George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[Zuri]

You are right about this. The shirt and hoodie too could act as a buffer zone between the skin and outside and soak up some blood too, so this complicates things a lot as far as being able to tell where TM was when he was shot.

The ME report said the range was intermediate (I guess referring to how far away the gun was). How far away is a gun that leaves 2x2 stippling and is considered intermediate? I know what point blank means. I just don't know anything about further away. TIA :seeya:

 

[polleypockets]

There were several 911 callers that called before or after the shot was fired, and reported what they saw. Some even went on to various news shows and recounted their version of events. None stated they saw Zimmerman moving bodies, rearranging anything, or doing anything but pacing around.

again not snark i am trying to understand your POV, I never said he moved the body, i said it doesn't make sense if TM was on top and was shot he would either fall back or GZ would have to roll the body off in order to get up, imo i don't understand how his body was lying face down after the struggle GZ describes??

 

[popsicle]

Just thoughts/questions:

1. Were there any pictures in evidence of blood on the sidewalk from GZ head injuries?

2. Did GZ comment as to why he didn't just shoot TM in the leg or somewhere other than the chest? As a juror would that matter to you? Would you see the shot to the chest directly as reaction, or intention?

I honestly think that would be a problem. If you are in fear for your life why would you only shoot someone in the leg?

 

[m00c0w]

OK...let's go with that.

Where are the injuries to Trayvon's hands, and where is George's blood on Trayvon's hands, body...whatever.

One tiny scratch on one finger on his left hand when he is right handed...and no blood...does not equate to what George says happened, and how he looked.

So the broken nose and contusions to the head just magically appeared?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This whole case makes me feel ill. I just can't let go of the fact the bullet had to hit tm in the chest rather than a leg, arm or just someplace else.

It is a tough one. But the reason it hit him square in the chest is because it holds up to GZ story. That he was underneath him. Where else was he going to shoot. HE only had enough leverage to grab the gun and shoot.

 

[raine1212]

Remember everyone has the right to voice their opinion.

Race is a factor in this trial.. please do not make it one here.

NO BASHING OF FELLOW POSTERS

NO NAME CALLING

NO RACIST REMARKS

IF YOU SEE A POST PLEASE ALERT DO NOT RESPOND TO THE POST

PLEASE DISCUSS LIKE ADULTS...WE UNDERSTAND THAT RACIAL ISSUES WILL BE BROUGHT UP DURING THE TRIAL AND CAN BE DISCUSSED HERE WITHOUT MAKING WEBSLEUTHS A RACIAL FORUM!
__________________

 

[iluvmua]

This whole case makes me feel ill. I just can't let go of the fact the bullet had to hit tm in the chest rather than a leg, arm or just someplace else.

Because George was afraid for his life and that is why he shot him where he did.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

again not snark i am trying to understand your POV, I never said he moved the body, i said it doesn't make sense if TM was on top and was shot he would either fall back or GZ would have to roll the body off in order to get up, imo i don't understand how his body was lying face down after the struggle GZ describes??

Have someone bigger than you lay on you and just be limp and not movable.. See how you get out...

 

[polleypockets]

then why didn't George use his MMA style on Trayvon?

He clearly was not looking for a confrontation that night. (Zimmerman)

Why use your gun when you can use MMA style as well?

um idk?? thats not my quote, i never said that -

 

[m00c0w]

again not snark i am trying to understand your POV, I never said he moved the body, i said it doesn't make sense if TM was on top and was shot he would either fall back or GZ would have to roll the body off in order to get up, imo i don't understand how his body was lying face down after the struggle GZ describes??

It is likely he collapsed onto Zimmerman, and Zimmerman used the body (160+ pounds of dead weight) to push out from under it. I feel that it would be difficult to completely roll over a body that's straddling you and has you pinned under it.

 

[iluvmua]

um idk?? thats not my quote, i never said that -

quotes are getting mixed up.

 

[popsicle]

The ME report said the range was intermediate (I guess referring to how far away the gun was). How far away is a gun that leaves 2x2 stippling and is considered intermediate? I know what point blank means. I just don't know anything about further away. TIA :seeya:

6-12 inches imo

 

[corundogs]

So everything is GZ's fault and TM should not be held accountable for for breaking someone's nose and hitting their head against the sidewalk?

My point is your stance is that GZ was in self defense mode. So that excuses him from the murder.

What I think is that TM was actually the one in self defense mode...so no, him punching GZ (if it happened...and I am not conceding it did actually) does not then excuse GZ from killing him.

Because TM was the one defending himself.

 

[missmazzy]

Here is my opinion:

I think Trayvon did jump George and was beating him and George went for his gun and fired.

But for me, the question is why? Why did Trayvon run? Why did he attack? Why was he angry? Why did Zimmerman suspect him? Was Trayvon really acting suspicious, or did George just perceive him that way? Would the confrontation have happened if George hadn't initially followed Trayvon or stayed in his car? It's the circumstances around the attack. George's story holds water. I don't think he set out to kill Trayvon. But Trayvon was in his sights. And is it possible he's leaving out certain details to make himself sound totally innocent as opposed to mildly cuplable? Should he have shot to kill?

So far, I'm leaning toward either acquittal or manslaughter. I need to hear and see more. And that's scary because I think this is all I'll get. I hope George testifies.

That's what I meant when I said both men acted like jerks that night. GZ for being Mr. Big, persuing an intruder, and TM, who probably copped an attitude when confronted. I'm not making light of this tragedy, but it's a testosterone thing.

 

[Nymeria]

Trayvon was not a skinny kid.

You don't think 5'11 and 158 lbs is skinny??
To me that is a string bean!

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Because George was afraid for his life and that is why he shot him where he did.

He really does not sound to be scared on the phone calls.

 

[rob]

For that matter, how did Martin supposedly grip a wet, bald head without getting anything under his nails, or supposedly hit a man hard enough to allegedly break his nose without getting any blood, bruising, or trauma on his hands? And why is there no blood on the concrete surrounding the area? You don't bash someone bloody on concrete and not leave a trace. And how did a skinny kid beat up a muscular guy who had been trained in MMA? He was obviously fit in the police photos (and his clothes are surprisingly clean after rolling around in a struggle for his life. IJS.). I really can't help but think that Zimmerman's version of this sort of stinks to high heaven.

I thought at the time of the incident, George looked like a 150 lb wimp, not the beefed up guy he is now, nor the same that he was in thphotos shown in the media at the time it happened.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

How do you know that GZ didn't start the fight and TM was within his rights to ward off his attacker? Everyone assumes that TM started the fight first and this is what we don't know.

Of course we know TM started the fight, he was not in GZ's sight and GZ was walking back to his vehicle. TM was clearly the aggressor, according to all the evidence. Why would GZ even bother starting a fight after he got off the phone with LE? He knew cops were on the way. The problem is, people can't accept that TM was in the wrong so all evidence is disregarded.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

I hope she's a witness and they rip apart her testimony. I've already questioned her story when this forum was opened back in the initial months of the case. Her story is not consistent...

Neither is Zimmerman's, for that matter. He's told inconsistency after inconsistency - which is probably why they're not putting him on the stand.

 

[m00c0w]

My point is your stance is that GZ was in self defense mode. So that excuses him from the murder.

What I think is that TM was actually the one in self defense mode...so no, him punching GZ (if it happened...and I am not conceding it did actually) does not then excuse GZ from killing him.

Because TM was the one defending himself.

TM was defending himself from what?