General Discussion Thread #4

[Pisto_lius]

Typical Pistorius

Pistorius mulls legal action

Carl Pistorius may sue the State for wrongful prosecution, following his acquittal on charges of culpable homicide and negligent driving.

Eyewitness News quoted Pistorius as saying: “I am grateful that this chapter is closed and I think we will have a serious look at wrongful prosecution and see if there’s something that is worth suing over.”

Pistorius was acquitted by the Vanderbijlpark Magistrate’s Court of all charges relating to the 2008 death of motorcyclist Marietjie Barnard. Barnard died in hospital after crashing into the back of Pistorius’s bakkie. During the court case it emerged that Barnard, who was speeding at the time of the accident, may have consumed alcohol prior to the crash. Blood tests conducted by the police at the time found that Pistorius was not driving under the influence of alcohol.

EWN reported that the charges against Pistorius were initially withdrawn, but were reinstated after the family said it believed that the death was not accidental.

http://news.iafrica.com/content_feeds/msn/860580.html

 

[whiterum]

This report, as well as the image of the gift in the video you posted upthread (TY for that video, BTW), shows the gift clearly intact.

At the very least, it disproves the rumor we read about many weeks ago regarding the gift being found smashed.

The recent comment below from Botha seems also to suggest that there were no broken trophies on the floor either as was claimed in the Daily Star article.

“It was a big house and very neat and tidy,” said Botha, “and you could see the money talking, with all the ornaments and portraits and paintings. There were shelves stacked with trophies. There was also one of those big box frames, with a picture of Mike Tyson, along with a signed boxing glove.”

 

[soozieqtips]

Oscar Pistorius trial:

Detective Hilton Botha reveals star could go free because of shocking pictures of the scene. Officer says leaked photos of the bloodied bathroom and bullet-riddled door could play into the hands of the sprinter’s *defence team.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-detective-hilton-1926756

--------------------------------
Why does he think OP could go free based solely on the publication of the (extremely distasteful) pictures?
The article doesn't explain why.

 

[shane13]

Has there already been interference in this case?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-detective-hilton-1926756


“Botha claimed that he knew of two people who had changed their minds about talking to police.

“At that stage I had witnesses who I wanted to keep on my side,” Botha said. “There were witnesses I’d heard of that I wanted to get statements from but then they changed their minds.

“It sounds to me like someone spoke to them and they don’t want to get involved.”

Do they not have subpoenas there? Or have these 2 people changed their memmories?

 

[shane13]

The recent comment below from Botha seems also to suggest that there were no broken trophies on the floor either as was claimed in the Daily Star article.

“It was a big house and very neat and tidy,” said Botha, “and you could see the money talking, with all the ornaments and portraits and paintings. There were shelves stacked with trophies. There was also one of those big box frames, with a picture of Mike Tyson, along with a signed boxing glove.”

Yes, I thought of that too. That is from the Vanity Fair article.

I also thought of one possible resolution of this "conflict."

Some cops who The Daily Star claims told them about the smashed trophy, could have seen the scene after the cops got through rummaging the house for evidence.

Obviously cops should not be damaging anything, but it's been known to happen.

And, of course, it could still be fabrication.

One thing to note from the new MIRROR piece, is its title:

Oscar Pistorius trial: Detective Hilton Botha reveals star could go free because of shocking pictures of the scene

They are already planting the meme to the masses that Oscar will go free, because of the release of the new pictures--which certainly does NOT have to be the case, as it does not interfere with what the autopsy, and forensics reveal, etc.

It makes one ponder just who might really be behind the release of said photos?

 

[Elainera]

Oscar Pistorius trial:

Detective Hilton Botha reveals star could go free because of shocking pictures of the scene. Officer says leaked photos of the bloodied bathroom and bullet-riddled door could play into the hands of the sprinter’s *defence team.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-detective-hilton-1926756

--------------------------------
Why does he think OP could go free based solely on the publication of the (extremely distasteful) pictures?
The article doesn't explain why.

The explanation is this

"The photos show marks on the door which suggest the bullets went through below the handle – allegedly backing up Pistorius’s claim that he was on his limb stumps as he went to confront an intruder.

The prosecution claim he had put on his prosthetic legs, indicating it was a premeditated killing."

bbm - the photo strengthens the defence's argument.

 

[shane13]

Oscar gets support from unlikely source

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscar-gets-support-from-unlikely-source-20130601

Convicted drug dealer Glenn Agliotti has advice for Oscar.
G.A. knew the SAPS Commissioner, and was acquitted of murdering mining magnate Brett Kebble. He had the same prosecutor...

Brett Kebble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[shane13]

Some possible good news from Reuters-S.A.

"South Africa does not have trial by jury so pre-trial media coverage is seldom deemed to be prejudicial."

So despite OP's attorneys making a big thing of the photo leak, it should not matter...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/01/us-safrica-pistorius-idUSBRE95002R20130601

 

[whiterum]

In the second of two Channel 5 documentaries to be aired tomorrow, a day before Pistorius appears in the dock for a pre-trial hearing on Tuesday, two of South Africa's top barristers use experts and a full-size reconstruction of Pistorius's bathroom and bedroom to dissect the evidence on which his fate hangs, dismissing claims that neighbours heard the couple rowing.

The prosecution must provide a motive to have him convicted of premeditated murder, and part of that case relies on two witness statements saying the couple were arguing. But, in Pistorius Trial: The Key Questions, on Monday at 10pm, those statements from neighbours living 300 metres from the athlete's home, are called into question. Technology used to measure the noise impact of new train lines suggests that voices arguing could not be heard from 300 metres away, but only from a distance of about 50 metres.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ter-the-shouts-the-whispers-grow-8640799.html

 

[shane13]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ter-the-shouts-the-whispers-grow-8640799.html

To me this sounds like more BS from the nearly monolithic MSM.
I posted months ago,that the way to prove what could be heard is only by having actors arguing, screaming, and finally a gun being fired from Oscar's hall and bathroom, and emplacing people and microphones at where the earwitnesses were.

Theoretical train simulations or simulations anywhere other than the actual crime scene are not valid when specific re-enactments can be undertaken.

 

[shane13]

What's the mood there in SA now, Carol?

 

[Estelle]

IIRC there was one witness reported in the MSM who only lived 50 metres away and heard the arguing. Plus the arguing was reported earlier.

Premeditation can be proven by the fact that OP did not stop at one shot, he shot at least three more! This is apparently, a sign of premeditation. The premeditation does not have have been hours before but can be minutes before.

Also, that ladder needs to be looked at in case it was either planted there before the shots or Christo was asked to put it there before police arrived.

 

[Carol70]

OK...I'm looking at the holes as marked in the doors and I see the exact opposite. It appears to me that the lock on the door is actually quite high, if I am not mistaken. Given that fact and the fact that the shots would have come from a few feet away from the door, and if the bullet trajectory itself is shown as a downward angle, then it would appear as though his legs were on at the time.

Question-were his legs on when the police arrived? Did he say he grabbed his legs and put them on to carry her down the stairs? Sorry...I can't remember.

Most locks are a std height in doors, I've just quickly measured all the doors in my house, 1.2m from floor to handle, this included bathroom doors, my kitchen door and outside garage door, all the same. If anything, should OP have customized the door, he would have made the handle lower, IMO, taking into account he would be shorter without his legs on.

We purchased a fixer upper house and all the doors need to be replaced in the house so we have spent considerable time looking at doors, we have seen lots where the bottom half panel is smaller than the top half. I'm going to guess an estimate that those bullet holes are sitting at less than 1m from the floor although admittedly, it's a hard guess because of the angle of the pics.

 

[Estelle]

I believe they weren't a love couple, but only had a PR relationship. Reeva's days as a model were numbered, but she loved publicity and the red carpet and OP could offer this for her. He, on the other hand, adorns himself with charming blonde women and Reeva was significantly more mature than his further girlfriends.

And I also believe Reeva knew about the dark side of OP. Maybe not from the beginning but more and more. Her problem was that she was very involved in violence against women so I assume, she was frightened to become implausible if issues with OP would be publicized. For that reason - IMO - she didn't like to talk about details of her relationship with OP.

As I remember one of her best girlfriends asked her few days before she died, whether everything is OK with her and OP but Reeva wouldn't answer this question and said she would talk later with her about this.

All of this only IMO

Reeva told her cousin in Cape Town that she would discuss her relationship at another time "We will talk" were her words and all she felt she could say because Oscar was returning to the table to join them. her cousin had sensed that something was not right, that Reeva wasn't happy.

Ask any beautiful woman who has been with an aggressively jealous boyfriend what gives in this instance and she will tell you it is a clear sign of being with a sociopath.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-cuddle-1900126

 

[Carol70]

What's the mood there in SA now, Carol?

People are still not really talking about it anymore to be honest. And more than ever, people think he is guilty as charged.

I was dismayed to see the new YOU mag this week. Reevas parents invited the mag to watch the scattering of her ashes. Handful of people and a journalist. I found it abit uncouth. I bought it but haven't read the article yet. To me, that should have been private.

 

[shane13]

Most locks are a std height in doors, I've just quickly measured all the doors in my house, 1.2m from floor to handle, this included bathroom doors, my kitchen door and outside garage door, all the same. If anything, should OP have customized the door, he would have made the handle lower, IMO, taking into account he would be shorter without his legs on.

We purchased a fixer upper house and all the doors need to be replaced in the house so we have spent considerable time looking at doors, we have seen lots where the bottom half panel is smaller than the top half. I'm going to guess an estimate that those bullet holes are sitting at less than 1m from the floor although admittedly, it's a hard guess because of the angle of the pics.

A few things Carol.
First OP could afford a very non-standard house. I believe that one was said to be worth millions.

Then we do not see the other 2 holes. They were either in the bashed out panel or further on top.

And note that the photo is either cropped or otherwise does not show the top of the door.

 

[Estelle]

Most locks are a std height in doors, I've just quickly measured all the doors in my house, 1.2m from floor to handle, this included bathroom doors, my kitchen door and outside garage door, all the same. If anything, should OP have customized the door, he would have made the handle lower, IMO, taking into account he would be shorter without his legs on.

We purchased a fixer upper house and all the doors need to be replaced in the house so we have spent considerable time looking at doors, we have seen lots where the bottom half panel is smaller than the top half. I'm going to guess an estimate that those bullet holes are sitting at less than 1m from the floor although admittedly, it's a hard guess because of the angle of the pics.

Doesn't the point about the bullets relate mainly to the trajectory of the bullets? If the bullets hit the door low, then OP must have known that RS was cowering low on our right hand side beside the toilet looking at it and where most of the blood was and that he knew she was not standing or on our left hand side. So how did he know that? IMO he must have heard her voice or movements.

 

[Carol70]

Good on you, Dutchess. I posted the same RE the door handle. Interesting some people celebrating, when it appears that the handle is high on the door, and we don't have the other 2 holes. But I noted that I am not sure of the scale of the photo. If the horizontal log is like half way up, then it appears that the handle is way up and the 2 holes are on the top half. Again we don't know where the other 2 holes are.

Another thing I note is that there appears not to be much blood shown on the stairs which seems to contradict some paramedics and others witness accounts. But maybe there was massve blood loss at the top, and we see mostly the bottom part of the stairs?

And yes, his prosthetic legs were on when he carried her down, and when the cops etc arrived.

Shane, if he was moving quickly down the stairs, then I would imagine there wouldn't be massive amounts of blood on the actual stairs but rather at the bottom where he laid her down??

 

[shane13]

Shane, if he was moving quickly down the stairs, then I would imagine there wouldn't be massive amounts of blood on the actual stairs but rather at the bottom where he laid her down??

Carol:
I think I will PM you the resolution of this.

 

[Carol70]

A few things Carol.
First OP could afford a very non-standard house. I believe that one was said to be worth millions.

Then we do not see the other 2 holes. They were either in the bashed out panel or further on top.

And note that the photo is either cropped or otherwise does not show the top of the door.

Yep, I agree with you. If OP built the house from the ground up, he surely would have taken his disability into consideration. (I don't believe he did build the house thou because he was doing renovations to it).

I imagine that no matter the value of the house, surely there are std building guidelines that should be followed? We know we can walk into Builders (it's a hardware store) and buy any door we need for our house and know if will fit with the lock that's currently in place kwim? But you are right, there are 2 bullets holes not in the pic that could be anywhere. Even though we have the pics now, it's still pretty much a guessing game.