George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[AngelWings444]

Is that fact or his opinion because I have not seen a ruling on that yet..

IMO all it proves is that he always did the right thing.. That there was an anomaly that night and it was not him.

FACT - Judge ruled on it before court this morning. I think they will hurt GZ. JMO

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...n-emergency-calls-to-dispatchers-judge-rules/

 

[raine1212]

Remember everyone has the right to voice their opinion.

Race is a factor in this trial.. please do not make it one here.



NO BASHING OF FELLOW POSTERS

NO NAME CALLING

NO RACIST REMARKS

IF YOU SEE A POST PLEASE ALERT DO NOT RESPOND TO THE POST

PLEASE DISCUSS LIKE ADULTS...WE UNDERSTAND THAT RACIAL ISSUES WILL BE BROUGHT UP DURING THE TRIAL AND CAN BE DISCUSSED HERE WITHOUT MAKING WEBSLEUTHS A RACIAL FORUM!

 

[Bravo]

All I can say at this point is had GZ stayed in his vehicle and waited for LE to arrive and do "their" job as instructed. We wouldn't even be here. So very sad.

 

[AngelWings444]

Please cite your sources.

The story from the written report I linked earlier is that he tried to move away from the sidewalk before he had to use the gun.

This is from what I remember and I put JMO. I also looked at the crime scene photos and noticed there was no concrete near Trayvon's body.

<modsnip> I'm not trying to argue with you, just saying what I recall. :seeya:

 

[m00c0w]

Whether GZ was within his rights to follow a kid he thought was suspicious seemingly appears moot. The question for me is, why did GZ have to have a gun at the ready. Why didn't he just stay back and let TM continue on his way home. So what if TM stopped on the common area grass. GZ did his NW thing by notifying the police. Confrontation was unnecessary. A 17 year old was shot and killed. None of this needed to happen.

Personally, I cannot decide if GZ is innocent or guilty as it applies to FL law. I am waiting for all the evidence to come in and have both sides present their case. As a mother, and if TM was my child, I would be going for the jugular. Fortunately, I am not in his parent's shoes.

He had a gun ready because he, like most concealed carry permit holders, carried one with him when he went out. There is nothing wrong with this.

What says he didn't stay at what he thought was a distance, and it turns out Martin was hiding or much closer than he thought?

 

[corundogs]

Except Zimmerman was well within his rights to figure out where the dude that just ran away from him went, as that's apparently what he felt the dispatcher was asking of him. There is nothing to say he explicitly followed Martin, and I would not consider watching from a distance and trying to see where the guy went "following".

It is suggested repeatedly, however, that Martin was just on his way back home. How, then, did the two meet if Martin had a head start that would have put him home twice? Even if Zimmerman was trying to follow him, he still did not know where Martin was for at least two minutes after he ran. This points to some obvious questions about why Martin was still out and about and in the vicinity of Zimmerman when he had so much time to get home or even out of the general area if he was so scared of Zimmerman.

JMO

And as I pointed out...when you are being followed, it's common sense - and LE recommendation - that you NOT GO HOME!!! However, hiding from said person would be instinct, IMO. Where was TM supposed to go? The neighborhood was just that...a neighborhood. He didn't know how far this person was going to go...how far would he follow him.

And, IMO, the state of mind TM is as important as GZ's state of mind. We can't know it for sure, but I truly believe most young black men are on edge about being followed.

Whether that person be law enforcement or not.

But it seems like some are only taking into account what GZ was thinking about TM.

What about what TM was thinking about GZ? Why does that not matter to you?

 

[Karmady]

Whether GZ was within his rights to follow a kid he thought was suspicious seemingly appears moot. The question for me is, why did GZ have to have a gun at the ready. Why didn't he just stay back and let TM continue on his way home. So what if TM stopped on the common area grass. GZ did his NW thing by notifying the police. Confrontation was unnecessary. A 17 year old was shot and killed. None of this needed to happen.

Personally, I cannot decide if GZ is innocent or guilty as it applies to FL law. I am waiting for all the evidence to come in and have both sides present their case. As a mother, and if TM was my child, I would be going for the jugular. Fortunately, I am not in his parent's shoes.

As I understand it, George had a concealed carry permit and just was carrying. Not for any specific purpose. Also, one of the investigators, Gilbreath, has testified that the State has no evidence of who confronted whom. Also, George says he was on his way to Target and was not NW'ing at the time.

jmo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This is from what I remember and I put JMO. I also looked at the crime scene photos and noticed there was no concrete near Trayvon's body.

<modsnip> I'm not trying to argue with you, just saying what I recall. :seeya:

There was concrete pavement, about 5 ft or so from where he body was found, We don't know where the actual fight started.

 

[m00c0w]

This is from what I remember and I put JMO. I also looked at the crime scene photos and noticed there was no concrete near Trayvon's body.

<modsnip> I'm not trying to argue with you, just saying what I recall. :seeya:

I did not see the "JMO", as it broke off onto the next line. My apologies for that. I was simply asking where you got this info, as that isn't what Zimmerman said in his written statement.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

And as I pointed out...when you are being followed, it's common sense - and LE recommendation - that you NOT GO HOME!!! However, hiding from said person would be instinct, IMO. Where was TM supposed to go? The neighborhood was just that...a neighborhood. He didn't know how far this person was going to go...how far would he follow him.

And, IMO, the state of mind TM is as important as GZ's state of mind. We can't know it for sure, but I truly believe most young black men are on edge about being followed.

Whether that person be law enforcement or not.

But it seems like some are only taking into account what GZ was thinking about TM.

What about what TM was thinking about GZ? Why does that not matter to you?

It doesn't matter to me because it seems TM escalated the situation by attacking him. Jmo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

FACT - Judge ruled on it before court this morning. I think they will hurt GZ. JMO

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...n-emergency-calls-to-dispatchers-judge-rules/

IMO, Not at all. They show that he called each and every time there was a disturbance or suspicious behavior as he was taught to. He was always following the rules. He is always calm. I say it goes for him.

 

[scorekeeper]

I still don't see the concrete GZ refers to in his story. The sidewalk is so far away. GZ's story is that is head was being beat into the concrete and he pulled his gun as this was happening...there is no concrete near Trayvon's body. JMO

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...rayvon-martin-20120517,0,6090406.photogallery

if you look at pictures 35, 36 there appears to be some type of concrete slabs/inserts in the ground

picture 37 shows the body of TM and appears close to one of the concrete slabs/inserts (or perhaps on top of the item)

perhaps these caused the cuts on the back of GZ's head

jmo/moo

 

[GetToTheTruthNow]

Three Key points that favor Zimmerman:

1. Re: Left to right witness--If I correctly understand which side of the path her townhouse was on --and based on that witness saying she heard someone running 'left to right', and again the side of the pathway her townhouse is on---that person was running TOWARD the "T"-- is running toward the intersection where George was. Which means Trayvon Martin had to be heading back toward the "T" intersection to confront George. Had she been living on the other side of the path, left to right would have meant from the "T" intersection toward where Trayvon lived, but that was not the case here.

2. On that 911 tape---the dispatcher said, "which way is he running" which is evidence, not speculation and came out in court. To me Zimmerman was just trying to keep an eye on him so when the officer got there he could point out the townhouse he went into. Nobody on earth calls the cops to the place he plans to murder someone. Also, as the HLN judge said on TV, you can follow someone, that is not a crime unless you do it repeatedly.

3. No way if he was out to kill Trayvon, he wouldn't have suffered substantial injuries to his face, nose and head first. Remember he had a gun--he could have pulled out the gun before he got beat up.

 

[raisincharlie]

There is a notation in the autopsy of an injury to TM right hand I think... And a scar on the left.


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

Thanks - hope there is a photo as pictures are much better than words.

 

[m00c0w]

And as I pointed out...when you are being followed, it's common sense - and LE recommendation - that you NOT GO HOME!!! However, hiding from said person would be instinct, IMO. Where was TM supposed to go? The neighborhood was just that...a neighborhood. He didn't know how far this person was going to go...how far would he follow him.

And, IMO, the state of mind TM is as important as GZ's state of mind. We can't know it for sure, but I truly believe most young black men are on edge about being followed.

Whether that person be law enforcement or not.

But it seems like some are only taking into account what GZ was thinking about TM.

What about what TM was thinking about GZ? Why does that not matter to you?

This is what I said:

This points to some obvious questions about why Martin was still out and about and in the vicinity of Zimmerman when he had so much time to get home or even out of the general area if he was so scared of Zimmerman.​

I acknowledged how Martin may have felt about Zimmerman.

I know that if I were afraid of someone following me, and thought they may wish to do me harm, I certainly would not stick around in the area in which they are looking for me. Which is why I asserted that it was odd to me that Martin did not a) go home or b) leave the area if he was as afraid of a strange man following him as some individuals allege.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Wow can they strike all of this witnesses testimony? This is unbelievable imo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am surprised the state used her as a witness.

O mara is doing a great job.

 

[kimlynn]

No it is not obvious. TM was 6 ft in sneakers. In a big heavy hoodie. He would have looked larger.

The pictures do matter, because they are when he was younger and so she drew the conclusion he was a "kid" and small.. It was not based on actual facts of H/W or how they appeared that night. IMO

When she saw them they were on the ground so shoe sz and how tall each person was wouldn't play into it.IMO
As far as I know the hoodie pic was recent.
If I were to view each of them from a back view as may be how the witness viewed them,GZ would be viewed as the larger peron due to his bulk in the shoulder area.
IMO

 

[cityslick]

I don't see how if your objectionable, no matter what side your one, how this witness is helping the state in any way.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

When she saw them they were on the ground so shoe sz and how tall each person was wouldn't play into it.IMO
As far as I know the hoodie pic was recent.
If I were to view each of them from a back view as may be how the witness viewed them,GZ would be viewed as the larger peron due to his bulk in the shoulder area.
IMO

first she said she did not even know if it was a man or a woman. Then she said she thought the person on top was bigger, then she said she had no idea about how big GZ and TM were at the time and then she said she learned how big TM was from photos so she assumed the guy on top was GZ.

The picture she used to decide that TM was about 11-13 at the time the pics were taking.