General Discussion Thread #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
I totally agree with you, sorrell skye. Every time we see the name Anneliese Burgess, I feel we're given a translation of the truth through a PR filter. They must think the public is really gullible; unfortunately I'm afraid they're correct.

IMO you are right on target about the timing.

TY Kitty! :)

I agree with you: every time Anneliese Burgess gives a statement on OP's behalf, the public gets a pretzel-shaped version of the truth. She's his PR mouthpiece, so I suppose it's to be expected. I trust PR folks about as much as I trust any product advertisement. They're all trying to peddle something at the consumers' expense, so it behooves us to be informed & wise, doesn't it?

I think they're hoping the public is gullible, and I also think they're hoping any potential future athletic sponsors will believe their PR spin, otherwise OP doesn't have a hope in Hades of competing in any professional track meets any time soon.

At this point in time, OP is a tainted brand. It's AB's job as his PR person to try to rehabilitate the OP brand. I think she's got her work cut out for her.
 
Article from March 7 that has probably been posted/quoted in previous threads, but bears repeating.

The South African athlete's spectacular fall from grace shocked many who were inspired by his remarkable story of overcoming adversity to become an Olympian and a national hero.

But not everyone.

"Here, I think, you had a troubled athlete," said South African sports journalist Graeme Joffe. "Not so much this incredible role model for the rest of the world -- no question about that -- but deep down, this was a troubled athlete."

Joffe is one of the few South African journalists who has been critical of Pistorius. He said the PR machine behind the man they call Blade Runner has all but made him untouchable.

"So many incidents have happened and they've been well documented over the last five or six years with Oscar Pistorius," said Joffe, who worked at CNN in the 1990s. "These kinds of cases have disappeared."


http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/world/africa/pistorius-image

It's refreshing to read a sports journalist's commentary that dares to challenge the status quo. I commend Graeme Joffe.
 
TY Kitty! :)

I agree with you: every time Anneliese Burgess gives a statement on OP's behalf, the public gets a pretzel-shaped version of the truth. She's his PR mouthpiece, so I suppose it's to be expected. I trust PR folks about as much as I trust any product advertisement. They're all trying to peddle something at the consumers' expense, so it behooves us to be informed & wise, doesn't it?

I think they're hoping the public is gullible, and I also think they're hoping any potential future athletic sponsors will believe their PR spin, otherwise OP doesn't have a hope in Hades of competing in any professional track meets any time soon.

At this point in time, OP is a tainted brand. It's AB's job as his PR person to try to rehabilitate the OP brand. I think she's got her work cut out for her.

So this could be quite a fun game for us going forward! - whenever there is a new PR statement we can guess what REAL soon-to-be-released news bombshell there is that they are trying to do advance damage control for.
 
So this could be quite a fun game for us going forward! - whenever there is a new PR statement we can guess what REAL soon-to-be-released news bombshell there is that they are trying to do advance damage control for.

Brilliant idea, Mango!

Shall we make it a drinking game, or would that be in bad form? :p
 
TY Kitty! :)

I agree with you: every time Anneliese Burgess gives a statement on OP's behalf, the public gets a pretzel-shaped version of the truth. She's his PR mouthpiece, so I suppose it's to be expected. I trust PR folks about as much as I trust any product advertisement. They're all trying to peddle something at the consumers' expense, so it behooves us to be informed & wise, doesn't it?

I think they're hoping the public is gullible, and I also think they're hoping any potential future athletic sponsors will believe their PR spin, otherwise OP doesn't have a hope in Hades of competing in any professional track meets any time soon.

At this point in time, OP is a tainted brand. It's AB's job as his PR person to try to rehabilitate the OP brand. I think she's got her work cut out for her.

She's basically doing damage control until the trial. At which point they are hoping that it is found that it was just an accidental shooting. At that point, if he gets out with a minimal or no sentence, he'll resume his 'life'. We've seen it with other athletes in the past (Ray Lewis, Michael Vick) so I don't see why now would be any different.
 
She's basically doing damage control until the trial. At which point they are hoping that it is found that it was just an accidental shooting. At that point, if he gets out with a minimal or no sentence, he'll resume his 'life'. We've seen it with other athletes in the past (Ray Lewis, Michael Vick) so I don't see why now would be any different.

Of course she's doing damage control until the trial - especially if this case doesn't go to trial for several years (which, according to my reading, is highly likely).

Potential court verdict aside, I think at this point a pressing issue for OP's PR team is the immediate task of rehabilitating his gravely tarnished image in the hope of securing an athletic sponsorship, since Nike cancelled/suspended their contract in the wake of the murder charge, not to mention the cancellation of his other endorsements with sunglasses brand Oakley and fragrance brand Thierry Mugler.

Without these contracts, OP has virtually no income, which is why he is reportedly selling off his expensive McLaren sportscar, real estate, & at least one of his race horses to fund his legal fees.

When & if this case goes to trial, I don't envision OP will be able to resume his life as he knew it before he shot & killed Reeva, especially if the case takes years to go to trial. A pro athlete's career is a short-lived one, even in the best of circumstances with no interruptions to that career.

Even if OP is ultimately convicted of culpable homicide & gets off with a suspended sentence (which I highly doubt & seriously hope he doesn't), I believe his pro athletic career is over.

His PR folks can spin to their desperate heart's content, but I don't think they can spin OP's fetid straw into profitable gold.

I think any potential sponsors (if there are any) more than likely view OP as contaminated goods & don't want their brand associated with his name. I don't think any major sports brand will be willing to gamble on him any time soon. I think that by the time the stink wears off (if ever) OP will be a washed-up has-been. MOO
 
Of course she's doing damage control until the trial - especially if this case doesn't go to trial for several years (which, according to my reading, is highly likely).

Potential court verdict aside, I think at this point a pressing issue for OP's PR team is the immediate task of rehabilitating his gravely tarnished image in the hope of securing an athletic sponsorship, since Nike cancelled/suspended their contract in the wake of the murder charge, not to mention the cancellation of his other endorsements with sunglasses brand Oakley and fragrance brand Thierry Mugler.

Without these contracts, OP has virtually no income, which is why he is reportedly selling off his expensive McLaren sportscar, real estate, & at least one of his race horses to fund his legal fees.

When & if this case goes to trial, I don't envision OP will be able to resume his life as he knew it before he shot & killed Reeva, especially if the case takes years to go to trial. A pro athlete's career is a short-lived one, even in the best of circumstances with no interruptions to that career.

Even if OP is ultimately convicted of culpable homicide & gets off with a suspended sentence (which I highly doubt & seriously hope he doesn't), I believe his pro athletic career is over.

His PR folks can spin to their desperate heart's content, but I don't think they can spin OP's fetid straw into profitable gold.

I think any potential sponsors (if there are any) more than likely view OP as contaminated goods & don't want their brand associated with his name. I don't think any major sports brand will be willing to gamble on him any time soon. I think that by the time the stink wears off (if ever) OP will be a washed-up has-been. MOO


Since it is looking more and more likely that a return to racing is imminent, I think this discussion of the likelihood of sponsorship is interesting.

There are three main ways that track and field athletes make money:

1. sponsorships
2. winning races (both prizemoney,which is not that much and bonuses from sponsors for winning)
3. appearance fees for competing (this can be big depending on how famous you are)

Here is a discussion of the system, related to Usain Bolt
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/08/04/how-usain-bolt-earns-20-million-a-year/2/

In OP's case, as far as I know Ossur (his blades manufacturer) has not officially cut ties. But not sure he has any other significant sponsors left. And in any case he has always used the same pair of blades in competition for the last few years - the pair that was tested and approved for able-bodied races. So not like he needs tons of pairs.

But, as Sorrel says, his time is running out as an athlete. He had planned to retire at 29, after Rio, which is already the tail-end of the average sprinter's peak (27-29 supposedly).

Nevertheless, I have said before that I believe that while fame is golden, notoriety still sells tickets. So I think in time some companies may be willing to sponsor him and some races will pay appearance fees because the race (perhaps naively) wants the attention.

Maybe you have seen the recent Tiger Woods Nike ad slogan?... "Winning takes care of everything." ;)
 
Of course she's doing damage control until the trial - especially if this case doesn't go to trial for several years (which, according to my reading, is highly likely).

Potential court verdict aside, I think at this point a pressing issue for OP's PR team is the immediate task of rehabilitating his gravely tarnished image in the hope of securing an athletic sponsorship, since Nike cancelled/suspended their contract in the wake of the murder charge, not to mention the cancellation of his other endorsements with sunglasses brand Oakley and fragrance brand Thierry Mugler.

Without these contracts, OP has virtually no income, which is why he is reportedly selling off his expensive McLaren sportscar, real estate, & at least one of his race horses to fund his legal fees.

When & if this case goes to trial, I don't envision OP will be able to resume his life as he knew it before he shot & killed Reeva, especially if the case takes years to go to trial. A pro athlete's career is a short-lived one, even in the best of circumstances with no interruptions to that career.

Even if OP is ultimately convicted of culpable homicide & gets off with a suspended sentence (which I highly doubt & seriously hope he doesn't), I believe his pro athletic career is over.

His PR folks can spin to their desperate heart's content, but I don't think they can spin OP's fetid straw into profitable gold.

I think any potential sponsors (if there are any) more than likely view OP as contaminated goods & don't want their brand associated with his name. I don't think any major sports brand will be willing to gamble on him any time soon. I think that by the time the stink wears off (if ever) OP will be a washed-up has-been. MOO

I don't disagree but then again I thought the same thing would happen to Mike Vick (being damaged goods) and he pretty much resumed his career where he left off before going to jail. Granted the crimes are vastly different but the outcry was pretty loud at the time (and still is with a number of people).

I think the key thing to remember, especially when it comes to athletes, is if a brand sells, sponsors with get on board, despite past history.
 
I don't disagree but then again I thought the same thing would happen to Mike Vick (being damaged goods) and he pretty much resumed his career where he left off before going to jail. Granted the crimes are vastly different but the outcry was pretty loud at the time (and still is with a number of people).

I think the key thing to remember, especially when it comes to athletes, is if a brand sells, sponsors with get on board, despite past history.

BBM

I think that's the point, C. Michael Vick killed animals. With Ray Lewis, it was a question of did he or didn't he kill a human being. Ray Lewis' career eclipsed what he was accused of.

OP has ADMITTED he shot and killed RS. The question is why, not did he or didn't he. The only excuse possible for what OP did is what he's trying to push in his affidavit.. that it was a horrible mistake. But horrible mistakes where you kill a human being in a blood bath don't tend to be forgiven over time, IMO. I believe OP is FOREVER tarnished. He can't be redeemed enough to have people wanting to buy any type of goods with his name on them. I can't see any crowd at an international track race embracing him. I think the best he can hope for is to sell his story to someone.

He wants so badly to get his life back to normal... hence going out on the town to gauge reaction. I can't believe no pictures of this night out have surfaced yet! I have a hard time putting a lot of faith in "he said/she said" stories in the media. There are reports that he was out, doing shots, slapping behinds and yukking it up, but I want to see if that was really his demeanor. It's very possible that the story has been exaggerated.
 
BBM

I think that's the point, C. Michael Vick killed animals. With Ray Lewis, it was a question of did he or didn't he kill a human being. Ray Lewis' career eclipsed what he was accused of.

OP has ADMITTED he shot and killed RS. The question is why, not did he or didn't he. The only excuse possible for what OP did is what he's trying to push in his affidavit.. that it was a horrible mistake. But horrible mistakes where you kill a human being in a blood bath don't tend to be forgiven over time, IMO. I believe OP is FOREVER tarnished. He can't be redeemed enough to have people wanting to buy any type of goods with his name on them. I can't see any crowd at an international track race embracing him. I think the best he can hope for is to sell his story to someone.

He wants so badly to get his life back to normal... hence going out on the town to gauge reaction. I can't believe no pictures of this night out have surfaced yet! I have a hard time putting a lot of faith in "he said/she said" stories in the media. There are reports that he was out, doing shots, slapping behinds and yukking it up, but I want to see if that was really his demeanor. It's very possible that the story has been exaggerated.

BBM

Why is this so hard to believe where opinion in his own country is split 50/50 (according to Carol I think). What makes you think that if no evidence comes out that proves that it wasn't an accident that a good number of people (even a majority) won't dismiss the whole event as a accident?
 
BBM

Why is this so hard to believe where opinion in his own country is split 50/50 (according to Carol I think). What makes you think that if no evidence comes out that proves that it wasn't an accident that a good number of people (even a majority) won't dismiss the whole event as a accident?

I did not mean to strike a nerve. We all need to tone down the aggressiveness. Please do not address me with "what makes you think....". Thank you.

Even if opinion is split 50/50 there (which I'm not sure about, just going off what you say), he still shot a person to death. It's not an obvious accident, as you say that it might be an accident. There are many, many holes in his affidavit. Who is OK with that?
 
I did not mean to strike a nerve. We all need to tone down the aggressiveness. Please do not address me with "what makes you think....". Thank you.

Even if opinion is split 50/50 there (which I'm not sure about, just going off what you say), he still shot a person to death. It's not an obvious accident, as you say that it might be an accident. There are many, many holes in his affidavit. Who is OK with that?
BBM - I think many more people are not ok with it than are ok with it. I'm not ok with it. If a child had come up with as many holes in a story as OP did, he/she would have been sent to bed with no pudding!! But because an adult told such a story, we're supposed to hold it in higher esteem. Well, I certainly don't, and while I try and believe in 'innocent until guilty' - on occasions such as these, when the suspect's family take great pains to project an image that doesn't exist (he doesn't drink and he's in deep mourning every day) and when the suspect himself tries to get virtually every bail restriction lifted and doesn't see 'how' he could be charged with premediated murder (what sort of dismissive attitude is that??) - well, that's when I hear alarm bells ringing.

Also, 'cooped' up at his Uncle's house?? How sad to be free to do virtually what he likes at his Uncle's magnificent home complete with swimming pool etc while Reeva is dead directly because of him and his actions. I'm sure other people waiting trial would like to be 'cooped' up at Uncle's house! OP doesn't (to me) come across as giving much of a damn about killing Reeva. He seems more concerned with getting on with his life and trying to pretend it didn't happen. Not really the actions of someone 'deep in mourning' having recently lost 'the love of his life'.
 
BBM

Why is this so hard to believe where opinion in his own country is split 50/50 (according to Carol I think). What makes you think that if no evidence comes out that proves that it wasn't an accident that a good number of people (even a majority) won't dismiss the whole event as a accident?

Actually, as time has gone on, his popularity has waned on a grand scale. I don't think he will ever be able to recover from this nor enjoy his previous popularity regardless of the outcome of his trial.

I'm going to address a few things now and give a recap on the Botha article. I'm sorry if this is going to take time as I keep losing my connection. So freking annoying but going to try my best :)
 
BBM - I think many more people are not ok with it than are ok with it. I'm not ok with it. If a child had come up with as many holes in a story as OP did, he/she would have been sent to bed with no pudding!!

snipped

:floorlaugh:

Very good way of putting it! Homor aside, though, I agree with your entire post. I gave OP the benefit of the doubt and thought he would be devastated over what he'd done. I even entertained the notion that the guilt might overcome him and he would confess to the murder. I give people too much credit.

But what we've seen happen is exactly what you've laid out: a man who killed a woman, asking for more freedom, and looking for his life to get back to the way it used to be. And so far, it appears that the justice system is on his side. We shouldn't be surprised. There's not enough advocacy for victims. My heart breaks for RS's family, watching all of this unfold, and knowing they will never see or hear from their daughter again because of one man's actions.

I mean really, who can be OK with it? "Oops, I didn't know it was RS behind the door. It's been two months, I think I'll go out with my friends now." :snooty:
 
Another article in the same YOU mag regarding his "training" and the going out last weekend. Sorry only mentioned now but I only saw it this morning when I eventually paged through the entire mag.

Im not going to debate the article, just going to mention what's in it and will highlight my opinion in black.

Training: According to witnesses on the field, Oscar was not training but simply jogging. He looked thin and unshaven. His agent and coach both confirm that OP has not shown interest in returning to training although uncle Arnold states that they are keen for him to start again so he can "stabilize his mind" . However, OP has made it clear he is not ready and does not have the inclination.
Not unbelievable, he is an athlete and cannot exactly go jogging in the streets anymore.

The rest of that portion of the article just discusses how long he can be out of training, the effect of trauma on an athlete and a few quotes from various psychologists etc.
 
His outing last weekend:
He was having dinner with 2 women, one of them his ex girlfriend Jenna Edkins,a witness told YOU, " he has a beard and his hair is dark. Everybody was looking at him and as he walked out, people started calling out to him and elbowing him. He was walking down the stairs and fell, someone grabbed him in time" AP confirmed OP was having dinner, was not behaving recklessly nor drunk.


I also read somewhere but for the life of me can't find the link that when OP entered the restaurant, the mood became sombre and didn't quite recover until OP left. I also can't believe no snaps have emerged of OP drinking, drunk, downing shooters or flirting with women. I will believe that when I see it. The man is not an idiot surely.
 
Botha: I'm just going to bullet through it.

The interview is actually given by his wife as he was at the same time giving an "exclusive" interview to US Vanity Fair. :p

He resigned from the police force after 24 years service and is now working for New Century Developments. She talks about the huge amount of criticism he has come under. Some are saying he was paid R1million to make the mistakes on the stand and that the Pistorius family helped him find his new job as AP is a huge player in the property development industry.

Many wondered why he chose to testify in English but he believed he could express himself well enough in English for a bail application but it turned out he couldn't and said he would never give evidence in English again.

There is no friendship between Hilton and OP. they had only met once before Reevas death in the cells at the police station when OP was arrested in 2009 for the assault charge. Hilton took him out the cells because he felt that Oscar had been locked up unfairly and he could see the girl only had a scratch on her knee, not even a bruise. Hilton is always fair to the best of his ability. After that 2009 incident, he saw OP again for the second time on 14th Feb.

Hilton removed the door from the house for safe keeping because of the amounts of money being offered for pictures of it. Carl found Hilton walking about the house 3 days after the murder when he arrived to give Hilton copies of the plans of the house and asked him why he was corrupting the scene because he was not wearing protective gear. He hadn't worn protective gear from the start because he didn't think it was necessary. Its essential when looking for DNA but OP acknowledged firing the shots and Reeva died at the scene.

Hilton was not given the opportunity to finish his sentence when asked about the accuracy of OP statement, he wanted to say " it's possible but highly unlikely"

About getting the cell records etc, he is only a warrant officer and would never get cell records etc in 3 days, blames the circumstances under which he works. He estimated and didn't measure distances for the ear witnesses. The bail application was heard too soon after the shooting and there was not enough time. Although police worked from early morning valentines day until late every night, much of the evidence was hearsay and he didn't want to be too specific with information.

Hilton couldn't understand why the attempted murder case was reopened against him, the case had already been withdrawn, his bail repaid and his passport returned. The night after his first appearance on the stand, someone phoned him out the blue to say it was being re investigated again. *she gives a brief description about the incident, pretty much what's been reported in media*. Also says " I don't think there are any cops who have not had an attempted murder charge against them, if they haven't, they are not doing their jobs"

He met his current employer a year ago and was offered the job then but declined as he was still happy in the police force. He was called again after OP bail and accepted the job as he felt abandoned by his police bosses. Even though he felt dejected, he still found it hard to resign.

The balance of the article is about effect on the family of all the allegations etc. I've probably missed some out not knowing if its really relevant as its a long article but this is the gist of it.

A last paragraph and comment by Kenny Oldwage states that Hilton was given time to deliver his evidence and was not constantly interrupted. " He was there to give his version and I think he was capable of giving it. The interpretation was clear. What was put to him was what was responded to and what he believed to be probably possible. There's no space for another interpretation. If there was, why didn't he rectify it then and there? "

Done I think :D sorry for spelling or anything else and hope there is something useful to discuss. :p
 
Botha: I'm just going to bullet through it.

:p

snipped for space

Thank you Carol, for your breakdown of the article. So he's blaming his strange testimony on the fact that he didn't give it in Afrikaans? What do you think about that?

I don't know about the protective shoe covering excuse. He didn't think he needed it? Every crime scene has integrity that needs to be maintained. As a long-time police official, he knows better. I'm not buying it.
 
His outing last weekend:
He was having dinner with 2 women, one of them his ex girlfriend Jenna Edkins,a witness told YOU, " he has a beard and his hair is dark. Everybody was looking at him and as he walked out, people started calling out to him and elbowing him. He was walking down the stairs and fell, someone grabbed him in time" AP confirmed OP was having dinner, was not behaving recklessly nor drunk.


I also read somewhere but for the life of me can't find the link that when OP entered the restaurant, the mood became sombre and didn't quite recover until OP left. I also can't believe no snaps have emerged of OP drinking, drunk, downing shooters or flirting with women. I will believe that when I see it. The man is not an idiot surely.

Is this the same night he supposedly went out with Craig Lipschitz? What a vastly different interpretation of the events beween that article and this one:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/04/14/oscar-pistorius-parties-flirts-shops
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
107
Guests online
1,061
Total visitors
1,168

Forum statistics

Threads
626,959
Messages
18,535,964
Members
241,158
Latest member
Detectiveme
Back
Top