General Discussion Thread #4

[soozieqtips]

Not long ago, didn't the police say that it was irrelevant whether OP had his prosthetic legs on or not at the time of the shooting? I'm not altogether sure what difference it makes as far as premeditation goes. If he already knew she was in the bathroom and had locked herself in there, then he didn't need to rush to put on his legs. She wasn't going anywhere.

 

[Pisto_lius]

I agree - it's entirely possible that the blood spatter on the sofa occurred when OP was carrying Reeva downstairs - IF Reeva's head was dangling over the railing.

I watched the video again, and the blood drops are scattered along the entire length of the arm of the sofa. The arm of the sofa is perpendicular to that particular flight of the stairway.

It seems like an odd blood spatter pattern, since OP would have been carrying Reeva behind & parallel to the sofa. IF Reeva's head was dangling over the railing, I would have expected the blood spatter to be along the back of the sofa, and perhaps along the back of the arm of the sofa, if the blood was dripping passively as he carried her downstairs.

Passive blood spatter follows gravity. The fact that blood was found along the length of the arm of the sofa (which is perpendicular to the stairs) may suggest something other than passive blood spatter.

But what do I know - I'm not a blood spatter expert. I'm just going off what seems logical in my mind with what little I know about the crime scene.

I watched the video again, too and have compared the location of the sofa in the video with the location of the sofa in the photo and there is a crucial difference: in the video I can't see a sofa under the railing of the stairs (like on the photo), but a small sideboard. And I also can't see a sofa in front of this sideboard, because the back of the sofa must be higher than the sideboard?

On the other hand they say in the video:

The creme sofa UNDER the stairs.....

But is it really possible, that OP was carrying Reeva downstairs with a head that was dangling over the railing? Not even 1 meter before or further her head would hit against the wall...

So in the end of the day I must say, I'm not sure how the blood spatters come onto to sofa because I don't know where the sofa exactly is located - sorry :blushing:

 

[Pisto_lius]

Not long ago, didn't the police say that it was irrelevant whether OP had his prosthetic legs on or not at the time of the shooting? I'm not altogether sure what difference it makes as far as premeditation goes. If he already knew she was in the bathroom and had locked herself in there, then he didn't need to rush to put on his legs. She wasn't going anywhere.

I agree - for premeditation it was irrelevant whether OP had his prosthetic legs on or not.

But OP said, he didn't know it was Reeva in the toilet when he shot through the door and he put on his prosthetic legs after the shooting, after he returnd to the bedroom and, and, and.... when it "dawned" on him that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet.

 

[shane13]

This report, as well as the image of the gift in the video you posted upthread (TY for that video, BTW), shows the gift clearly intact.

At the very least, it disproves the rumor we read about many weeks ago regarding the gift being found smashed.

No, there never was a report that the gift/photo was smashed (to my recollection).

There was an (unconfirmed) report in The Daily Star in the UK that trophies were askew and one was smashed.

 

[shane13]

Just some quick observations...Havent been able to watch the video because Im at work but what strikes me the most is where the bullet holes are in the door. They are well below the handle..as opposed to Botha stating that they were high up in the door. Also, Im familiar with those locks, I can easily imagine the key coming out of the door after being bashed in by the bat. Also, the amount of blood on the seat seems, to me anyway, to indicate she may have been sitting on the loo at some point while being shot??

Carol:

It is possible that she may have been in 2 positions when hit. If the earwitnesses are accurate in the 17 minute gap between the sets of shots . (First set being only 1 shot, 2nd set being 3 shots.)

Botha in an interview said she was "crouched down" shielding her head with her hands. Maybe she was first seated when hit with the first shot? Then went to that position to try to save her life?

The color of the blood on the seat is different than on the floor. But maybe lighting, density and other factors can explain that.

I did note that there was less blood in certain places than I was expecting. The loo, the stairs. But they do not show the top of the stairs in the new photos.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Pictures of the scene where Reeva Steenkamp was shot have emerged in public before even Oscar Pistorius’ defence team was able to see them.

I guess, they saw the whole crime scene only minutes after the shooting, because one of his lawyers was in the house the same time as Botha. And Perumal was at scene, too, because he was the one who found the bullet into the toilet bowl.

Are they kidding us?

His attorney Brian Webber said he had written to the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) demanding an explanation for the leak of the photos.

“It’s very distressing that these pictures are now in the public domain… We have requested from the police on at least five occasions to see the pictures – we have not had sight of them,” he said.

http://www.thesouthafrican.com/news...me-scene-leaked-ahead-of-his-murder-trial.htm

It seems the defense is mad because the now leaked photos show something other than what they told the public and wanted to make them (us) to believe . And I guess that's the reason for the renewed discretisation of the investigators.

From another report:

A spokesman for the National Prosecuting Authority told The Daily Telegraph that the photographs would not affect the state’s case against the runner.

“No,” she said. “NPA will deal with such issues in court.”

A police spokesman was quoted in The Times as saying that the photogarphs were a “deliberate tactic” that investigators did not want to be distracted by.

Anneliese Burgess, a spokesman for a PR agency that works with the Pistorius family, said the photos came as a shock and that the family had not yet discussed how they might respond.

Defence lawyer Kenny Oldwage told The Daily Telegraph that the legal team was discussing the matter, and that he had yet to see the photos.

“Obviously we need to consider our position before we comment,” he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...d-photos-show-crime-scene-for-first-time.html

 

[Pisto_lius]

Blood money for Oscar pics?

Johannesburg - Whichever police officer leaked the video footage of Oscar Pistorius’s blood-spattered bathroom, made a fortune.

On Friday morning, Hilton Botha, the original lead investigator on the case, said the footage – broadcast by Sky News – was shot before investigators removed the bathroom door two days after the crime.

Pistorius shot and killed his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in the early hours of Valentine’s Day earlier this year.

The police have denied leaking the footage to journalists.

Botha, who was publicly humiliated for his conduct on the case and then quit the police force, said a lot of police officers were on the scene at the time. It would have been easy for them, he said, to take footage with their cellphones.

On Friday morning, Pistorius’s defence had written to the National Prosecuting Authority demanding to know how the footage was leaked.

Lawyer Barry Webber said the report was distressing, considering they had asked for the crime scene photos on five occasions and not received them.

“It would be very interesting to see where this came from,” said Webber. “This is a terrible invasion of privacy, seeing that blood. A woman died here.”

National police spokesman Brigadier Phuti Setati denied Sky News had received photographs and footage from the police.

“I don’t know where they got the footage from, but it is aimed at confusing people. This is a criminal case and the police’s main aim is to secure a conviction,” Setati said.

He said Sky News’s report that one of Pistorius’s watches had been stolen from the scene was a lie.

“This is just speculation,” he said. “Nobody has the evidence, nobody knows what we are preparing. That will all be revealed in court.”

Setati said the crime scene leaks to the media were fair neither to Steenkamp nor Pistorius.

“These are human beings and a woman was killed – we remember that as a responsible police force.”

Read more: http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/blood-money-for-oscar-pics-1.1525295#.UamQk9K-2So

 

[redheadedgal]

haven't been in here in weeks... thanks everyone for 1) the recent info and links re: the crime scene photos and 2) as always, your intelligent and relevant comments and questions about what you see/think.

 

[whiterum]

Excellent points above Pisto lius !


It is indeed suspect timing that these oddly angled pictures of the crime scene have been accessed by the press just before OP is due to appear in court. As for Alex Crawford why is she giving her opinion as to what in her view backs up OP's claims, is she a ballistics expert? Also her obvious implication on the video focusing on one part shoeprint that it was Botha's, also that police stole a missing watch.

All this talk about stumps , prosthetics , takes way from the fact that he shot through that door whether he was on stumps or standing on the sink. Did she mention the points in the video where Reeva and OPs phones lay on the mat, no don't hear any mention of those.

Does his prosthetic legs have shoes on them, where are his bloody shoe prints or footprints since he supposedly dragged her from the toilet out onto the bathroom floor.

Imo, it's a whole bunch of manipulative tripe to divert attention away from the actual crime committed, the horrible shooting to death of Reeva.

Some underhand 'powers that be ' are obviously at play here again IMO.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Excellent points above Pisto lius !

It is indeed suspect timing that these oddly angled pictures of the crime scene have been accessed by the press just before OP is due to appear in court. As for Alex Crawford why is she giving her opinion as to what in her view backs up OP's claims, is she a ballistics expert? Also her obvious implication on the video focusing on one part shoeprint that it was Botha's, also that police stole a missing watch.

All this talk about stumps , prosthetics , takes way from the fact that he shot through that door whether he was on stumps or standing on the sink. Did she mention the points in the video where Reeva and OPs phones lay on the mat, no don't hear any mention of those.

Does his prosthetic legs have shoes on them, where are his bloody shoe prints or footprints since he supposedly dragged her from the toilet out onto the bathroom floor.

Imo, it's a whole bunch of manipulative tripe to divert attention away from the actual crime committed, the horrible shooting to death of Reeva.

Some underhand 'powers that be ' are obviously at play here again IMO.

TXL . But you added 2 further good points:

- Did she mention the points in the video where Reeva and OPs phones lay on the mat, no don't hear any mention of those. Neither do I

- Does his prosthetic legs have shoes on them, where are his bloody shoe prints or footprints since he supposedly dragged her from the toilet out onto the bathroom floor. Yes, his prosthetic legs have shoes on them. But I think, police didn't take his shoeprints and unfortunately Botha confirmed HE contaminated the crime scene.



- All this talk about stumps , prosthetics , takes way from the fact that he shot through that door whether he was on stumps or standing on the sink. Agree

- Imo, it's a whole bunch of manipulative tripe to divert attention away from the actual crime committed, the horrible shooting to death of Reeva. Agree

 

[Patticake]

Reeva's parents have moved out of their home and are described as "indigent". They have signed a media deal and are mulling legal action against Oscar.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-parents-in-dire-straits-1.1525572#.UanMZmgTvR0

Reeva’s parents in dire straits

But it appears that the Steenkamp parents have struck two deals, one locally and one internationally with the UK’s Channel Five, which will on Monday air a one-hour documentary titled: Why Did Oscar Pistorius Kill Our Daughter?

The documentary was created by Mentorn Media, the same production company behind the quick turn-around documentary aired on BBC 3 in March, and is said to be the “only in-depth television interview” given by Reeva’s parents.

The Steenkamps said through their lawyers: “It is difficult for an ordinary couple like ourselves to handle such a multitude of media requests. We have therefore taken the decision, on legal advice, to reach an agreement with one organisation, Passion Distribution of the UK, to handle all of our TV arrangements until the end of the trial of Mr Pistorius.”

The documentary formed part of the deal, and they took part “in order to pay tribute to our daughter”.

A media release issued by Channel Five last month said the documentary would touch on issues such as how the death of their daughter destroyed the Steenkamps’ lives, what Reeva had told them about her arguments with Pistorius, and why they feared for her safety. They would also show personal pictures and letters.

 

[kittychi]

Is it possible, you're confusing that with a report of Cecil Myers?

Pisto and Sorrell...

I also remember the report of the smashed gift, separately from the Cecil Myers statement. Will search for the link when I get a chance.

 

[Estelle]

According to South African news outlet News24 Brigadier Phuti Setati, a spokesperson for the South African police service said they would not comment on the pictures. However, he did say: “We don't want to be distracted by these deliberate tactics. All that we want to do is secure conviction, so we are working throughout and investigating professionally.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...eeva-steenkamp-on-valentines-day-8639962.html

 

[Estelle]

CNN spoke with Oscar's uncle Arnold Pistorius who said his nephew has grown a beard because he doesn't want to be recognised and still has photos up of Steenkamp.

"He's got photos in his room, photos all over the place. He's housebound, you know. He doesn't go out in public places," he said. "What can you say if the person you love the most dies, and you were the instrument? How would you feel? It's unthinkable."

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/p...mp/story-fndir2ev-1226654874766#ixzz2UyP7NGUM

Do you believe this?

Even with a beard, OP will be recognised!

Photos of Reeva all over the place? Or of himself?

 

[shane13]

Reeva's parents have moved out of their home and are described as "indigent". They have signed a media deal and are mulling legal action against Oscar.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-parents-in-dire-straits-1.1525572#.UanMZmgTvR0

Reeva’s parents in dire straits

Thanks for posting this Patti.

Two important things to note.
The June 4 court appearance is said to likely be only 10 minutes.
And the airing of the Channel 5 doc including much from the Steenkamps airs very soon--on Monday, according to this article.

 

[Estelle]

http://drum.co.za/2013/04/26/hes-heartbroken/

AT EIGHT minutes past three on the morning of Valentine’s Day Christo Menelaou woke with a start. He’d heard what sounded like three thunderclaps.

At his home in the Silver Woods Estate east of Pretoria he lay in bed waiting for the rain to start.

Almost an hour later he went to the bathroom.

When he opened the window and looked outside he couldn’t believe his eyes. His window looks out onto an empty plot and Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius’ house.

The two men are close friends.

“His house used to be in pitch darkness at night, except for one light that was always on,” Christo (34) says. But that night all the lights were on and there were blue and red lights flashing outside the house.

Brotherly love or more?

http://inagist.com/all/328202854500290560/?utm_source=inagist&utm_medium=rss

The neighbour and he have an intimacy that normal men friends wouldn't ordinarily have. The descriptions of their first meeting sound more like love at first sight. The text messages and letters read like those from a very intimate relationship.

I have only just come across these links. At 3.08 am, OP's close friend and neighbour, Christo Menelaou was awoken by three thunderclaps which he thought was thunder but which we know as three gunshots. I have never known the exact time of the gunshots until now.

This reminds me of the ladder that he lent OP. IMO it seems such a coincidence that that ladder was left there outside the bathroom. My suspicious mind cannot help thinking whether OP phoned Christo that morning to ask him to put it there. I hope they investigate that.

Also, I cannot help thinking that Christo would not have gone over there when he saw the blue and white lights flashing or was he already there?

Another one to add to the list perhaps????

 

[Pisto_lius]

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/p...mp/story-fndir2ev-1226654874766#ixzz2UyP7NGUM

Do you believe this?

Even with a beard, OP will be recognised!

Photos of Reeva all over the place? Or of himself?

Oscar has grown a beard because he doesn't want to be recognised at the airport, going on a looooong journey :floorlaugh:

He's got photos in his room, photos all over the place of HIMSELF. And he also have photos of Reeva, of course! But "unfortunately" these photos (her Valentine's gift for him) are still where he killed Reeva.

He doesn't go out in public places, because at his uncle's house he can drink alcohol undisturbed :angel:

The person "he love the most" is not so simply died - he KILLED HER :furious:

Poooor Oscar, he's a broken man.

R.I.P. Reeva, she's a dead woman . forever..... :tears:

 

[Estelle]

What do you think about the photos we have seen of OP and Reeva together? Do you think they look happy together?

The picture taken at the SA sports awards at the start of November 2012 is the only one I've ever seen of Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp together in which he looked happy.

In all the others, he looks as if he's forcing a smile or he isn't even trying and in the ones in which he is trying, his eyes give him away.

I read a comment from an observant local who said, "This had become increasingly obvious in the ones at events in the few weeks before 14th February from the Tasha party, the VASAs and a friend's engagement party."

"Added to which he did not even want to be photographed with Reeva on the red carpet at the VASAs (she ended up posing on the red carpet on her own)! But he was later photographed on the red carpet with other guests with his unmistakable big smile. You can't help but think something wasn't quite right there."

I guess that Reeva's parents might know more about this too which will be revealed on Channel 5.

 

[Pisto_lius]

http://drum.co.za/2013/04/26/hes-heartbroken/

http://inagist.com/all/328202854500290560/?utm_source=inagist&utm_medium=rss

I have only just come across these links. At 3.08 am, OP's close friend and neighbour, Christo Menelaou was awoken by three thunderclaps which he thought was thunder but which we know as three gunshots. I have never known the exact time of the gunshots until now.

This reminds me of the ladder that he lent OP. IMO it seems such a coincidence that that ladder was left there outside the bathroom. My suspicious mind cannot help thinking whether OP phoned Christo that morning to ask him to put it there. I hope they investigate that.

Also, I cannot help thinking that Christo would not have gone over there when he saw the blue and white lights flashing or was he already there?

Another one to add to the list perhaps????

At 3.08 am Christo heard three gunshots - as we were told there were still at least four gunshots (?) But it fits - at 3.19 am OP allegedly phoned Stander, so this three gunshots were the last.

And what a suspicious message . Christo also mentions the ladder

BIB - I think the same

 

[Pisto_lius]

What do you think about the photos we have seen of OP and Reeva together? Do you think they look happy together?

The picture taken at the SA sports awards at the start of November 2012 is the only one I've ever seen of Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp together in which he looked happy.

In all the others, he looks as if he's forcing a smile or he isn't even trying and in the ones in which he is trying, his eyes give him away.

I read a comment from an observant local who said, "This had become increasingly obvious in the ones at events in the few weeks before 14th February from the Tasha party, the VASAs and a friend's engagement party."

"Added to which he did not even want to be photographed with Reeva on the red carpet at the VASAs (she ended up posing on the red carpet on her own)! But he was later photographed on the red carpet with other guests with his unmistakable big smile. You can't help but think something wasn't quite right there."

I guess that Reeva's parents might know more about this too which will be revealed on Channel 5.

I believe they weren't a love couple, but only had a PR relationship. Reeva's days as a model were numbered, but she loved publicity and the red carpet and OP could offer this for her. He, on the other hand, adorns himself with charming blonde women and Reeva was significantly more mature than his further girlfriends.

And I also believe Reeva knew about the dark side of OP. Maybe not from the beginning but more and more. Her problem was that she was very involved in violence against women so I assume, she was frightened to become implausible if issues with OP would be publicized. For that reason - IMO - she didn't like to talk about details of her relationship with OP.

As I remember one of her best girlfriends asked her few days before she died, whether everything is OK with her and OP but Reeva wouldn't answer this question and said she would talk later with her about this.

All of this only IMO