bought a new house in Johannesburg. G.B. took this to mean that the house hunting with Reeva had been successful, but I can't tell if that was just an assumption on his part.

So have we discussed this in this thread yet? Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing a discussion around this new house and the implications of it.

 

[Zinn]

You know what, I have been trying to located those witness statments that were read out at the bail hearing, without success I might add. There was something said in one of them that I thought at the time "I must check that out". Can't remember what is was now.....something to do with what Reeva was intending to do on the night of the 13th, but changed her mind to stay with Oscar. Are they on the web?

Here's a link to the statements: http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/justin-nichlas-divaris-witness-statement.pdf

 

[Estelle]

You are forgetting that if he misrepresented anything or lied, it is perjury. It's a criminal offence and he will be in a ton of trouble.

IMO that is probably the real reason that was his last day on this case. He has now probably been forced to resign presumably he got a new better paying job but ostensibly it was because he allegedly attempted murder but I think his performance in front of the world's media was an embarrassment to SA.

 

[DriveBy]

Yes, I read somewhere that it was found by her body smashed.....But what do you believe????? I don't know what to..

You know I thought that he was a bad guy before I just read your post. But now I really wish that I could use the words that I want to express myself. What a jerk!

 

[SyraKelly]

My thoughts right now: Reeva made a really romantic Valentine's Day gift for OP, framed photos of them having fun, very personal and heartfelt. I believe they opened it together, and OP was really moved. That spurred him and he wanted Reeva to take Samantha's place in his life and he tried to move the relationship further along than Reeva was willing to accept. Then the rage came early in the morning.

We will see.

They had only been together a few months,what is your idea of moving the relationship further?

 

[Estelle]

For what it's worth, I read S.G.'s witness statement and I did not consider it a defense of O.P.

As one of the last people to communicate with the couple, and given her close friendship with Reeva, I considered her witness statement relevant. And I appreciate that she and her boyfriend (O.P.'s best friend) specifically mentioned Reeva's concern about things moving too fast.

Just my opinion.

It felt to me as if she had been asked to say that by OP eg That if he asked her to marry him, Reeva would (maybe one day). I did not believe it when she said it. Nine weeks knowing each other?

But I am a bit concerned as of tonight when Sam says Reeva was stalking her on Instagram for a long time while she was still dating Oscar. I thought they only met in November so I cannot understand that. i am now wondering if Reeva pursued him!

 

[DriveBy]

Regarding things moving very quickly, the witness statements give a little more insight into this. S.G. (Reeva's friend) specifically states the relationship started as a friendship, they went to the sports awards function as friends in early November, and eventually began dating. Don't know exactly when, but perhaps it's safe to say late November or early December. I say this because later in the statement it's clear they were dating by December. Maybe someone else knows exactly when this change in relationship status occurred.

O.P.'s cousin, G.B., also provided a statement. According to G.B., O.P. told him in December that he and Reeva intended to find a house in Johannesburg. Yes, I'd say that's moving very fast. He further stated he spoke with O.P. on the night on 2/13 and O.P. told him he'd just bought a new house in Johannesburg. G.B. took this to mean that the house hunting with Reeva had been successful, but I can't tell if that was just an assumption on his part.

So have we discussed this in this thread yet? Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing a discussion around this new house and the implications of it.

So he told Reeva on the 13th about actually buying the house too! Up to that point it had been musings between to new lovers of fun things in the future, possibilities. But he acted, bought the house; she didn't want to move to Johannesburg that fast. A night of arguing, etc...

A month before he killed her and bought that house he said:

Quote:
But in the interview published just weeks before tragedy struck, he told how he found it hard to trust after his previous *relationship with student Samantha Taylor ended sourly – allegedly with him threatening to break a man’s legs.

By the time he sat down to answer questions, Pistorius and Reeva were already dating but the pair had yet to go public.

He told February’s edition of Afrikaan women’s mag Sarie: “It’s difficult to find the right person, one who is reliable and will keep your private things private.

"It takes a very special person to be in a relationship with a sportsman. It’s not an easy life.

“You need someone who either can travel with you or is super-accommodating.

"It is a challenge, yes. I have not yet found the right person, but that’s OK.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/last-oscar-pistorius-interview-before-1723955

 

[SyraKelly]

She would "probably" say yes. There again she could "probably" say no. Anyway it's is hearsay.........The only person who could answer that is unfortuntely not here.

I fine the statement she would marry him a little insincere-she had only been dating him a few months & in those few months was warned about him by good friends

 

[Carol70]

IMO that is probably the real reason that was his last day on this case. He has now probably been forced to resign presumably he got a new better paying job but ostensibly it was because he allegedly attempted murder but I think his performance in front of the world's media was an embarrassment to SA.

Absolutely, and I just want to mention about the bullet trajectory that Botha stated that ballistics was not completed therefore giving his own opinion and not fact.

Ballistics are still dealing with the angles of the projectiles fired, says Botha

.

And lastly, for prosperity

10.45am GMT
Botha admits he couldn't find anything at the crime scene inconsistent with Pistorius's accidental shooting version of events.

 

[Estelle]

Regarding things moving very quickly, the witness statements give a little more insight into this. S.G. (Reeva's friend) specifically states the relationship started as a friendship, they went to the sports awards function as friends in early November, and eventually began dating. Don't know exactly when, but perhaps it's safe to say late November or early December. I say this because later in the statement it's clear they were dating by December. Maybe someone else knows exactly when this change in relationship status occurred.

O.P.'s cousin, G.B., also provided a statement. According to G.B., O.P. told him in December that he and Reeva intended to find a house in Johannesburg. Yes, I'd say that's moving very fast. He further stated he spoke with O.P. on the night on 2/13 and O.P. told him he'd just bought a new house in Johannesburg. G.B. took this to mean that the house hunting with Reeva had been successful, but I can't tell if that was just an assumption on his part.

So have we discussed this in this thread yet? Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing a discussion around this new house and the implications of it.

I must say I did not believe a word that man stated. If it's true, then OP was desperate and in a real hurry. I have read they were dating for nine weeks so that was since early December. Why did he have to buy a new house? I think this man assumed that they would both live there or OP put him up to saying it as it is only another investment property. I wonder if the outside OP was the same as the inside OP.

IMO OP's agenda was to plant the seed to the court that they were very much in love so why would he want to kill her? After all, they were going to get married and live together the next week!!!

 

[Estelle]

You know I thought that he was a bad guy before I just read your post. But now I really wish that I could use the words that I want to express myself. What a jerk!

I am now convinced that was what I read and it proved to me that he killed Reeva intentionally. Fancy destroying her gift. Cecil Myers also destroyed a photo she had at his home of Oscar. It is now coming back to me. They were reported in the first few days.

 

[Zinn]

I fine the statement she would marry him a little insincere-she had only been dating him a few months & in those few months was warned about him by good friends

I have no reason not to believe what S.G. said in her witness statement. She and Reeva had been friends for six years.

I also know from personal experience that it's possible to get caught up in things moving too quickly during the infatuation stage of a relationship. Add to that this guy is/was a national hero, and some might describe him as charming and attractive. I can easily imagine being conflicted by having genuine feelings of attraction and affection while also feeling things were moving too fast.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[DriveBy]

They had only been together a few months,what is your idea of moving the relationship further?

My guess is he either asked her to marry him or he wanted her to move to Johannesburg. She wasn't ready...

I can't find the link, but it is a fact that Domestic Homicides are most often triggered by the victim refusing to do what the assailant wants, unable to do what the assailant wants, or wanting to leave the relationship.

 

[Estelle]

So he told Reeva on the 13th about actually buying the house too! Up to that point it had been musings between to new lovers of fun things in the future, possibilities. But he acted, bought the house; she didn't want to move to Johannesburg that fast. A night of arguing, etc...

A month before he killed her and bought that house he said:

Quote:
But in the interview published just weeks before tragedy struck, he told how he found it hard to trust after his previous *relationship with student Samantha Taylor ended sourly – allegedly with him threatening to break a man’s legs.

By the time he sat down to answer questions, Pistorius and Reeva were already dating but the pair had yet to go public.

He told February’s edition of Afrikaan women’s mag Sarie: “It’s difficult to find the right person, one who is reliable and will keep your private things private.

"It takes a very special person to be in a relationship with a sportsman. It’s not an easy life.

“You need someone who either can travel with you or is super-accommodating.

"It is a challenge, yes. I have not yet found the right person, but that’s OK.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/last-oscar-pistorius-interview-before-1723955

So in January 2013 he told the press that he had not found the right person yet and a month later that wrong person is dead????

 

[Zinn]

I must say I did not believe a word that man stated. If it's true, then OP was desperate and in a real hurry. I have read they were dating for nine weeks so that was since early December. Why did he have to buy a new house? I think this man assumed that they would both live there or OP put him up to saying it as itn is only another investment property. I wonder if the outside OP was the same as the inside OP.

IMO OP's agenda was to plant the seed to the court that they were very much in love so why would he want to kill her. After all, they were going to get married and live together the nesxt week!!!

BBM.

If that was his intention, it was misguided. Pushing for an immediate commitment is a sign of an abusive person, particularly when seen with other warning signs (see link below). This is sometimes overlooked in the early stages of a relationship because emotions are running high and it is seen as flattering, but in retrospect it is often recognized as an early warning sign of controlling behavior. If you've never seen the Dear Abby column on this topic (it has been run a few times) I urge you to check it out. (Mods can feel free to delete link if inappropriate.) I am not stating O.P. is an abuser, I'm saying that a claim of house hunting a week into a relationship should be seen as more of a warning sign than a sign of a healthy relationship.

http://domesticdiversions.com/index.php/dear-abbys-15-ways-to-spot-an-abuser/

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Estelle]

I have no reason not to believe what S.G. said in her witness statement. She and Reeva had been friends for six years.

I also know from personal experience that it's possible to get caught up in things moving too quickly during the infatuation stage of a relationship. Add to that this guy is/was a national hero, and some might describe him as charming and attractive. I can easily imagine being conflicted by having genuine feelings of attraction and affection while also feeling things were moving too fast.

All of the above is just my opinion.

I think she was gilding the lily a little and probably believed OP's story at this stage so she was just helping him along telling a little white lie.

 

[liverpoollou]

Regarding things moving very quickly, the witness statements give a little more insight into this. S.G. (Reeva's friend) specifically states the relationship started as a friendship, they went to the sports awards function as friends in early November, and eventually began dating. Don't know exactly when, but perhaps it's safe to say late November or early December. I say this because later in the statement it's clear they were dating by December. Maybe someone else knows exactly when this change in relationship status occurred.

O.P.'s cousin, G.B., also provided a statement. According to G.B., O.P. told him in December that he and Reeva intended to find a house in Johannesburg. Yes, I'd say that's moving very fast. He further stated he spoke with O.P. on the night on 2/13 and O.P. told him he'd just bought a new house in Johannesburg. G.B. took this to mean that the house hunting with Reeva had been successful, but I can't tell if that was just an assumption on his part.

So have we discussed this in this thread yet? Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing a discussion around this new house and the implications of it.

As far as I know, this hasn't been discussed, but I had read somewhere about a new house for both of them, but I dismissed it as speculation.