General Discussion Thread #4

[Estelle]

The parents are reportedly planning to lodge a civil suit claiming three million rand (£188,065) in damages.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ting-civil-damages-with-Steenkamp-family.html

Three million rand sounds so much more than £188,065.

I would have been asking for a lot more and after he had been found guilty. But if the trial takes four years to end, OP could be broke by then, found not guilty and they could be offered much less.

 

[Interested Bystander]

The reporter is CNN's SA reporter. Her name is Robyn Curnow. The reasons for the 4 year time frame it seems is to do with the huge number of witnesses listed by the prosecution and with the probability that there will be a large number of potential witnesses from the Defense, although it is not known how many will be called from either side. She thinks the arguments could go on for years. HTH

 

[whiterum]

the staging

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...84466/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html

This link posted by IB above is excellent for refreshing the mind. This made me think just how disingenuous CP's tweet on Reeva's birthday was,especially in light of this

08.34 Mr Botha says Pistorius and his family tried to get at his offshore accounts shortly after the crime. His brother Carl arrived with a lawyer and a locksmith to open a safe in the kitchen that had a memory stick with the account numbers

.
CP tweets : "Remembered like yesterday. My life was impacted by u @reevasteenkamp & the lady u were! Always close to our hearts."

Oh what hypocrisy, what apparently were his and others priorities, as Reeva's not yet cold, bloodied body was lying right before their eyes .

 

[Estelle]

Oscar Pistorius’s six-gun arsenal

Oscar Pistorius was licensed to have one gun when he shot dead his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp but had applied for licences for five more. Here are the guns he wished to own.

http://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/oscar-pistoriuss-six-gun-arsenal.htm#.UhNcRxfCcSE.twitter

 

[Interested Bystander]

It seems from my earlier link, repeated below,


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...84466/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html


that the person who heard gunshots reported 8 of them. The defense will have a field day with this. What I think he/she was hearing was in fact the four gun shots plus the associated 4 echos but even if this were to be the truth the Defense are very likely to be able to rubbish the testimony.

Also we learn that there "were no signs of assault on Reeva's body" which probably puts to bed the cricket bat assault theory.

Also Botha said all 4 shots were in the bathroom, none elsewhere. That appears to eliminate the cartridge supposedly found in the bedroom or cupboard area.

One witness heard a couple arguing - so two voices - not just Pistorius shouting from the balcony. I also wonder whether in fact it was Reeva shouting from the balcony before running to the bathroom to escape from danger. Pistorius states in his Affidavit that the bedroom door was locked . If it was locked, had P. purposely done this and taken the key? Her only escape then from him was to jump from the balcony OR attempt to hide somewhere.

 

[Tulessa]

OPINION: WILL REEVA EVER GET JUSTICE? - QUESTIONS

1. Did witnesses overhear shouting and screaming between 2:00am to 3:00am that night?

The houses according to the plan submitted to the court are separated by 550 yards. That is the houses not the witness. Assuming the properties have equal property spacing that would make the witness' property line 275 yards from the Pistorius' house. The houses are 550 yards apart not the witness who walked to the end of his property line to investigate the shouting and screaming. We know most people who are not hearing impaired can hear at that distance. False information has been posted that the houses are separated by a mile, the court records show 550 yards separation between houses. There is some confusion in the units of measurement between BSU ie. yards versus meters depending on which country the news reporter is from.

2. Were the shots fired into the door at a height of 1.5 meters?

Does that mean he was wearing his artificial legs? Is he lying about the circumstances of the killing?

3. Did he immediately call police? Or did a security guard call him?

Pistorius told the guard he was alright then cried into the cell phone.

4. Did "Supporters of Pistorius" arrive to contaminate the crime scene and remove evidence?

5. Does Pistorius really already have a Criminal Record?

[*]He shot someone in a restaurant and claimed it was accidental, after asking someone else to take the blame for the crime.

[*]He shot through the sunroof of a car while Samantha Taylor was driving

[*]He also has threatened at least two people according to his rap sheet.

6. Does the court seem to be stacked in favor of Pistorius being found not guilty?

7. Do you think money will to talk and he will be given a suspended sentence?

8. Will his deceased girlfriend's parents ever receive adequate compensation? and when?

I can hear it snow, (no joke). I think it's the Cherokee in me. I had to prove it to hubby. Leaves falling to you guys, probably sound soft. When I hear them, I hear a crash. Certain sounds can be freaky, especially jets passing over. I think they are crashing.

 

[shane13]

“The Sun” makes you buy their article to try to find out what they are claiming.

All other sites have Lerena saying the shot missed him from a direct hit by a couple of cms.

IIRC, some of the docs that came out include interviews with him saying he was almost shot ["just missed] directy in Tasha’s restaurant.

The most detail I have seen is here [which appears to be taken from THE SUN's article]: “South African Lerena was cut by flying debris when the bullet shattered a floor tile an inch from his right foot.”
http://www.alashock.com/2013/02/oscar-pistorius-shot-me-by-mistake.html

More from the above link: “The cruiserweight fighter, 20, said yesterday: It went off with a hell of a bang and cut one of my toes. The shot could have easily blown my foot off and ended my career — I’m very lucky…He took a bullet out of the chamber but seemed to forget there were more in the magazine. He pulled the trigger thinking it would just click but it went off and gave everyone in the restaurant a shock. [JMO, but the last sentence seems like pure BS, as Oscar is a very experienced shooter and gun handler. IMO, it’s more evidence of poor impulse control.]

Now here is Lerena’s page at the well known boxing website, boxrec.com: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=587030&cat=boxer

It lists KL winning a 6-round fight on Feb 16, 2013. This implies [to me at least] that KL had little or no break in training as this is within weeks of the Tasha’s incident. So any cut on Larena from impacted tile must have been very minor.

But in any case, it appears that he was not shot directly by any bullet.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Tulessa, some people do suffer from hyperacusis. My son, as a youngster, could hear the 'electronic' noise created by lights. He found it very loud and caused him at times to hold his head, particularly when walking into a store using a large amount of lighting. Thankfully as he has aged this problem has subsided.

Wiki have a section on it and possible causes and treatment. If Pistorius were to suffer from this it could be readily determined from tests. I think perhaps he does not. He would find the sound of the race track pistol unbearable and also crowd noise. You would have seen him hold his head to protect him from all the clicking of all those cameras in court.

 

[shane13]

I have posted here numerous times since February, that it is quite common to have witnesses report more shots than were actually fired.

So hopefully, one last time.

A gunshot's sound pulse or wave pattern will reflect off objects. At greater distances when these reflections off other objects reach the listener, they will be far enough apart in time that he/she will be able to differentiate the reflections from the direct gunshot pulse. At close distances, such reflections will be too close in time, and the brain will incorporate them as one pulse (shot.)

At greater distances, the reflections may bounce off other houses etc, and these reflections may be heard as separate gunshots. The reflections are commonly called echoes.

All Pros. needs, as I have said, is a physicist witness to explain this.

And IMO, the key point RE PM charge is the 17-minute gap between the 2 sets of shots. THis, of course does not change regarding echoes heard during either set of shots.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

'Pistorius and Steenkamp phones reveal no motive'[/B]
So what do you think the motive was? Not that motive is necessary for the court to know as long as there is intent.
What could they have been arguing about?[/[/B]

Reeva died on the same day she would give a speech to high school students about the hardships of abusive relationships and domestic vioelnce ..Istn't that very ironic ? It was reported later that speech would be abt her own previous experiences at the hands of one of her ex boyfriens (?) . I have doubts about that now.. Even if that's true IMO , OP being an arrogant , egotistical and abusive man himself , could they have been arguing about that speech ? He was her boyfriend at the time and was OP afraid that her speech could damage his reputation and the family name and his sponsorships ? Was he afraid of what people would think about him and their hearsay ? On the Valentines Day Reeva preferred making that speech which meant alot to her.. She would say ‘be brave, always see the positive' and 'make your voice heard.'" but she couldn't.. Did he try to prevent her making that speech for his own curiosities ? I have real doubts...

JMO

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainme...as-to-give-domestic-abuse-speech-day-she-died

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have posted here numerous times since February, that it is quite common to have witnesses report more shots than were actually fired.

So hopefully, one last time.

A gunshot's sound pulse or wave pattern will reflect off objects. At greater distances when these reflections off other objects reach the listener, they will be far enough apart in time that he/she will be able to differentiate the reflections from the direct gunshot pulse. At close distances, such reflections will be too close in time, and the brain will incorporate them as one pulse (shot.)

At greater distances, the reflections may bounce off other houses etc, and these reflections may be heard as separate gunshots. The reflections are commonly called echoes.

All Pros. needs, as I have said, is a physicist witness to explain this.

And IMO, the key point RE PM charge is the 17-minute gap between the 2 sets of shots. THis, of course does not change regarding echoes heard during either set of shots.

Apologies Shane. I am a relative newbie here and have not read your old posts. I found it a bit daunting to trawl through the whole thread but perhaps I should try.

 

[shane13]

Apologies Shane. I am a relative newbie here and have not read your old posts. I found it a bit daunting to trawl through the whole thread but perhaps I should try.

No apologies necessary from any newbies.

But I hope I made this clear to all?

And sometimes I wish Pros reads my posts.

Will they have a physicist as a witness, or will they allow Roux and Co. to try to tear earwitnesses apart on this issue?

 

[Pisto_lius]

Who, in the case "Oscar Pistorius" wants to offer its professional assistance to the investigating authorities - here are the contact details:


National Prosecuting Authorities of South Africa

Postal Address:
P/Bag X752
Pretoria
0001

HEAD OFFICE Tel: 012-845-6000

Website: http://www.npa.gov.za/

 

[Tulessa]

Tulessa, some people do suffer from hyperacusis. My son, as a youngster, could hear the 'electronic' noise created by lights. He found it very loud and caused him at times to hold his head, particularly when walking into a store using a large amount of lighting. Thankfully as he has aged this problem has subsided.

Wiki have a section on it and possible causes and treatment. If Pistorius were to suffer from this it could be readily determined from tests. I think perhaps he does not. He would find the sound of the race track pistol unbearable and also crowd noise. You would have seen him hold his head to protect him from all the clicking of all those cameras in court.

Thanks for the info IB. My mom was the same. The sounds are not annoying, just enhanced. I'm grateful for my hearing. I don't hear off the wall sounds. It just the sounds I do hear, are normal everyday sounds, just enhanced. Mom always told me that the Cherokee, had a special relationship with Mother Earth.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Reeva died on the same day she would give a speech to high school students about the hardships of abusive relationships and domestic vioelnce ..Istn't that very ironic ? It was reported later that speech would be abt her own previous experiences at the hands of one of her ex boyfriens (?) . I have doubts about that now.. Even if that's true IMO , OP being an arrogant , egotistical and abusive man himself , could they have been arguing about that speech ? He was her boyfriend at the time and was OP afraid that her speech could damage his reputation and the family name and his sponsorships ? Was he afraid of what people would think about him and their hearsay ? On the Valentines Day Reeva preferred making that speech which meant alot to her.. She would say ‘be brave, always see the positive' and 'make your voice heard.'" but she couldn't.. Did he try to prevent her making that speech for his own curiosities ? I have real doubts...

JMO

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainme...as-to-give-domestic-abuse-speech-day-she-died

It looks as though the abusive relationship referred to was some 8 years ago and before she moved to Joberg.

http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/02/reeva-steenkamp-domestic-violence-speech/

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Mike Steenkamp said the family have coped with her death by concentrating on her life rather than how she died.
Today a lawyer for Reeva Steenkamp's parents said they are in contact with the family of Pistorius.
The communication between the two families is over a possible out-of-court settlement that would compensate the Steenkamps for the killing of their daughter by the double-amputee Olympian, according to South African press reports.
A South African newspaper reported that negotiations were initiated by Pistorius' lawyers, who the paper said were 'desperately trying' to negotiate a settlement before Pistorius goes on trial in March on a charge of premeditated murder for Steenkamp's shooting death.
Dup de Bruyn, the lawyer for the Steenkamp family, told The Associated Press that 'the two sides are talking' but declined to comment further because of the delicate situation.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-face-future-competition.html#ixzz2cYWWpOqy

 

[Feynman]

Quote excerpted for brevity.

IMO it was in his best interest to hand it over as it was the phone on which he knew he had called the medics. Without that there was no record he had even called for help.

Of course there's a record - at the phone service provider. Also, the police could interview Stander and Netcare and ask about the calls. Others might disagree, but this seems obvious to me: Roux was not in the least worried that OP's claims in the affadavit about the two calls would be substantiated, so he took advantage of Botha's bumbling to keep the phone (not illegal) to raise some excellent points in the BH.

Unless he was concerned about what would be found on the phone why on earth would he defer for some months giving them the phone PIN - just to be bloody minded? Not a good idea, I would have thought. It would immediately create suspicion.

Not just to be bloody minded, but to mess with them and make them waste their time on something that is probably a red herring. I doubt the police could be any more suspicious than they are already. There may be nothing of interest at all in those WhatsApp texts, and Roux wants the PT to go around as many circles as possible. Who knows, maybe OP will conveniently remember the pwd right before the trial - just to screw with them one more time.

P. eventually told the police the pin number and, yes, once the police were aware of the existence of the phone calls they could check the call numbers but not the Whatsapp messages. The police are saying there is evidence that messages were sent after the event, hence their interest. I think it highly unlikely he cannot remember his Whatsapp password but thinks by deferring handing over the phone the Whatsapp messages will have been auto-deleted (which is what happens). How long is it before Whatsapp messages are deleted? That would be very interesting to know.

Well the WhatsApp servers don't keep the messages at all, so the delay is not about that. See

http://www.whatsapp.com/faq/wp/23607796

I agree OP is lying about the pwd. What is this business about WhatsApp messages after the event. I missed that. Do you have a link?

 

[seattlechiquita]

I wonder if it would be good to ask mods to move this thread to the Awaiting Trial section of the site? Makes me batty to see it on the Celebrity and Entertainment news section...

 

[Pisto_lius]

Reeva's family: civil suit and settlement

Media make me crazy :banghead:

The Times reported: OP is "desperately" seeking an out-of-court deal for compensation with Reeva's family and both his lawyer Kenny Oldwadge and Steenkamp's lawyer Petrus de Bruyn confirmed the discussions.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/08/20/oscar-pushing-for-civil-suit-settlement

news24 reported: OP's lawyer said on Tuesday he was unaware of talks with Reeva Steenkamp ’s family. Whereas Steenkamp's lawyer Petrus de Bruyn confirmed discussions were underway, but refused to give details and both said that they are in talks with each other.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-lawyer-unaware-of-Steenkamp-talks-20130820

And as if this wasn't enough The Telegraph reported: Steenkamp's family deny pursuing damages from OP. According to Reeva's uncle Mike they are NOT planning a civil suit against OP and the reports about the civil case were "wrongly directed". And Kenny Oldwadge also said he is not aware of these discussions and can't comment."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ny-pursuing-damages-from-Oscar-Pistorius.html


All these reports at the same day !
.
.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Expected witnesses for OP's trial

Among those expected to testify in court are police crime profiler and the head of the SAPS investigative psychology unit, Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne; Pistorius's ex-girlfriend Samantha Taylor and former soccer star Mark Batchelor.

Taylor is expected to testify about the time Pistorius, during a heated argument, allegedly fired his gun out of the sunroof of her car as she drove, while Batchelor will be questioned over Pistorius's threat to break his legs.

Labuschagne will, if called, testify on the Blade Runner's mental and emotional state and evaluate and dispute any evidence given by psychologists called by the defence.

Others who will testify about Pistorius and his behaviour include 17 residents of Silverwood estate, where Pistorius lived and where the shooting occurred.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/08/20/oscar-pushing-for-civil-suit-settlement