General Discussions #4

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'll volunteer for tomorrow!

 

[golfmom]

Now, I may be acting my hair color, BUT if the warrant says computer file
but doesn't list a computer in the inventory, would it make sense for LE to download files onto a jump drive or something of the like? It's the easiest way to take important info on a computer without having to take the computer,right?That way, the inventory would only need to mention comp. files and not the entire computer or pda.
thoughts?

But, it showed that was what they were going to search for, it did not show up on the list of things they actually took.

 

[misterallgood]

Now, I may be acting my hair color, BUT if the warrant says computer file
but doesn't list a computer in the inventory, would it make sense for LE to download files onto a jump drive or something of the like? It's the easiest way to take important info on a computer without having to take the computer,right?That way, the inventory would only need to mention comp. files and not the entire computer or pda.
thoughts?

No, they'd want the entire computer to recover deleted files. Simply loading files wouldn't do for in-depth research -- they'd need access to the core memory of the computer, be able to open up a hex editor and really dig into files deleted and current.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Now, I may be acting my hair color, BUT if the warrant says computer file
but doesn't list a computer in the inventory, would it make sense for LE to download files onto a jump drive or something of the like? It's the easiest way to take important info on a computer without having to take the computer,right?That way, the inventory would only need to mention comp. files and not the entire computer or pda.
thoughts?

Are they able to duplicate the hard drive exactly? Hidden files, post-defrag's, etc. I don't know the terminology but you know ... the files that have been copied over but can still be accessed by professionals during an investigation. One way or the other, I think that they would have mentioned computer files in the inventory if they had taken anything related to the computers.

ETA: Never mind ... Mister A. answered as I was asking.

 

[golfmom]

No, they'd want the entire computer to recover deleted files. Simply loading files wouldn't do for in-depth research -- they'd need access to the core memory of the computer, be able to open up a hex editor and really dig into files deleted and current.

misterallgood, could you explain IP address to us and how they work. Could someone in Florida somehow show up as someone in Ohio for example?

 

[anneshirley]

No, they'd want the entire computer to recover deleted files. Simply loading files wouldn't do for in-depth research -- they'd need access to the core memory of the computer, be able to open up a hex editor and really dig into files deleted and current.

Thanks, GM and Mr.AG. I knew my haircolor was coming through. :doh:

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

Are they able to duplicate the hard drive exactly? Hidden files, post-defrag's, etc. I don't know the terminology but you know ... the files that have been copied over but can still be accessed by professionals during an investigation. One way or the other, I think that they would have mentioned computer files in the inventory if they had taken anything related to the computers.

And as a point of reference:

In the Michael Peterson case, in Durham as well, the search warrant indicated the same generic type wording. But in that seach, they indeed physically took each and every computer in the house. And, as Mr. A points out, that's when the really nitty gritty happens.... when they start digging throught the hard drive. Deleted files, histories of web pages, you name it. And in that case, Michael Peterson, having access to that particular information, provided invesigators, and the DA, with untold amounts of information.

I say this over and over, but it does strike me as so, so very curious though. No computers/PDA taken. But they obviously KNEW someone at that house had a PDA, since they took the charger!

 

[Jesstexas]

Accordingly, there is NOTHING about ANY computer, computer files, ANYTHING listed in that inventory, with the exception of what they listed as a "palm pilot charger."

I just do NOT get that, at all.

Maybe the warrant was SUPPOSED to say "palm pilot/charger."

 

[anneshirley]

Maybe the warrant was SUPPOSED to say "palm pilot/charger."

We all know LE is capable of mistakes...we've seen it happen before, but I thought they had to be 100% accurate on those warrant inventories.

 

[golfmom]

Maybe the warrant was SUPPOSED to say "palm pilot/charger."

My understanding is that they are very specific on exactly what they took as it is basically a receipt.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

My understanding is that they are very specific on exactly what they took as it is basically a receipt.

If Raven volunteered the palm pilot, computer and laptop to LE, would it be on the search warrant receipt? Not saying it happened, just wondering if LE received it another way? This is to "Detective 101" to miss taking the computers in the house. I just can't believe LE would overlook this.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Maybe the warrant was SUPPOSED to say "palm pilot/charger."

They would have listed the palm pilot and the palm pilot charger separately, IMO, for exactly this reason. They don't want any confusion with wording.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

Maybe the warrant was SUPPOSED to say "palm pilot/charger."

I actually thought of that, but, ruled it out.

If you look closely at the search warrant for that item, they actually listed a Model Number (FA109A).

I searched the model number and came up with the following:

HP iPAQ FA109A#AC3 USB Desktop Cradle with Battery Slot for H2200 series


The Hewlett Packard iPAQ 2200 series is a PDA, pretty high end and sophisticated. Came out in it's original version in 2003, but with newer versions since. It retails I think around $375 or so.

That cradle, or charger, is used to do just that, charge up the batteries.

And remember, Raven used to be some sort of sales rep for HP.

So, while I think that's always possible the wording is wrong on the warrant, me gut tells me that they would have listed the model number for the actual PDA as well, had they taken it....

 

[Jesstexas]

So, while I think that's always possible the wording is wrong on the warrant, me gut tells me that they would have listed the model number for the actual PDA as well, had they taken it....

Excellent point. Obviously the PDA wasn't there, or they would have taken that too. Unless, of course, the check and charger appeared to have some stains on them (maybe blood)? Those items may have been taken for that reason, rather than for financial evidence reasons.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

This is not directed at anyone in general, but I wanted to remind folks to try to be kind to other posters.
Some people have been ridiculed or blasted for putting out the idea that this may have been a robbery maybe even a random robbery. Just because the police have stated early on that it was not a random act don't base all your thinking on this. We don't have anyother info from LE, how do we know they have not changed their mind on this?
This is suppose to be a place to exchange ideas and bounce them off of each other. Short of saying he was controlled by aliens, lets give each theory a fair shake.

I don't agree with the statement that the police may have changed their mind that this isn't a random act. In the very last news broadcast, just a few days ago, the police stated that this was not a random act and that the public did not need to fear. IMO, how could they make this statement if it was a possible robbery? Wouldn't the neighbors and other citizens of Durham have reason to fear that a robber turned to murder?

I agree that we need to bounce ideas off each other but if a theory doesn't sound right, I will question it, and apologize in advance, if my questions sound like I am attacking. It is not my intent.

To date, there has been nothing posted to make me change my mind that this is a robbery gone bad and imo, the latest police statement backs that up. However, I am opened to more ideas about this theory or any other one.

 

[Jenifred]

They would have listed the palm pilot and the palm pilot charger separately, IMO, for exactly this reason. They don't want any confusion with wording.

I won't even mention the silver currency problem.....

 

[misterallgood]

misterallgood, could you explain IP address to us and how they work. Could someone in Florida somehow show up as someone in Ohio for example?

Yes -- for instance, webmasters hate AOL for that reason -- if I'm surfing via AOL from Georgia, it will show up as coming from Manassas, Virginia. An AOL surfer in Texas looks like they are coming from Kansas.

There are two types of IP address -- static and dynamic. AOL's are dynamic, meaning they shift constantly, though I've found that the first set of numbers will often stay the same, and because of the way you access AOL's servers to use the net, where ever their server farm is will show up as the geographic destination.

Basically IP means Internet Protocol number, and every machine has one. AOL is still more an exception than a rule as to skewing geographic locations, though -- for instance, a place I used to work had a fixed IP -- always the same set of numbers -- and since the server that accessed the internet was onsite, if I did a geographic trace it would show me my work location. Generally you can guarantee, outside of AOL, if someone shows up as being in the Charlotte or Memphis area, they are probably in the Charlotte or Memphis area. There's a utility called a ping that basically sends a packet of data back along the route the computer traveled through various servers, and this is how a geotrace is done.

IP detection is still a lot of guesswork, though -- with telecommuting, people using their work's service for all their surfing, war-driving, etc, you can't guarantee that people are always surfing from where it looks like they are surfing from. Kinko's is another instance -- my computer was down one day and I stopped in at a Kinko's near my house to check my e-mail. While there I looked at my blog. Later the Kinko's hit showed up as coming from California, even though I'm in Georgia. Basically that meant that even Kinko's computers in Georgia have access the internet through a server in Cali.

I don't feel like I've explained it very well, but it's actually pretty confusing and complex no matter how you slice it.

Mr. A.

 

[golfmom]

:laugh:

I don't feel like I've explained it very well, but it's actually pretty confusing and complex no matter how you slice it.

Mr. A.

It probably was a bad day for me to ask ... I'm pretty fuzzy and not connecting the dots as clearly as I normally do. I think that I'm going to reread it tom. and if I don't understand it then ... I'll ask you a bunch more questions!

 

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh:

It probably was a bad day for me to ask ... I'm pretty fuzzy and not connecting the dots as clearly as I normally do. I think that I'm going to reread it tom. and if I don't understand it then ... I'll ask you a bunch more questions!

What I get is that there is no way to know for sure where someone is web surfing from. Is that easier to comprehend on a fuzzy day?:blowkiss:

 

[Timex]

What I get is that there is no way to know for sure where someone is web surfing from. Is that easier to comprehend on a fuzzy day?:blowkiss:

Correct. The average user will have an IP that would show their basic area, but anyone that is serious about hiding their where-abouts can do so without much trouble. There are all types of anonomizer programs out there.