General Discussion Thread #4

[Pisto_lius]

Pisto_lius That's a great IMO sign!

TXL :blowkiss: - own creation :blushing:

Shall I give you the link?

 

[natsound]

Some "tidbits" as reminder


"Tidbit" 1

As we know: OP killed Reeva because he heard a "noise" from another area of his house and believed that someone - an intruder/intruders - had entered his house. It filled him so heavily "with horror and fear" that he grabbed his pistol and fired FOUR shots at the toilet door.

It seems on two other, very similar occasions he had his finger not so fast on the button - despite same panic feelings :whistle:


First occasion

Dexter, the son of Mike Azzie (OP’s racing horse trainer) was at OP’s house two weeks before Christmas and recalled how he knocked over a fan and OP became panic-stricken.

OP immediately grabbed his gun for protection before shouting to check if Dexter was OK.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776

Why he (OP) fired at Dexter not as fast as at Reeva? Because he CHECKED OUT THIS NOISE FIRST !

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Second occasion

Three months before he killed Reeva, OP tweeted:



Why didn't he blast the washing machine to shreds? Because he CHECKED OUT THIS NOISE FIRST !

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Two other "tidbits" will follow as soon as possible.....

Unfortunately, OP's trigger-happy, knee-jerk history is golden for his defense. They will claim jumpy OP jumped to the conclusion that there was an intruder in his bathroom, and bang bang bang. :facepalm:

 

[Interested Bystander]

Some "tidbits" as reminder


"Tidbit" 1

As we know: OP killed Reeva because he heard a "noise" from another area of his house and believed that someone - an intruder/intruders - had entered his house. It filled him so heavily "with horror and fear" that he grabbed his pistol and fired FOUR shots at the toilet door.

It seems on two other, very similar occasions he had his finger not so fast on the button - despite same panic feelings :whistle:


First occasion

Dexter, the son of Mike Azzie (OP’s racing horse trainer) was at OP’s house two weeks before Christmas and recalled how he knocked over a fan and OP became panic-stricken.

OP immediately grabbed his gun for protection before shouting to check if Dexter was OK.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776

Why he (OP) fired at Dexter not as fast as at Reeva? Because he CHECKED OUT THIS NOISE FIRST !

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Second occasion

Three months before he killed Reeva, OP tweeted:



Why didn't he blast the washing machine to shreds? Because he CHECKED OUT THIS NOISE FIRST !

-----------

Two other "tidbits" will follow as soon as possible.....

Excellent points.

 

[Pisto_lius]

It has appeared that the MSM and magazines were hoping that OP and Reeva would be SA's Golden Celebrity couple. But I don't think that Reeva was cheating on OP rather that she knew he was possibly cheating on her. I think Reeva wanted a committed relationship with OP or nothing.

http://fabwags.com/erin-stear-the-blade-runner-oscar-pistorius-affair/

Of course tabloids and magazines hoped that - they benefit from those stories.

I also don't belive that Reeva was cheating on OP. But I'm rather sure she knew he was cheating on her.

I noticed some names of his amours:

Samantha Taylor
Jenna Edkins
Vicky Miles
Chanelle Du Plessis
Melissa Rom
Anastassia Khozissova
Vanessa Haywood

Nothing of this was really serious and constantly the media reported about his changing affairs. This couldn't be kept hidden from her.

But I guess, Reeva also did not really take the relationship seriously. It was a win-win situation and Reeva benefited by it for her career just as much

 

[Estelle]

Of course tabloids and magazines hoped that - they benefit from those stories.

I also don't belive that Reeva was cheating on OP. But I'm rather sure she knew he was cheating on her.

I noticed some names of his amours:

Samantha Taylor
Jenna Edkins
Vicky Miles
Chanelle Du Plessis
Melissa Rom
Anastassia Khozissova
Vanessa Haywood

Nothing of this was really serious and constantly the media reported about his changing affairs. This couldn't be kept hidden from her.

But I guess, Reeva also did not really take the relationship seriously. It was a win-win situation and Reeva benefited by it for her career just as much

I agree with you. I think I read that Reeva used to follow Samantha Taylor on Instagram. I also read some nasty tweets sent to Reeva in that last week by a woman whose name does not appear in that list. If you want the links I will find them tomorrow as I have to go to bed now.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Unfortunately, OP's trigger-happy, knee-jerk history is golden for his defense. They will claim jumpy OP jumped to the conclusion that there was an intruder in his bathroom, and bang bang bang. :facepalm:

I believe it is the other way around because "jumpy OP" :floorlaugh: NOT pulled the trigger on the two ocasion on which I have referred.

You forget one "bang" - there were four shots, sadly :candle: [smart-aleck modus off]

 

[Pisto_lius]

I agree with you. I think I read that Reeva used to follow Samantha Taylor on Instagram. I also read some nasty tweets sent to Reeva in that last week by a woman whose name does not appear in that list. If you want the links I will find them tomorrow as I have to go to bed now.

I think I know these stories, too.

Do you mean "tara" = @taraosborne?

I checked her: she was/is best (twitter)-buddy with OP and his friends Justin Divaris + Alexandros (Alex) Pilakoutas

Have a good night with sweet dreams and relaxing sleep - see/read you tomorrow :wave:
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[Pisto_lius]

To whom it may concern


Karyn Maughan @ karynmaughan

tweeted already in May that the trial against Hilton Botha and co-accused will happen on 27 August. It was her opinion that they can apply to NPA for case to be dropped.

Being the devils advocat I am keeping my fingers crossed for them.
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[MURDERER_SERVANT]

GINA MYERS WRITES HER A FINAL E-MAIL
Marie Claire Aug 19


http://www.marieclairvoyant.com/ent...st-friend-gina-myers-writes-her-a-final-email

 

[whiterum]

"Tidbit" 2
(once more: phone calls Stander / Netcare)





So, how could OP only ONE minute later call Netcare, if Stander heard him continue to cry because OP failed to put the phone down properly after the Stander call ended ?
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Botha says when Pistorius answered the phone to security guards, he said: "I'm all right," and started crying.

I thought the security guard phoned Pistorius and after OP said he was alright the security guard heard him crying as OP had forgotten to put the phone down,

 

[Feynman]

quote excerpted for brevity:

So, how could OP only ONE minute later call Netcare, if Stander heard him continue to cry because OP failed to put the phone down properly after the Stander call ended ?

A security guard heard OP cry etc. But isn't Stander the estate manager, and not a security guard?

 

[shane13]

BETWEEN THE TWO SETS OF SHOTS??????

I am confused now. It appears now that they are not referring to two sets of shots. Is that correct?





ARGUMENT 2-3AM...GUNSHOTS....LIGHT ON....SCREAMS...GUNSHOTS



NO MENTION OF ARGUMENT... SCREAMS.... SILENCE..... GUNSHOTS.... SCREAMING

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...esses-heard-a-woman-scream-then-gunshots.html

Now there are not two sets of gunshots!

Not sure why you have a problem here? The link you gave includes this:
"We have the statement of a person who said after he heard gunshots, he went to his balcony and saw the light was on. Then he heard a female screaming two to three times, then more gunshots,” Warrant Officer Botha told the court.

Clearly accoridng to the earwitness there were 2 sets of shots.
The indictment does not apparently specify the length of the time interval. I guess details saved for the trial.

If leaked media stories since the shooting are true, the witness said 17 minute gap between the 2 sets of shots.

So I don't think anytihng has changed, other than the gap interval is not stated in the indictment. I guess not needed to at this time.

Indictment just summarizes the total # of shots, but does not claim they were all fired in one volley.

 

[Estelle]

Not sure why you have a problem here? The link you gave includes this:
"We have the statement of a person who said after he heard gunshots, he went to his balcony and saw the light was on. Then he heard a female screaming two to three times, then more gunshots,” Warrant Officer Botha told the court.

Clearly accoridng to the earwitness there were 2 sets of shots.
The indictment does not apparently specify the length of the time interval. I guess details saved for the trial.

If leaked media stories since the shooting are true, the witness said 17 minute gap between the 2 sets of shots.

So I don't think anytihng has changed, other than the gap interval is not stated in the indictment. I guess not needed to at this time.

Indictment just summarizes the total # of shots, but does not claim they were all fired in one volley.

Shane, so are you implying that there was one shot then silence then three more shots? Do you agree that there were four shots in total? I say this because it has been sounding lately in the MSM reports that OP fired four shots in one volley.

 

[Estelle]

From reading most of the latest reports, it appears that OP may not have had his prosthetic legs on so was probably on his stumps when he fired the shots so it appears that the:

PROSECUTION'S CASE is to prove that OP is trigger-happy gunman prone to violent aggressive outbursts

versus

DEFENCE'S CASE is to show that OP's actions were reasonable for a person with a disability. Such a person would feel more vulnerable than an able-bodied person and react differently when their life is in danger. They will definitely argue for the court to lower the bar for OP.

So I am curious to know what you really think?

 

[shane13]

Shane, so are you implying that there was one shot then silence then three more shots? Do you agree that there were four shots in total? I say this because it has been sounding lately in the MSM reports that OP fired four shots in one volley.

Aleaady answered in my post.
The media is merely copying the extreme brevity of the indictments, in simply stating the total # of shots, and not the particulars. Not needed in the indictments.

 

[Estelle]

How likely is it that Pistorius can clear his name?

These are the questions to consider:

1. Pistorius' defence will depend on a number of psychological and forensic factors:

2. Does Pistorius have any hope of avoiding a criminal conviction for either murder or culpable homicide?

3. If the court accepts the subjective, honest belief that he alleges that he thought he was under attack, could he escape liability on murder on an intention defence - that he lacked the criminal intent to murder somebody?

4. If the court accepts that he acted according to the standards of the ordinary reasonable disabled person, and was therefore not negligent, then could he escape liability?

5. Can Pistorius convince the High Court that his actions needed to be judged as those of a disabled person who had a far greater sense of vulnerability and fear of being attacked?

6. Will the State's witnesses who heard a woman scream before they heard the sound of Pistorius’ gun firing add proof to the State's case?

7. Will the State be able to discredit or discount Pistorius' evidence with solid objective forensic evidence?

8. Is the police’s handling of that forensic evidence really already under fire or not? For example,
a) Botha walked through the area without foot coverings
b) The shattered door that Pistorius fired through was removed before the Defence experts were able to examine it
c) Defence experts discovered a bullet cartridge in the toilet - which the police had failed to pick up.

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/can-oscar-pistorius-clear-his-name

 

[Pisto_lius]

quote excerpted for brevity:



A security guard heard OP cry etc. But isn't Stander the estate manager, and not a security guard?

I trust the website of Silver Woods more than media reports

Silver Woods Country Estate Manager: Eugene St Leger Denny
http://www.silverwoods.co.za/contact/

Johan Stander is - as I know - the estate's security manager. Unfortunately, there is nothing about him on the Silver Woods website.

OP called him in his affidavit as "involved in the administration". Maybe some media omit the central part of his job description, so it became "estate manager"?

 

[shane13]

Final Word on the 4th and 5th Phones

I’ve posted this before.

The media stories about the alleged difficulties in opening up Pistorius’ 4th or 5th phone are quite hilarious to those in the know. Indeed to some of us they portend the possibility of a deep collusion between DT, Pros. and the media.

The truth is the following. South Africa has an intelligence agency and indeed has an intelligence agency division in SAPS.

Not only is it a trivial matter for such agents and agencies to open up any phone on the planet, but as I have stated here, every phone call, email and fax is recorded by Britain’s GCHQ and the USA’s NSA. They’ve been doing this since they first were created. (And before they were created, other agencies did this.)

The books by James Bamford began revealing this to the public since 1983. (There is nothing new in the “revelations” of Snowden recently.) I’ve read several books by Bamford. He was told this info by the NSA higher-ups, including the director IIRC!

So my point is that not only is it a trivial matter for SAPS or SA Intelligence Agency to either get whatever info is on the 4th and 5th phones. But the entire conversations between OP and whoever he called from those phones can be obtained either directly or certainly via request from their brethren in the GCHQ or the NSA.

If they really wanted to…

 

[Pisto_lius]

Some interesting tweets from the BH I overlooked until now. But please, take them with a grain of salt because much of what had been reported was erroneous

8.42 am - Nel asks why Pistorius did not call the security guard - the guard called him.

Also, if there was another phone at the scene that was used to call paramedics, why did the defence not offer it?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-granted-bail-live-1724052

I'm rather sure they meant Stander but called him "security guard" instead "security manager".

08.30 am - IO Botha adds that Pistorius told police on the scene he thought there was a burglar but could provide no explanation why, not even in his first warning statement.

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10.50 am - Botha agrees that there were no signs of assault on Reeva's body and no signs that she defended herself from an assault.

No signs of assault? How, the hell they’d call four gunshot wounds (right head, arm, hip, left finger)??? Maybe "make-up marks"?

No signs that she defended herself? If a person defends oneself, one often finds such signs on the attacker's body – not always/only on the victim’s.

What kind of signs of defense Roux expects on a victim’s body attacked with a gun and (allegedly) a cricket bat?

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11.50 am - Roux also tells the court that Pistorius's own forensic team found a spent bullet projectile inside the toilet bowl which police forensic teams did not find.

Botha says that police forensic results are not back yet.

Sounds to me like it cannot be ruled out police found this bullet, too.

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12.00 pm - Botha earlier said that two witnesses heard fighting and screaming from Pistorius's home.

Roux puts it to Botha that there was no female screaming.

Witnesses in court say Pistorius has stopped crying and actually smiled at his brother.

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12.20 pm - The prosecutor also argues that, although Botha has been criticised for not taking steps to find information, those with knowledge did not volunteer it.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-live-recap-court-1718837

comments:
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[shane13]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/State-to-seek-life-for-Pistorius-20130820

"Pretoria - State prosecutors will be seeking a mandatory minimum sentence of life imprisonment for Oscar Pistorius when he goes on trial in March 2014 for murdering Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day this year.

It appears the prosecution will rely on witness statements that screams were heard coming from Pistorius’s house before and after several gunshots rang out, Eyewitness News reported."

So IMO at trial if there are several earwitnesses that cannot be shaken from saying that they heard screaming or even loud arguing between a man and a woman just before the first shot, Oscar's entire alibi affidavit collapses. It is vaporized entirely so to speak.

Now we can surmise that DT will try to claim that it was a scream from Oscar that was heard, or that witnesses cannot be certain which house arguing or screaming came from.

But then again we have those reports especially from BEELD that state police and security went to Oscar’s house just a couple of hours before the shooting. So the earwitnesses know well where the screaming or shouting came from, and must have alerted cops and/or security to the correct location just a couple of hours before the shooting. And there appears to be quite a few neighbors on the witness list.

So again IMO if DT cannot shake the witnesses from their statements about the timeline and screams before and after, it implies
1. Oscar’s whole affidavit alibi is gone
2. The 17-minute gap implies that even if the 1st shot was done in a rage, the 17-minute gap, if it stands up, directly implies cold-blooded, premeditated murder so that poor Reeva could not tell the world what was done to her.

The above to me is key. The whole stumps thing seems like another diversion. It is the time gap, along with who he might have called at that time that proves the PM charge.

Note also the above now reports that Reeva's screaming AFTER first being shot were overheard.
This appears to be new information IMO.