George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread #10 Mon. July 8

[NancyGracesBangs]

Thanks to all who responded; I very much appreciate the opinions as I do like to hear all sides, etc.

This is the first trial that I can recall in quite some time that there is such a difference of opinion and all of us posting what we believe we feel very passionate about. I don't expect anyone to be swayed from their opinion in this particular case either.

 

[Lovelymountains]

IN YOUR OPINION...

There is no clearly. If there was we most likely would not be here. There is just as much evidence that he could have stopped at that point.. OMO

IMO not if GZ's voice was heard by RJ speaking to TM in back of the townhouse where TM was staying, to which she testified. IMO.

 

[cityslick]

BUT.... He doesn't deny killing Trayvon... he has to prove that it was self defense, just like JA had to (failed to), right? JA had to prove self defense if she were to get acquitted, because there was no doubt she killed Travis, correct? Is the law different in Florida? It might be, I'm curious.

Was it ever proven black males were doing the break ins? As in caught the perps? Or did he just assume it was black males? I can't recall.

I don't think he has to prove self defense, that's why he didn't invoke the SYG defense. The burden is still on the prosecution.

It is a fact that all the robberies in the neighborhood were black males.

 

[daisy7]

IIRC, both sides agreed that GZ said f-ing punks, right?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

TM's friend, Rachel, also said that immediately after TM told her TM was in the back yard of the townhouse where he was staying, that she heard TM ask someone, presumably GZ, why he was following him and she heard another person, again presumably GZ since we know of no one else in the area, ask TM what he was doing there. So, IMO, that also puts GZ in back of TM's father's girlfriend's townhouse. So we are left with the question of why and how did they end up 70 yards away. IMO GZ forced TM, possibly at gunpoint, to accompany him back in the direction of his vehicle intending to hold him until LE arrived, and at the point of TM's death, he attempted to escape and was shot. Since, if one believes one thing that RJ said, one probably would believe another, i.e. TM arrived in back of the townhouse where he was staying as did GZ, and she heard GZ's voice in back of the house where TM was staying. IMO.

That is a lot of supposition.. She did not say it was immediately. That is not what I heard.. If you can prove that to me, Then please do so with a link. I don't believe the whole testimony as it changed over time, But I do believe that he was back at his house. Im going back over her testimony.. To make sure before I add to this..

OMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Plausible deniability.

IMO, the whole interaction with the NEN dispatcher was setting up TM to sound suspicious and GZ to sound compliant.

Do you think he planned to execute TM once he saw him?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Strange when I took martial arts classes, people made a point not to get a fight. In one book I read the author said the minute you use karate it becomes a matter of life or death. Some one told me that when streetfighters make mistakes they wind up in the hospital, so they tend to be very good. I got the same message over and over a hundred times. Go why wasn't TM told it's not a good idea to start street fights.
Everyone on the road is carrying. Not necessarily a gun or rifle, but definitely a two ton weapon.

Good question. Seems to have been a pattern with him and evidently there was no meaningful intervention to get him to stop imo. I don't understand the priorities of the Martin family, I think they failed TM. imo

 

[NancyGracesBangs]

I don't think he has to prove self defense, that's why he didn't invoke the SYG defense. The burden is still on the prosecution.

It is a fact that all the robberies in the neighborhood were black males.

Yeah, I think (if not mistaken) they have to prove 2nd degree - just like re: Arias, they had to prove 1st degree.

The defense is their defense but the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what they are charging the person with.

IMO

(adding on to the question brought up)

 

[Just K]

IMO, it is interesting that the defense is trying to portray GZ in a certain light but it is MPO that manipulative people often present one way in public and another way when they either don't know or forget that someone else might hear them.

We know that GZ has misrepresented his educational experience, has mislead the court as to his financial need, has changed and/or embellished his story as to the chain of events as to the interaction between GZ and TM. Notably, his stories, after the shooting, do not correspond to his NEN call to SPD. Serrino even noticed enough to question GZ about those differences.

The point here is that the "soft spoken" GZ, as he is being portrayed now (as opposed to the several incidences where he was involved with documented violent acts) is IMO, definitely capable of misleading/manipulating friends, LE, employers and family. Just like everyone thought Ted Bundy was a nice, quiet and soft spoken young man when in fact he was also the exact opposite in different settings.

IMO, sociopaths use their ability to convince others that they are calm, respectable, upstanding citizens. It is necessary for them to do this in order to get away for as long as possible with their manipulation of others and further bad deeds. ALL IMO, of course.

 

[TexMex]

Dan Abrams analysis

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-convicted-murder-manslaughter/t/story?id=19598422

 

[cinsbythesea]

I like John Donnelly - he seems to be an honest, sincere, caring man. He certainly would be a good friend to have! Very generous!

 

[DIBSY]

she also likes "rightchange"/I wonder if that is the political organization George was whooping and hollering about...

Yes I think so, since it is associated with Fox News and therefore Sean Hannity....where we saw GZ deny any knowledge of SYG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RightChange.com

This all speaks toward a certain mind set. IMO

 

[Just K]

I am sure about 20 of you have said/asked this already, I am trying to speed read to get caught up here....

Why did this old couple take GZ out and buy him suits?
Did he not have a good chunk of change banked from his donation website?
I would think he could afford to do this himself.

Just wondering, if DT or PT asked why I missed it.

Not to mention the fact that GZ had his own father to teach him to tie a tie and or to buy him suits. IMO, this is all more manipulation of this seemingly nice old couple. IMO.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Dan Abrams analysis

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-convicted-murder-manslaughter/t/story?id=19598422

This link was posted on a local (San Francisco area) radio personality's Facebook - the postings were almost unanimous that if Zimmerman walks "all hell will break loose." It was very disheartening to read.

 

[claudicici]

Do you think he planned to execute TM once he saw him?

I didn't think so at the beginning of the trial but after all these witnesses today and knowing who his friends are I'm leaning towards it....and after hearing the 911 call so many times today and everything in it sounds like a set up for a planned execution IMO

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

I am sure about 20 of you have said/asked this already, I am trying to speed read to get caught up here....

Why did this old couple take GZ out and buy him suits?
Did he not have a good chunk of change banked from his donation website?
I would think he could afford to do this himself.

Just wondering, if DT or PT asked why I missed it.

JMO but I believe that GZ is paying attys, depositon costs, his experts and has limited funds to draw fund . If I remember the book deals $ is in an acct for after this trial...And this is MOO, that his living and hiding over the past year has cost him money, no employmnt that I know of... excuse any typos not a great spell checker

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I didn't think so at the beginning of the trial but after all these witnesses today and knowing who his friends are I'm leaning towards it....and after hearing the 911 call so many times today and everything in it sounds like a set up for a planned execution IMO

People saying it was GZ screaming for help leads you to think this was a planned execution? I guess I'm not following. What on Earth makes you think GZ just decided to murder someone for no reason? imo

 

[DIBSY]

I cannot believe Anyone, friend of Zimmerman or no, thinks it's normal / regular to use that sort of filth when phoning LE either on NEN or 911. It shows gross disrespect and contempt for not only the Law aka authority but for those GZ habitually reports. IMO

 

[Just K]

IMO, GZ's call to the NEN was to portray a situation where he could come off as the neighborhood hero by hunting down and detaining the bad guy. IMO, GZ thought all he needed to keep TM there until the police arrived was his fully loaded (with hollow points) 9mm Kel-Tec. IMO, he shot TM when it looked like he, himself, would be responsible for letting another one of these f#$%ing punks or a##holes get away. That did not fit with GZ's script. it is also IMO that GZ never intended to go to Target but instead got a call or flagged down from/by FT, who lived next to the cut through. IMO, FT, said something to GZ like "one of those @##holes is in my yard."

JMO, but I believe everytime GZ left his home with his gun loaded and carried the way it was that night, he was on alert and in hunting mode. ALL of the above is My Opinion.

 

[ncgramma]

So...I'm interested in what you think the evidence might have shown had these things been accomplished? It is my understanding that there were no other potential shooters - so they didn't need to prove (via fingerprints, DNA, etc.) who was holding the gun, etc. etc. I realize that they have tried to show that the LACK of TM's DNA showed he didn't reach for the gun but is down to GZ's word as there is no video.

Aw heck, the lack of GM's DNA on some of the evidence would start to make you wonder if HE was there too! IMO