General Discussion Thread #4

[kittychi]

If he is found guilty what is your thought about him being in prison Not that i feel sorry for the guy if indeed this was planned but do you think they would put him in the same prison as what a person with no disabillities would go to just wondering what ya all think.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had special treatment of some kind, but have no idea what lies ahead for him. His future looks bleak no matter how you look at it. Even if he gets away with it.

 

[Interested Bystander]

In one of the posts to an article in the Mirror someone seems to profess more knowledge than I have seen made public. It may be worth a read. <modsnip>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-athlete-wanted-boys-2217207#ixzz2f8qR3fz4
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

 

[Estelle]

In one of the posts to an article in the Mirror someone seems to profess more knowledge than I have seen made public. It may be worth a read. <modsnip>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-athlete-wanted-boys-2217207#ixzz2f8qR3fz4

I have read this comment before. It sounds to me as if it is from an "insider" who knows OP but is not necessarily loyal to him now. This "insider" has written other comments too alluding to the fact that OP was not as smitten or "in love" with RS as OP wants us to believe. OP has possibly demanded that Justin Divaris, Sam Greyvenstein and Graham Binge give the court this impression in their statements and they have been caught out in lying. Justin Divaris sold cars to OP so he has a vested interest in his relationship with OP for profit, Sam is his girlfriend and his cousin, Graham Binge is a family member. IMO they lied on OP's behalf to get him off on bail. I have been disappointed by them in their possible lack of integrity as Justin and Sam were the ones who introduced RS to OP on November 9, 2012. So where's their integrity and loyalty to RS? Was RS desperate to meet OP? IMO she loved him more than he loved her.

That is why I have never taken to the supposed jealous rage theory about Warren Lahoud seriously as the motive. It might have been just a coincidence that OP phoned RS twice at that time about trivial issues and he did not realise that RS was with WL at the time eg "Can you buy xxx for tonight?" "I will phone you back later about xxxx", etc. RS had probably not told OP that she was meeting up with WL.

Again, this is why I have been looking for more serious issues for RS and OP to argue about than RS simply meeting up with WL the previous day.

My gut feeling is that OP wanted to pursue Erin Stear at the time. I do believe that OP wanted to end his relationship with RS that night but she would not accept it. I do not think he planned to murder her at that stage. He just wanted to return to his mates for the guys night out. But RS felt cheated by him and thought she could resolve it before she went home. But OP continued to ignore her with conversations on the phone. He then could have felt so stressed that he took performance enhancing (or other drugs) and his behaviour became more aggressive. RS then realised that this was a side of OP that she had never seen before so she discovered his secret either innocently or by searching for it while he was on the phone ignoring her and the evidence was there that he had been a drug cheat. She then confronted him about it and the rest is history. With his being exposed to RS as a drug cheat, OP in the end decided that RS had to go that night as that was his worst fear.

This is only my opinion and speculation.

 

[Estelle]

If he is found guilty what is your thought about him being in prison Not that i feel sorry for the guy if indeed this was planned but do you think they would put him in the same prison as what a person with no disabillities would go to just wondering what ya all think.

What an interesting question you pose here!

Welcome to the OP thread too as I have not noticed you posting on it before!

:welcome4:

I have read before that if OP is sent to prison, he will not be allowed to have his prosthetic legs with him so he could be in a wheel chair or have to walk on his stumps. The reason is that they could be used as weapons.

However, he could claim that he needs regular medical attention and so on.

If you have read the Shrien Dewani case, IMO he has been feigning PSTD for years as an excuse not to return to South Africa to be tried where his alleged crime has been committed. There has also been comment in the British MSM that the South African goals are overcrowded, etc.

Ideally, IMO a criminal is a criminal and as such should not get any special treatment.

So what do others think?

 

[CanManEh]

Well thanks estelle I think your right i think this is my first time posting on the OP thread but Im not new iam all over the place on here lol

 

[Estelle]

Well thanks estelle I think your right i think this is my first time posting on the OP thread but Im not new iam all over the place on here lol

I am all over the place here too these days. But I would still like to have your comments on my previous post to you.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have read this comment before. It sounds to me as if it is from an "insider" who knows OP but is not necessarily loyal to him now. This "insider" has written other comments too alluding to the fact that OP was not as smitten or "in love" with RS as OP wants us to believe. OP has possibly demanded that Justin Divaris, Sam Greyvenstein and Graham Binge give the court this impression in their statements and they have been caught out in lying. Justin Divaris sold cars to OP so he has a vested interest in his relationship with OP for profit, Sam is his girlfriend and his cousin, Graham Binge is a family member. IMO they lied on OP's behalf to get him off on bail. I have been disappointed by them in their possible lack of integrity as Justin and Sam were the ones who introduced RS to OP on November 9, 2012. So where's their integrity and loyalty to RS? Was RS desperate to meet OP? IMO she loved him more than he loved her.

That is why I have never taken to the supposed jealous rage theory about Warren Lahoud seriously as the motive. It might have been just a coincidence that OP phoned RS twice at that time about trivial issues and he did not realise that RS was with WL at the time eg "Can you buy xxx for tonight?" "I will phone you back later about xxxx", etc. RS had probably not told OP that she was meeting up with WL.

Again, this is why I have been looking for more serious issues for RS and OP to argue about than RS simply meeting up with WL the previous day.

My gut feeling is that OP wanted to pursue Erin Stear at the time. I do believe that OP wanted to end his relationship with RS that night but she would not accept it. I do not think he planned to murder her at that stage. He just wanted to return to his mates for the guys night out. But RS felt cheated by him and thought she could resolve it before she went home. But OP continued to ignore her with conversations on the phone. He then could have felt so stressed that he took performance enhancing (or other drugs) and his behaviour became more aggressive. RS then realised that this was a side of OP that she had never seen before so she discovered his secret either innocently or by searching for it while he was on the phone ignoring her and the evidence was there that he had been a drug cheat. She then confronted him about it and the rest is history. With his being exposed to RS as a drug cheat, OP in the end decided that RS had to go that night as that was his worst fear.

This is only my opinion and speculation.

I actually have never thought WL was the issue. More, I thought that RS had heard something about OP's behaviour that had upset her and she may have brought the subject up over dinner on the 13th. Sadly, as I have said earlier, I think RS (though a loving and kind person) was in love with love and was quite naive in this respect. I tend to think at 30 one probably should have enough experience to know the difference between infatuation (which can so often make allowances for poor behaviour from a partner) and a truly deep and abiding love with mutual respect. Perhaps the relationship was too young and she too eager. It is so sad that her young life was ended by someone who appears to have a lifestyle and temper that we are likely to hear a lot more of during the trial.

Earlier, on here, personality disorders were mentioned and I tend to agree he suffers from some such affliction. Borderline personality disorder seems to slot in nicely with his behaviour though I think the newer European definition is perhaps more appropriate.

http://www.bpdworld.org/what-is-bpd/diagnostic-criteria

 

[Estelle]

I actually have never thought WL was the issue. More, I thought that RS had heard something about OP's behaviour that had upset her and she may have brought the subject up over dinner on the 13th. Sadly, as I have said earlier, I think RS (though a loving and kind person) was in love with love and was quite naive in this respect. I tend to think at 30 one probably should have enough experience to know the difference between infatuation (which can so often make allowances for poor behaviour from a partner) and a truly deep and abiding love with mutual respect. Perhaps the relationship was too young and she too eager. It is so sad that her young life was ended by someone who appears to have a lifestyle and temper that we are likely to hear a lot more of during the trial.

Earlier, on here, personality disorders were mentioned and I tend to agree he suffers from some such affliction. Borderline personality disorder seems to slot in nicely with his behaviour though I think the newer European definition is perhaps more appropriate.

http://www.bpdworld.org/what-is-bpd/diagnostic-criteria

I agree with your previous posts when you have claimed that RS was immature for her age acting like a teenager but I have not posted that I agreed with you before. I guess I was reticent to say anything before as I like what I know about RS.

By age 30, most people have learned about romantic love and often suffered from the end of it. Imo, like you, I predict that RS was naive, and it appears that she could have had some very superficial relationships before which could have ended up being more plutonic so she got bored. But real love is about what RS probably had with WL but she did not realise it due to her immaturity for her age. Going out with a younger man when you are in your late 20s is often a sign of this as women are said to mature earlier than men do. IMO RS tweets like a teenager too.

IMO OP could have a personality disorder - borderline personality disorder fits but so does narcissistic personality disorder. He could have both. I also think OP could be a sociopath who believes that the world owes him a living - hence his previous sponsorships.

Even if he is not found guilty, his athletic career seems to be over as I cannot imagine him competing in the 2016 Olympic Games which would have been his ambition before 14/2/13.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Again, this is why I have been looking for more serious issues for RS and OP to argue about than RS simply meeting up with WL the previous day.

My gut feeling is that OP wanted to pursue Erin Stear at the time. I do believe that OP wanted to end his relationship with RS that night but she would not accept it. I do not think he planned to murder her at that stage. He just wanted to return to his mates for the guys night out. But RS felt cheated by him and thought she could resolve it before she went home. But OP continued to ignore her with conversations on the phone. He then could have felt so stressed that he took performance enhancing (or other drugs) and his behaviour became more aggressive. RS then realised that this was a side of OP that she had never seen before so she discovered his secret either innocently or by searching for it while he was on the phone ignoring her and the evidence was there that he had been a drug cheat. She then confronted him about it and the rest is history. With his being exposed to RS as a drug cheat, OP in the end decided that RS had to go that night as that was his worst fear.

This is only my opinion and speculation.

Estelle I also think that she could have caught her like you mentioned but I have
some questions

1- Could Reeva distinguish a herbal remedy with a doping supplement ? I mean he would prob lie to her that they are his routine supplements. Even Botha couldn't ..lol

2-Even if she realised whats going on , I rather think a loving woman's reaction wouldn't be to threaten him t o tell the authorities.Imo she would try to help him, tell him that he' s strong and didn't need doping etc

3- If he would get so mad and in the end kill a person , why not taking them alone but near Reeva?
He could be more careful abt that ..

But I agree that she could have seen heem getting drugs, sth like cocaine or so.
rather than doping.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

There were many quotes from Reeva's friends / relatives that OP was very intense in the relationship, he was moving so fast and that REeva sometimes
felt caged. I also believe that as Whiterum mentioned , OP got jealous when he heard that they would go the cinema that night and he called and invited her to his house . His intent was to go out with the boys after dinner , he didn't even garage his car and on the phone I think it was before dinner , he politely refusd his cousin coming saying that there were hijacking events lately (how touching)
However he himself was not afraid of driving in the middle of the nights.
He like a macho man wanted to leave her at home alone and she surely wouldn't accept that. He was the one making her cancel her programme with the boys
and the arguments started and prob that was not the first time he was leaving her alone and going with his friends and acting as if she didn't exist .
Reeva texted CM that she was too tired to come at 10 pm . No wonder she was too tired because of the arguments and of OP. I believe that she was the one who wanted to leave and she decided that was over and wouldn't let herself abused any more. She texted WL the prev week maybe to share some of her
problems but OP called every 20 minutes and theeir meeting lasted for 40 min.
He didn't want her to go. Arguments escalated , insults , prob he had gotten alcohol or drugs and maybe he hit her and in the end of the day unfortunately she was dead.

 

[whiterum]

If he is found guilty what is your thought about him being in prison Not that i feel sorry for the guy if indeed this was planned but do you think they would put him in the same prison as what a person with no disabillities would go to just wondering what ya all think.

IMO , whatever provisions the SA prison authorities would have for any other disabled guy convicted of the crime of premeditated murder. If they have limited or no such provisions, he should have thought of the consequences of his actions before he shot four times through his toilet door, violently taking a precious life.

He obviously fully expected to get away with it as he has done in past lesser offences. 'I'll survive, I always win ' in answer to the police officer, who informed him he could spend a long time in prison. Well if that is the case he should have no problem surviving a few decades in jail, his family with all their clout will make sure all his needs are provided for, except his freedom of course.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/sep/18/disabled-prisoners-lives-risk-treatment-jails

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/21/world/africa/south-africa-prison-conditions/index.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Here isn't going anything, therefore with your agreement (?) I post something, I didn't know and didn't look at. OMG, OP is really gooood looking ............

http://www.whosdatedwho.com/tpx_5509595/oscar-pistorius/magazinecovers


..... and I have found the couch on the left side from the bed, which we missed weaks ago (video).

http://www.celebrityballa.com/video-gallery/Oscar-Pistorius?nr=2

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Below links are the statement analysis of OP from different sources.Not sure if they were posted before..they are really interesting...

http://www.linguisticstatementanalysis.com/SOTM/Pistorius.pdf

http://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.blogspot.com/2013/02/oscar-pistorius-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-by.html

http://www.statementanalysis.com/oscar-pistorius/

http://graffitiwith.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/analysis-of-the-oscar-pistorius-murder-case/

http://www.criminalintel.com/?p=6519

 

[whiterum]

Below links are the statement analysis of OP from different sources.Not sure if they were posted before..they are really interesting...

http://www.linguisticstatementanalysis.com/SOTM/Pistorius.pdf

http://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.blogspot.com/2013/02/oscar-pistorius-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-by.html

http://www.statementanalysis.com/oscar-pistorius/

http://graffitiwith.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/analysis-of-the-oscar-pistorius-murder-case/

http://www.criminalintel.com/?p=6519

Thanks M_S for the links, some fascinating and excellent points here that makes for very interesting reading.

IMO his affidavit while sufficient to get him bail could under expert scrutiny and questioning eventually sink him. It also reveals a lot about his true character even the prosecutor recognised the arrogance in his words . That he wants to continue with his life as if this incident never happened. A total lack of insight into the seriousness of what he's done. He also highlighted OP's words that he would stand trial "should there be one".

IMO, also the casual words he used to describe events that led to a young woman's violent death at his hands, IMO portray an author with unnatural human feelings and responses to the horrific events he is supposedly reliving. Certainly not the 'Mr Nice Guy' who would not be capable of such an act as his DT would have you believe.

 

[kittychi]

Thanks M_S for the links, some fascinating and excellent points here that makes for very interesting reading.

IMO his affidavit while sufficient to get him bail could under expert scrutiny and questioning eventually sink him. It also reveals a lot about his true character even the prosecutor recognised the arrogance in his words . That he wants to continue with his life as if this incident never happened. A total lack of insight into the seriousness of what he's done. He also highlighted OP's words that he would stand trial "should there be one".

IMO, also the casual words he used to describe events that led to a young woman's violent death at his hands, IMO portray an author with unnatural human feelings and responses to the horrific events he is supposedly reliving. Certainly not the 'Mr Nice Guy' who would not be capable of such an act as his DT would have you believe.

He went for offense rather than defense from the git-go.

Imagine him being totally sorry, remorseful and guilt-ridden at his careless mistake, but keeping his scenario of an accidental event in place. IMO he would have a much more compassionate general public, judge and prosecutor instead of what he has now. IMO he may not have been charged with PM, but a lower charge instead, and compassion for him may have gotten him off with very minimal consequence.

His own attitude has made his situation what it is, but he is so arrogant he doesn't even see that. Instead he sees himself as the victim.

Nothing his DT does can change his attitude now and he has given them some very tight constraints. He has made his own bed and will have to sleep in it.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks M_S for the links, some fascinating and excellent points here that makes for very interesting reading.

IMO his affidavit while sufficient to get him bail could under expert scrutiny and questioning eventually sink him. It also reveals a lot about his true character even the prosecutor recognised the arrogance in his words . That he wants to continue with his life as if this incident never happened. A total lack of insight into the seriousness of what he's done. He also highlighted OP's words that he would stand trial "should there be one".

IMO, also the casual words he used to describe events that led to a young woman's violent death at his hands, IMO portray an author with unnatural human feelings and responses to the horrific events he is supposedly reliving. Certainly not the 'Mr Nice Guy' who would not be capable of such an act as his DT would have you believe.

Thanks for the links. Very interesting reading.

However, I think the problem here maybe that his DT wrote/rewrote a lot of it and I am sure that should any claims be made that this type of statement had any value would be shot down very quickly as this is not an exact science and is considered to be of limited value and would never be accepted in court. What it does do, however, is allow detectives to home in on possible untruths which could be of value in cross examination.

the following is an excerpt on the subject from Wiki.

"Aldert Vrij, one of the leading authorities on detection of deception (DOD) techniques, points out that most studies of the technique did not rely on the ground truth being established and thus examiners could not be certain if "examinees were actually telling the truth or lying."[4] He also notes that there is no standardization among the different methods of analysis and this "implies that much depends on the subjective interpretation and skill of the individual" performing the analysis. Vrij attributes this to an absence of theoretical underpinning behind SCAN/statement analysis.[5] Vrij characterizes SCAN/statement analysis as weaker than CBCA because SCAN/statement analysis lacks "a set of cohesive criteria," being instead "a list of individual criteria."[6] Vrij argues that SCAN/statement analysis is best used as a technique to guide investigative interviews rather than as a "lie detection tool."[7]

Critics argue that the technique encourages investigators to prejudge a suspect as deceptive and affirm a presumption of guilt before the interrogation process has even begun. Statement analysis in general has been criticized as "theoretically vague" with little or no empirical evidence in its favor, and SCAN in particular has been characterized as "junk science" [1] with the Skeptic's Dictionary and Skeptical Inquirer magazine[8] classifying it as a form of pseudoscience.[2]"


Statement analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[whiterum]

IMO one of the most valuable witnesses for the pros will be his ex GF.

Her remarks that OP has such a way with women. She's probably not the only one he's got and that she would reveal what he made her go through before her lawyer stepped in. Also that OP is certainly not what people think he is, that certainly proved true. Then there is his loutish behaviour and threats of violence to her male friends, not to mention that in her and another's presence and in a rage he retrieved a loaded gun, stood up and fired through the car sunroof.

I think a witness such as an ex could reveal a lot more than anyone about his true character. Also his usual nightly habits regarding the fan, curtains , blinds, balcony doors , his bathroom window etc.

IMO his ex has already revealed a lot about the dark side of this guy and I'm sure she could reveal a lot more.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

IMO one of the most valuable witnesses for the pros will be his ex GF.
......................................................................

IMO his ex has already revealed a lot about the dark side of this guy and I'm sure she could reveal a lot more.

Yes, ST could. But this very poorest girl of all of OP's Ex will have great fear to testify the detailed truth. In the past she had tried to speak but was hampered by someone somehow. I think, OP was not as uninvolved.

Also her problem with social network and real people living around her (around her all over the world!): ST was already nastily attacked for only 1 mini statement about OP. Her mother was attacked as well.

I am sorry for this girl. She is still alive, but what to endure now and in the future, even if it helps towards a just judgment.

:facepalm:

 

[whiterum]

Yes, ST could. But this very poorest girl of all of OP's Ex will have great fear to testify the detailed truth. In the past she had tried to speak but was hampered by someone somehow. I think, OP was not as uninvolved.

Also her problem with social network and real people living around her (around her all over the world!): ST was already nastily attacked for only 1 mini statement about OP. Her mother was attacked as well.

I am sorry for this girl. She is still alive, but what to endure now and in the future, even if it helps towards a just judgment.

:facepalm:

All the witnesses who will be called by either side should not allow loyalty or fear to stop them from coming forth with the absolute truth. There should be no hampering of witnesses now in a premeditated murder trial since that would be a serious offence in itself. A young woman's life has been violently taken, so why would any law abiding person want to hold back anything that would impede justice for the victim or her family. There are a minority of people on the social network or otherwise who will attack others no matter what they say or do but this should not deter anyone from being truthful and in doing so live their lives with a clear conscience.