General theory thread and motives rehashed #2

[doobiedoo52]

OK.. We have a child who has been reported missing....The area is swarming with LE attempting to find out what happened to Haleigh that morning and LE found time to serve Tommy Croslin with a citation concerning a complaint that was made a week earlier... Not buying that one...And I don't care what the report states...
Too too much hink concerning reports that have been released by LE for my liking...JMHO

Actually, I can entirely believe they served this citation during the search. If you've ever listened in the scanner thread, every time someone is stopped or questioned, they will pull up a list of priors, outstanding warrants, etc. In this case, a citation was waiting to be delivered and I'm sure the residents of 116 Tyler were scanned for all this. Bingo--here's an outstanding citation for animal nuisance--we're here in the area, we're going to serve it. It's dispatch's responsibility to relay these things to the officer. It's just part of their protocol. JMO

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I have a quick question about something that makes we wonder. According to Cobra himself (not just RC)--he says that Tim got up around 1:00 that morning and the van and JO were missing. If I had borrowed a vehicle from my brother and I woke up in the middle of the night and found it gone, I would sure as heck be calling around to make sure my house guest had that van or that my brother, himself, came and got it. So theoretically there should be some phone activity from Tim's, Chelsea's or their land line phone around that time of night. And someone answered that call with an explanation or there would have been a call to LE about a stolen van.

My question is: Did Tim tell Chelsea any of this, but didn't want to put himself in the middle of the mess so refused to tell LE? It certainly seemed like Chelsea wanted the info out there, but could only say the part she actually witnessed: the keys being moved and the van being parked differently. She totally omitted the part about Tim waking up and finding the van gone. Granted, it was heresay from her husband, but did he tell LE? If so, then they KNEW that Joe or Tommy had that van that night and they KNEW Misty stated early on a comment about her blanket in the "van they took". Why on earth wasn't Joe detained before he left the state? I think I've lost all confidence in this case ever being solved. Sigh

IMO, the info Chelsea wanted out there was the same info Misty is spewing...Joe did it. Chelsea admitts that Joe was staying with her, why not tell LE Joe left the MH if he did? How could she not know if he did? How could she not know if Timmy left the MH?

Chelsea herself had said she was up late doing insurance paperwork and had just went to bed when the call about Haleigh came in at 4AM. At that time Joe was there and was woken up by the same phone call. He stayed there and went with Chelsea to the hospital, then to PCSO, then to hand flyer's with Misty. IMO, if Joe had taken the van Chelsea would be 100% sure of that. She has said she is not sure "WHO" took the van, only knows the van was moved/scratched. She was awake most of the night and would know what Joe and Timmy were doing. The answer to Joe taking the van lays with Chelsea and she could not give LE that answer and I question why.

I also question why she said her husband was in bed sleeping next to her. She was up most of the night to start with, then we hear that Timmy woke around 1AM. She would of know that as well especially if she was awake.

When Chelsea asked Misty who the "two" were that she was going to implicate she asked her if it was someone that she (Chelsea) cared about..To me that question was geared to-wards her thinking Misty was finally going to tell LE what part in this mess Timmy played in. Misty just said one person yes, the other not so much. Then Chelsea comes out and says, well if it's Ron I could give a dam about him.

Am I making any sense? Sorry for going on and on... :cow:

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Here you go--the incident was reported Feb 4th and citation served 11:00 am on the 10th.

View attachment 10904

OK, this is what I got out of reading the additional information from the report. It seems that LE has been out to Tommy's house regarding the dog 5 times in the past 3 months, they do not list all the dates/times they were out there. Only that they were out there 5 times in the past, the first time being On 2/4/2009.
What if they were on Tyler st. Feb 9th - 10th regarding the barking dog but did not give him the citation at that time, and then Haleigh's 911 call came in and they just headed over to Green Ln and came back the next morning and gave Tommy the citation? Just a thought..

Additional Information: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10904

On 2/4/2009 at 1:35 PM I met with Mrs.Potter concerning her neighbors dog barking non-stop for six hours 6:10AM till 12:10PM. Mrs.Potter wished to sign a citation on her neighbor for having a nuisance dog. I have made contact with the neighbors five times in the last three months concerning their dog's barking. I was able to make contact with the dogs owner Hank Croslin on 2/10/2009 at 11:00AM and served him with citation No:1334 for having a nuisance animal.
In view of the above listed information, this case is deemed exceptionally cleared. Further reports will rendered on a timely basis, if and when deemed necessary.

 

[krkrjx]

MADJGNLAW and DOOBIEDOO thanks for that info.

My concerns of the dog barking nonstop were whether it had happened the night of Feb 9-10 (because the citation was served on the 10th). The time/date of the dog incident has now been cleared up and I have no reason anymore to question whether Tommy's dog was barking at someone or something out of the norm that night.

ETA: I still question whether LE was at 116 Tyler at the time the 911 call was placed by Misty and, if so, why.

 

[dodie20]

IMO, the info Chelsea wanted out there was the same info Misty is spewing...Joe did it. Chelsea admitts that Joe was staying with her, why not tell LE Joe left the MH if he did? How could she not know if he did? How could she not know if Timmy left the MH?

Chelsea herself had said she was up late doing insurance paperwork and had just went to bed when the call about Haleigh came in at 4AM. At that time Joe was there and was woken up by the same phone call. He stayed there and went with Chelsea to the hospital, then to PCSO, then to hand flyer's with Misty. IMO, if Joe had taken the van Chelsea would be 100% sure of that. She has said she is not sure "WHO" took the van, only knows the van was moved/scratched. She was awake most of the night and would know what Joe and Timmy were doing. The answer to Joe taking the van lays with Chelsea and she could not give LE that answer and I question why.

I also question why she said her husband was in bed sleeping next to her. She was up most of the night to start with, then we hear that Timmy woke around 1AM. She would of know that as well especially if she was awake.

When Chelsea asked Misty who the "two" were that she was going to implicate she asked her if it was someone that she (Chelsea) cared about..To me that question was geared to-wards her thinking Misty was finally going to tell LE what part in this mess Timmy played in. Misty just said one person yes, the other not so much. Then Chelsea comes out and says, well if it's Ron I could give a dam about him.

Am I making any sense? Sorry for going on and on... :cow:

Chelsea's weird. She claims to have loved Haleigh, got that stupid tattoo on her foot, but when she found out she was missing, what does she do? takes Joe to visit Hank. couldn't that visit have waited? I hope their movements were closely watched, that day. She may not have really cared about Haleigh, so it was business as usual, but why put on this loving act? & if I were in her shoes, & even if cops told me to stay away, I would stay as close to the area as I could, & try to help, hunt, call Haleigh's name, something. I don't get this, unless Timmy insisted they get away.

 

[dodie20]

MADJGNLAW and DOOBIEDOO thanks for that info.

My concerns of the dog barking nonstop were whether it had happened the night of Feb 9-10 (because the citation was served on the 10th). The time/date of the dog incident has now been cleared up and I have no reason anymore to question whether Tommy's dog was barking at someone or something out of the norm that night.

ETA: I still question whether LE was at 116 Tyler at the time the 911 call was placed by Misty and, if so, why.

I read a police transcript, & unless there were written mistakes, yes, some cop was already at Tommy's address. Now the barking dog citation, may have been an unrelated incident, but then why were they there? They've never said. I'm assuming it was because of the dogs, because of the paperwork, but a neighbor may have called about something else suspicious, & LE, in an attempt to keep this case private, just let people assume it was the dogs. I always wondered how the rumors got started about Tommy walking & lurking around ,in the middle of the night got started. maybe this was the reason for the call? or maybe there was a loud argument in the house? or maybe somebody in that house, called & then hung up. But after watching these people for over a year, I don't think so...none of them would've even been tempted for a second, to call for help. & the only reason Misty & Ron called, was because they HAD to. so, I'm left thinking it was because of the dogs.

 

[dodie20]

I've also thought that Misty in a panic, ran up to her brother's, asked him about Haleigh, & made that call, & then chickened out...maybe because Tommy wouldn't let her call? But that would be a scenario, that would leave Misty, completely in the dark, & after all this time, it's doubtful that she was in the dark. Also, there's the possibility, that Ron wanted her to call 911 before he got home, & that 1st call, was her attempt to get the job done...but being at Tommy's, instead of home, would just cause problems, so she hung up. Actually, there are a lot of possibilities. But, because of the paperwork, I'm thinking it was because of the dogs.

 

[krkrjx]

I read a police transcript, & unless there were written mistakes, yes, some cop was already at Tommy's address. Now the barking dog citation, may have been an unrelated incident, but then why were they there? They've never said. I'm assuming it was because of the dogs, because of the paperwork, but a neighbor may have called about something else suspicious, & LE, in an attempt to keep this case private, just let people assume it was the dogs. I always wondered how the rumors got started about Tommy walking & lurking around ,in the middle of the night got started. maybe this was the reason for the call? or maybe there was a loud argument in the house? or maybe somebody in that house, called & then hung up. But after watching these people for over a year, I don't think so...none of them would've even been tempted for a second, to call for help. & the only reason Misty & Ron called, was because they HAD to. so, I'm left thinking it was because of the dogs.

Well, there was a call to LE at 2:13 AM (non-emergency call) and we do not know who made that call. It could have come from someone on Tyler Street but not necessarily from 116. A neighbor might have made that call for whatever reason. Maybe some kind of commotion, or to report a suspicious vehicle (at the dumpster? RR tracks?) or a suspicious person walking around? Or maybe that was to report a woman screaming. We just don't know from what address that 2:13 AM call originated but my bet is regardless of who called, that call is the one that led to LE being at 116 Tyler when the 911 came in from Misty at 3:27. The thing is, if the call was non-emergency at 2:13, LE might not have gotten there til just before the 911 call from Green Lane at 3:27.

It appears that LE was called to Tyler Street by someone in that area, and that call put LE at 116 Tyler early that morning for whatever reason. Non-emergency calls do not typically result in contact in the wee hours of the morning, unless it is for commotion/noise/disturbance that is still going on when LE goes to check it out--if all was quiet when LE arrived in response to the 2:13 AM call, LE would not have made contact at that hour, IMO.

 

[dodie20]

Well, there was a call to LE at 2:13 AM (non-emergency call) and we do not know who made that call. It could have come from someone on Tyler Street but not necessarily from 116. A neighbor might have made that call for whatever reason. Maybe some kind of commotion, or to report a suspicious vehicle (at the dumpster? RR tracks?) or a suspicious person walking around? Or maybe that was to report a woman screaming. We just don't know from what address that 2:13 AM call originated but my bet is regardless of who called, that call is the one that led to LE being at 116 Tyler when the 911 came in from Misty at 3:27. The thing is, if the call was non-emergency at 2:13, LE might not have gotten there til just before the 911 call from Green Lane at 3:27.

It appears that LE was called to Tyler Street by someone in that area, and that call put LE at 116 Tyler early that morning for whatever reason. Non-emergency calls do not typically result in contact in the wee hours of the morning, unless it is for commotion/noise/disturbance that is still going on when LE goes to check it out--if all was quiet when LE arrived in response to the 2:13 AM call, LE would not have made contact at that hour, IMO.

you made a good point. It was a non emergency call, so cops may have taken their sweet time in responding, so we don't know what time that call was put in, or why. But something was up at Tommy's.

 

[1Chump]

This is kind of OT. But I recently watched The Interrogation of Michael Crowe again. I had seen it before as I was very interested in the case because we had a house by where the Stephanie Crowe was murdered.

If you get a chance, watch that movie. Since I have been involved here, I watched it much differently. The movie does a great job of showing how they locked in her brother as the prime suspect immediately without any proof then how they used LVA, lies and cohersion to get him to kind of confess.

Neighbors immediately told LE about this transcient who had in the neighborhood that night. But they had locked into the brother then his friends because they fight LE's theory. While the murdering transcient was immediately deemed credible and treated much better than the innocent parents, brother and sister.

It just really gave me a better understanding of a murder investigation and how even if Misty told the truth, she would not be believed if they had a theory.

 

[krkrjx]

This is kind of OT. But I recently watched The Interrogation of Michael Crowe again. I had seen it before as I was very interested in the case because we had a house by where the Stephanie Crowe was murdered.

If you get a chance, watch that movie. Since I have been involved here, I watched it much differently. The movie does a great job of showing how they locked in her brother as the prime suspect immediately without any proof then how they used LVA, lies and cohersion to get him to kind of confess.

Neighbors immediately told LE about this transcient who had in the neighborhood that night. But they had locked into the brother then his friends because they fight LE's theory. While the murdering transcient was immediately deemed credible and treated much better than the innocent parents, brother and sister.

It just really gave me a better understanding of a murder investigation and how even if Misty told the truth, she would not be believed if they had a theory.

I am familiar with the Michael Crowe story; he was a teen who was accused of murdering his younger sister in the family home. The police interrogation effectively convinced this teenager that he had committed the crime, even though he could not remember doing so.

I do not believe Misty was ever interrogated in this manner by LE. In her early interviews, she seemed free to talk to LE if she wanted to but at one point when LE apparently tried to used some different tactics with Misty, she got up and left the interview.

Misty's early accounts were all that she was sleeping, woke up and Haleigh was gone, etc. While LE did not believe her, they were never successful in getting Misty to admit to anything. Even when LE suspected Misty might have not been home that night, she denied it and never veered from it.

So now Misty is in a quandary because even if she told the truth verbatim, she has no corroboration. Evidence that might have been obtainable back in February 2009 might not be available anymore.

IMO, had Misty been forthcoming in the beginning she might have come out of all this OK. Now, however, even if she wanted to be fully honest and tell all, how can she? Even saying, "I was not there" may not be an option anymore since she might have no way to prove it now, though she might have been able to back then.

Misty went from saying she woke up to find Haleigh gone, "and that's all I know" to saying she heard Haleigh being attacked and saw Joe put her in a black bag. The only way I might consider this to have any similarity to the Crowe interrogation would be if it were to come out that LE planted this scenario in Misty's head and then over and over pounded it home, until Misty relented and went along with it (like Crowe had).

All JMO.

BUT...it really is frightening to know about some LE tactics, such as those that were used on Michael Crowe. What a horrific display on the part of LE that case was! A similar tactic was used on Connecticut teen Peter Reilly, falsely accused by LE of murdering his mother. At some point after hours of interrogation Reilly confessed to the crime, even though he was totally innocent.

It is true, though, that often LE gets an idea in their head of who they think did something and they refuse to budge from it, even in the face of new information that points elsewhere. I think it is possible LE may have decided the Croslins are likely suspects; perhaps the Cummings even counted on that happening.

 

[dodie20]

This is kind of OT. But I recently watched The Interrogation of Michael Crowe again. I had seen it before as I was very interested in the case because we had a house by where the Stephanie Crowe was murdered.

If you get a chance, watch that movie. Since I have been involved here, I watched it much differently. The movie does a great job of showing how they locked in her brother as the prime suspect immediately without any proof then how they used LVA, lies and cohersion to get him to kind of confess.

Neighbors immediately told LE about this transcient who had in the neighborhood that night. But they had locked into the brother then his friends because they fight LE's theory. While the murdering transcient was immediately deemed credible and treated much better than the innocent parents, brother and sister.

It just really gave me a better understanding of a murder investigation and how even if Misty told the truth, she would not be believed if they had a theory.

I do think this LE zeroed in on Misty & her family, too much, too soon. Now, they may be right, but the only other scenario that I've seen them investigate, is the stranger sexual predator theory. Also, I don't know why, but LE seemed very confident that Haleigh would be coming home. I guess they were looking at a possible domestic issue, involving Crystal.l don't remember exactly what was said, but I do remember TN reportedly saying that something important to Haleigh was missing. Was this a rumor or did TN really say that? If she did, was it ever revealed what was missing? There was speculation that it was her breathing machine, & if it was, I can see how LE would interpret that as a 'friendly' kidnapping. In other words, they might have thought someone was going to be taking care of medical needs. (But there has also been speculation that the nebulizer could be used for drug inhaling. Now, THAT, I can believe about this bunch. & speaking of...I've heard that an alternative to an actual crack pipe, involves burning the copper out of scouring pads. So that might explain some of Tommy's weird thefts). But if TN did say that, that statement alone, might have stalled this investigation for weeks. go figure.

 

[lonetraveler]

I have a quick question about something that makes we wonder. According to Cobra himself (not just RC)--he says that Tim got up around 1:00 that morning and the van and JO were missing. If I had borrowed a vehicle from my brother and I woke up in the middle of the night and found it gone, I would sure as heck be calling around to make sure my house guest had that van or that my brother, himself, came and got it. So theoretically there should be some phone activity from Tim's, Chelsea's or their land line phone around that time of night. And someone answered that call with an explanation or there would have been a call to LE about a stolen van.

My question is: Did Tim tell Chelsea any of this, but didn't want to put himself in the middle of the mess so refused to tell LE? It certainly seemed like Chelsea wanted the info out there, but could only say the part she actually witnessed: the keys being moved and the van being parked differently. She totally omitted the part about Tim waking up and finding the van gone. Granted, it was heresay from her husband, but did he tell LE? If so, then they KNEW that Joe or Tommy had that van that night and they KNEW Misty stated early on a comment about her blanket in the "van they took". Why on earth wasn't Joe detained before he left the state? I think I've lost all confidence in this case ever being solved. Sigh

I'm sorry but the only way I can reason that Timmy noticed the van gone and didn't feel the need to tell Chelsea is if he, Timmy took it himself or he knew already that Chelsea had taken it somewhere! There is lot of lying going on here, JMO.

 

[dodie20]

I'm sorry but the only way I can reason that Timmy noticed the van gone and didn't feel the need to tell Chelsea is if he, Timmy took it himself or he knew already that Chelsea had taken it somewhere! There is lot of lying going on here, JMO.

in regards to your last sentence...you got that right!!!

 

[txsvicki]

I've convinced myself that the pitbull heard something and was throwing a hissy fit that night and the cops were called yet again. If it was, it might prove that Tommy or Lindsay weren't paying attention or had a reason the dog wasn't in the house. Regardless, the dog should have been barking when the cops were at Tyler when the call came in about Haleigh and they had already been called about the dog 3 times in that past month. Lindsay really hates that dog probably about as much as the neighbor hated living next door to them. The neighbor was probably very alert to what was going on at their trailer that night if she been so bothered by the dog the past month. I'm hoping that she added a lot to the investigation about that night.

 

[twall]

Chelsea's weird. She claims to have loved Haleigh, got that stupid tattoo on her foot, but when she found out she was missing, what does she do? takes Joe to visit Hank. couldn't that visit have waited? I hope their movements were closely watched, that day. She may not have really cared about Haleigh, so it was business as usual, but why put on this loving act? & if I were in her shoes, & even if cops told me to stay away, I would stay as close to the area as I could, & try to help, hunt, call Haleigh's name, something. I don't get this, unless Timmy insisted they get away.

Chelsea and Joe went to the hospital to get Lisa. Misty needed her consent to be interrogated since she was a minor at the time.
Joe went with Chelsea to say goodbye to Hank since he was leaving FL that day.

 

[Whisperer]

concerning the neighbors saying tommy was walking around the streets at different times of the night, it was probably true and I would believe it was due to misty. He may have stayed with her at night after Lindsy went to sleep. I will never believe misty sat home alone with those kids while ron worked....just not in her blood.

 

[SoSueMe]

I have a quick question about something that makes we wonder. According to Cobra himself (not just RC)--he says that Tim got up around 1:00 that morning and the van and JO were missing. If I had borrowed a vehicle from my brother and I woke up in the middle of the night and found it gone, I would sure as heck be calling around to make sure my house guest had that van or that my brother, himself, came and got it. So theoretically there should be some phone activity from Tim's, Chelsea's or their land line phone around that time of night. And someone answered that call with an explanation or there would have been a call to LE about a stolen van.

My question is: Did Tim tell Chelsea any of this, but didn't want to put himself in the middle of the mess so refused to tell LE? It certainly seemed like Chelsea wanted the info out there, but could only say the part she actually witnessed: the keys being moved and the van being parked differently. She totally omitted the part about Tim waking up and finding the van gone. Granted, it was heresay from her husband, but did he tell LE? If so, then they KNEW that Joe or Tommy had that van that night and they KNEW Misty stated early on a comment about her blanket in the "van they took". Why on earth wasn't Joe detained before he left the state? I think I've lost all confidence in this case ever being solved. Sigh

I don't know where I was when this information came out about Timmy being up at 1:00 a.m., but I've been seeing it for a while and just skimming over it. Now I have to ask where did it come from and what did Timmy say? He said the van and Joe were gone?

 

[doobiedoo52]

I don't know where I was when this information came out about Timmy being up at 1:00 a.m., but I've been seeing it for a while and just skimming over it. Now I have to ask where did it come from and what did Timmy say? He said the van and Joe were gone?

It's in the Cobra tapes-RC starts telling the story about Timmy finding the van gone and Cobra also states the same--I assume he had already talked to Timmy at that time.

 

[Emeralgem]

I don't know where I was when this information came out about Timmy being up at 1:00 a.m., but I've been seeing it for a while and just skimming over it. Now I have to ask where did it come from and what did Timmy say? He said the van and Joe were gone?

I believe I may have been sleeping also when this was first revealed, but I do recall Misty saying her brother, Timmy, was the one who noticed Jo was not on his bed, but Timmy thought he was in the back bedroom talking on the phone..
BUt the next morning he noticed Jo had slept with his clothes on, and the keys were in a differnt place and the van had been moved from where it was originally parked..JMHO