George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[Mahouston69]

Love it! Prosecution now flipping the people - what if TM was driving around and saw GZ, got out of his car and followed him and now GZ was dead - what would you do?

IMO

100%. The only closing sentence he needed.

 

[logicalgirl]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Manslaughter is a game changer - all the prosecution has to prove is that GZ set an event in motion and then used unreasonable force.

GZ is done - guilty of manslaughter.

 

[AngelWings444]

Because his age is IRRELEVANT.

HE was not a child he was nearly a man by 11 months. he was 6 ft in sneakers.

HE was not a boy.

14-15-16-17-commit violent crimes everyday.. Their age does not usually matter much when they are charged.

But, Trayvon was NOT committing a crime. He was walking home from the store. He is a boy, certainly not a girl. :facepalm: He was barely 17 (by 3 weeks) and 5'11". Those are the facts. If this was my child, I would refer to him as a child, kid, boy...there is nothing wrong with it. Age is relevant in that Trayvon was a kid who was simply walking home from the store. IMO

 

[gxm]

IMO, it's a bad move for the state to stress that "f***ing punks" shows ill will and malice when TM used racial epithets against GZ. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I don't believe MOM just stood up and made an objection??? The guy has got to be very worried.

IMO

He didn't make an objection, he requested to go to the bench.

Bill S on WFTV said it was probably because Guy was going over his allotted time. When Guy got back to talking, he rushed through the end of his closing, so I'm guessing Bill S was correct.

 

[cityslick]

I missed it. Did the Defense or has the defense claimed he made it home?
They said, he could have....
He should have......
If he was behaving like a good......(self filter)
And never would have been harmed.

Sigh.

Defense didn't claim it, RJ did. He was behind his dad's house.

 

[iluvmua]

It doesn't matter what TM looked like. He actually legally was a child. A minor child. That is how anyone under 18 is LEGALLY described. You know, the FACTS. Not intuition or emotion. TM was a kid. This is a FACT and the LAW.

And we have minor children commit rape, robbery, murder etc. everyday in this country.

JMO

 

[Chris_Texas]

The defense has the obligation to provide a prima facia case in support of self defense. They do not have to prove that it was self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense met their burden. The prosecution still has to prove that it was not self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact that in a self defense case the defense has some burden of proof and must put forth an affirmative defense in no way diminishes the prosecutions burden of proof.

The defense has said it was self defense. They have provided clear third party evidence and testimony of that. Not the least of which was a steady stream of prosecution witnesses such as the initial investigating Law Enforcement. A reasonable case for self defense has been made.

Whereas the prosecutions case seems to involve saying "Nuh uh!" And "Wannabe Cop!" A lot, but without showing any clear timeline or sequence of events or even putting forth a full theory of the crime.

I don't like this. I don't like Zimmerman. I don't like that he killed a teen because he made bad assumptions. But those are matters for a civil court examine a question of wrongful death. Here in this criminal court the Prosecution has not established their criminal case beyond a reasonable or even mildly half assed doubt to my eyes. They have pretty much done the defenses work for them.

Excellent post, I wish I wrote as well as you. My objection here is to those who claim that self defense is not affirmative, and must simply be assumed once one mutters these magical words.

The defense has presented their claim and some evidence to support it. The prosecution has poked some holes in their story. The kid is dead, and it will be up to the jury to decide if they believe Zimmerman's version of events. If they don't, if they do not believe that Zimmerman is telling them the truth or that his claim does not match the evidence, they should find him guilty.

 

[Karmady]

It doesn't matter what TM looked like. He actually legally was a child. A minor child. That is how anyone under 18 is LEGALLY described. You know, the FACTS. Not intuition or emotion. TM was a kid. This is a FACT and the LAW.

This special prosecutor does not agree. I've mentioned a couple of times that she's tried a 12 year old as an adult. In a court of law.

jmo

 

[Mony Mony]

I know this is beside the point, but IMO boys and men don't start to look like adults until they are about 21-22. At 16, 17 they still look like boys. They still look lanky and their necks look skinny.

Have you been to a local high school lately? Some of those boys have full beards!

 

[logicalgirl]

It doesn't matter what TM looked like. He actually legally was a child. A minor child. That is how anyone under 18 is LEGALLY described. You know, the FACTS. Not intuition or emotion. TM was a kid. This is a FACT and the LAW.

I just listened to Richard Hornsby explain the definition of Manslaughter. He believes this jury will convict GZ of manslaughter.

 

[gxm]

But, Trayvon was NOT committing a crime. He was walking home from the store. He is a boy, certainly not a girl. :facepalm: He was barely 17 (by 3 weeks) and 5'11". Those are the facts. If this was my child, I would refer to him as a child, kid, boy...there is nothing wrong with it. Age is relevant in that Trayvon was a kid who was simply walking home from the store. IMO

TM was not shot when he was "walking home from the store." He was shot while he was beating up GZ. The state has already conceded that TM was on top of GZ when he was shot. That's not walking home. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[MeeBee]

And we have minor children commit rape, robbery, murder etc. everyday in this country.

JMO

That is totally beside the point IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But, Trayvon was NOT committing a crime. He was walking home from the store. He is a boy, certainly not a girl. :facepalm: He was barely 17 (by 3 weeks) and 5'11". Those are the facts. If this was my child, I would refer to him as a child, kid, boy...there is nothing wrong with it. Age is relevant in that Trayvon was a kid who was simply walking home from the store. IMO

What does that have to do with anything?

It does not matter at all. Whether TM was 14 or 239.

It does not matter. He beat a man and then the man defended his person.

 

[Karmady]

Excellent post, I wish I wrote as well as you. My objection here is to those who claim that self defense is not affirmative, and must simply be assumed once one mutters these magical words.

The defense has presented their claim and some evidence to support it. The prosecution has poked some holes in their story. The kid is dead, and it will be up to the jury to decide if they believe Zimmerman's version of events. If they don't, if they do not believe that Zimmerman is telling them the truth or that his claim does not match the evidence, they should find him guilty.

The part that's missing is that the State has to prove all of the elements of the crime BEFORE you even get to self-defense.

jmo

 

[lisasalinger]

WFTV reporting that one juror had tears. :cry: Not at all unusual before someone jumps on this...

It's so difficult to read jurors. I would be more surprised if none of them cried at all. Regardless if you want to convict or not, there will likely be many tears shed by those jurors for everybody involved, as there should be.

IMO

 

[katiewonders]

lol, good morning Mrs. Cochran

I don't have much good to say about that dream team, but I admit Johnny did his job well - introducing the race card, tainting the police handling of the evidence, staging OJ's house to sway jurors, infuriating prosecutor Darden in sidebars, etc. I am sorry to say I don't think Johnny had to work that hard in that case.

 

[Overuled]

But, Trayvon was NOT committing a crime. He was walking home from the store. He is a boy, certainly not a girl. :facepalm: He was barely 17 (by 3 weeks) and 5'11". Those are the facts. If this was my child, I would refer to him as a child, kid, boy...there is nothing wrong with it. Age is relevant in that Trayvon was a kid who was simply walking home from the store. IMO

He committed a crime when he hit gz in the nose and knocked him to the ground. Clearly assault. moo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Excellent post, I wish I wrote as well as you. My objection here is to those who claim that self defense is not affirmative, and must simply be assumed once one mutters these magical words.

The defense has presented their claim and some evidence to support it. The prosecution has poked some holes in their story. The kid is dead, and it will be up to the jury to decide if they believe Zimmerman's version of events. If they don't, if they do not believe that Zimmerman is telling them the truth or that his claim does not match the evidence, they should find him guilty.

Not even close. When the state charges it is up to the state to prove the charges.. Everyone gets to have a defense but they do not have to prove ANYTHING.

 

[BiggNewt]

He didn't make an objection, he requested to go to the bench.

Bill S on WFTV said it was probably because Guy was going over his allotted time. When Guy got back to talking, he rushed through the end of his closing, so I'm guessing Bill S was correct.

I don't think this is true. He misrepresented the law of reasonable doubt, which is why Judge Nelson made her next comment.