George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Suzanna in Arizona]

How large were the wounds on GZ's head, the ones he got (presumably) by having his head pounded?

They showed several photos of his injuries yesterday. He had several "knots/lumps" on his head in addition to about 2 cut places. The cut places did not look very big to me, but I couldn't tell. They were bleeding. Also his nose was swollen and bleeding, and perhaps his upper lip, but don't quote me on the upper lip.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Dispatchers are agents of the police, so yeah LE did want GZ to stop following TM. They didn't want the situation escalating to deadly force as it happened. Just because the dispatcher used the words "don't need" doesn't mean GZ had LE's go ahead to pursue Trayvon!

Absolutely not true as testified to by the non emergency 9-11 operator. They do not give orders or instructions. GZ did nothing wrong and did not disobey any orders. None were given.

 

[m00c0w]

The threshold to be considered mentally defective is extremely high.

But GZ had a history of violent behavior, including resisting an officer and there was a DV protection order in place for him. Should he have had a gun, much less a conceal carry license? IMO, no. But that's another topic completely.

He was only convicted of "resisting a police officer without violence".

The restraining order was issued in tandem with a restraining order for him, against his ex. That amounted to a he-said, she-said argument.

If there was anything credible, and he was taken to court and actually convicted of domestic violence, he would be prohibited from possessing a firearm per the Lautenberg amendment.

 

[legalmania]

I would wonder how she even got to the 12th grade?

I know the school she goes to, it is so overcrowded that I'm sure the teachers barely have time to teach. I don't think it's important how old she is when she graduates just that she graduates. On the other hand I bet she is street smart. Which I would rather have someone like her on the streets than a person who can read and write cursive.

 

[sacrablue]

Medication for what? If the individual has been adjudicated mentally defective, they are forbidden by federal law from possessing a firearm period. Much less a carry permit for such.

Amherst NY
Erie County officials have only taken action against one pistol permit holder on mental health grounds.
It is a joke.

 

[cityslick]

So back to trial. Anything from this last witness that benefits either side? Also can we move in from talking about the girl and her grade level?

 

[legalmania]

Does anyone know if he was charged with discharging a firearm in a residential area?

 

[Morag]

How do you believe he got the injuries?

According to the medical report from the next day, about 14 hours later, the injuries to the back of his head were two in number. One was 2 centimeters, about 3/4 of an inch, and the second one was .5 centimeters, about 1/5 of an inch. Furthermore, he reported no headache, no dizziness, no blurred vision, etc. So his injuries were not serious, not life-threatening.

His head was described as normocephalic (normal) and atraumatic (unclear why this word was used as the definition seems to refer to a medical procedure rather than an injury).

GZ had very short hair at that time. According to him, his head was banged on the pavement multiple times. Yet he had only two very small scratches which required no stitches. Maybe he cut himself shaving?

link to report
:http://www.scribd.com/doc/99022693/George-Zimmerman-Medical-Report

 

[m00c0w]

Amherst NY
Erie County officials have only taken action against one pistol permit holder on mental health grounds.
It is a joke.

Let's include that entire quote so as to not appear to be biased:

Erie County officials have only taken action against one pistol permit holder on mental health grounds since the SAFE Act was passed last month​

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/erie/gun-permit-suspended-over-medication

 

[PaintingAnemone]

His charges were dropped..... every single one.

This is a fact and the defense has the records to prove it.

He took anger management classes.

The charges being dropped because he took, in one case, substance abuse classes and, in the other case, anger management classes doesn't negate the fact that he has a history of assaulting people. He also lost a job for being too aggressive, but I don't think they offer classes for that where he was working.

If I get a speeding ticket, but agree to take a driving safety class, my ticket gets dropped, but it doesn't mean I wasn't speeding - and if I wait about a year (at least, in my state), I can speed again and still be eligible to get the charge dropped by taking another class.

 

[iluvmua]

According to the medical report from the next day, about 14 hours later, the injuries to the back of his head were two in number. One was 2 centimeters, about 3/4 of an inch, and the second one was .5 centimeters, about 1/5 of an inch. Furthermore, he reported no headache, no dizziness, no blurred vision, etc. So his injuries were not serious, not life-threatening.

His head was described as normocephalic (normal) and atraumatic (unclear why this word was used as the definition seems to refer to a medical procedure rather than an injury).

GZ had very short hair at that time. According to him, his head was banged on the pavement multiple times. Yet he had only two very small scratches which required no stitches. Maybe he cut himself shaving?

link to report
:http://www.scribd.com/doc/99022693/George-Zimmerman-Medical-Report

According to you, not according to George IMO

 

[mom23gr8kids]

http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/...e-zimmerman-map-911-call-timing-v-2.jpg?w=584

Yeah even according to that map. His house is near the end which is nearly 3 full buildings (each looking to have 4 residences IMO) away so lie 10 residences away. I wouldn't consider that anywhere near "right beside my house". JMO

 

[iluvmua]

The charges being dropped because he took, in one case, substance abuse classes and, in the other case, anger management classes doesn't negate the fact that he has a history of assaulting people. He also lost a job for being too aggressive, but I don't think they offer classes for that where he was working.

If I get a speeding ticket, but agree to take a driving safety class, my ticket gets dropped, but it doesn't mean I wasn't speeding - and if I wait about a year (at least, in my state), I can speed again and still be eligible to get the charge dropped by taking another class.

I don't want to get too far ahead esp. since his records may not even come in.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

According to the medical report from the next day, about 14 hours later, the injuries to the back of his head were two in number. One was 2 centimeters, about 3/4 of an inch, and the second one was .5 centimeters, about 1/5 of an inch. Furthermore, he reported no headache, no dizziness, no blurred vision, etc. So his injuries were not serious, not life-threatening.

His head was described as normocephalic (normal) and atraumatic (unclear why this word was used as the definition seems to refer to a medical procedure rather than an injury).

GZ had very short hair at that time. According to him, his head was banged on the pavement multiple times. Yet he had only two very small scratches which required no stitches. Maybe he cut himself shaving?

link to report
:http://www.scribd.com/doc/99022693/George-Zimmerman-Medical-Report

How do you believe he got the injuries?

 

[cityslick]

The charges being dropped because he took, in one case, substance abuse classes and, in the other case, anger management classes doesn't negate the fact that he has a history of assaulting people. He also lost a job for being too aggressive, but I don't think they offer classes for that where he was working.

If I get a speeding ticket, but agree to take a driving safety class, my ticket gets dropped, but it doesn't mean I wasn't speeding - and if I wait about a year (at least, in my state), I can speed again and still be eligible to get the charge dropped by taking another class.

So does this mean one who gets two speeding tickets is a reckless driver?

Raises hand....guilty as charged I guess

 

[m00c0w]

The charges being dropped because he took, in one case, substance abuse classes and, in the other case, anger management classes doesn't negate the fact that he has a history of assaulting people. He also lost a job for being too aggressive, but I don't think they offer classes for that where he was working.

If I get a speeding ticket, but agree to take a driving safety class, my ticket gets dropped, but it doesn't mean I wasn't speeding - and if I wait about a year (at least, in my state), I can speed again and still be eligible to get the charge dropped by taking another class.

Where did he take anger management classes that resulted in charges being dropped? I'd appreciate a link please. Thanks.

 

[iluvmua]

Popsicle, Can you find a bigger map?

I'm having trouble reading everything. TY.

 

[corundogs]

Yeah even according to that map. His house is near the end which is nearly 3 full buildings (each looking to have 4 residences IMO) away so lie 10 residences away. I wouldn't consider that anywhere near "right beside my house". JMO

This is another matter of semantics in this case, IMO.

When I drive into my neighborhood, I am "right beside my house" - though I wouldn't actually use those exact words since I normally speak in pretty straight forward English. Teenagers today however, do not. I don't like it, my 2nd cousins use some of the strangest language...but they are as white as can be (blonde hair/blue eyes), and some are in the Army, etc. I have heard them use the exact same words Trayvon reportedly did with Rachel.

However, when I drive into my neighborhood, I am still more than 1/2 mile from my actual driveway.

If I can see my house, I am right by my house. I would absolutely say that.

However, I could easily be a football field or more away. And I would still say that.

 

[Maryann123]

That T area is not that far from the unit. Those are buildings with multiple units.

I think he was 2 or 3 buildings down. He was "in the back" of them. That pathway is the same pathway of the building of the girlfriend (I hate having to designate since some people pick out that minutia and make it the whole point...it would just be easier to say "his house" but it wasn't...so whatever)

And again, not going back to that unit was actually very smart. The only one home was a child. No adults there. Why on earth would you go to a place where no one is home to defend you with someone following you? I sure hope none of you ever do that if you are put in that situation!!!

On the other hand, he is a young black man. Him running up to someone else's unit, at night in the rain, saying "someone is following me! Help me! Let me in!"

Yeah, right! He knows THAT WOULD NEVER FLY! Who would let them in? I wouldn't. And again, I hope none of you would either if you are ever in that situation. It is what it is!!!

The state of society we live in today. I wish that was not the case.

Trayvon was in a strange neighborhood - not because he didn't belong there, but that's the facts!

In his mind - and again, I don't think there is a person alive who could convince me otherwise - he was being chased. He was on the defensive.

George's actions put him in that situation. I think George should pay for those actions.

That's a lot of "good reasons" for not asking for help, but you left out one other thing. If he was afraid, he could have gotten off the phone with the one person in the world that could never be of any help, and call 911. She never heard back from him, she heard a fight in wet grass (according to her) yet, she never followed up on it. If she really heard this confrontation take place, she would have been concerned. She's pretty oblivious to detecting any danger that night, but later on she absolutely knows he was attacked by GZ. TM and his GF both thought he could "take" GZ, and thus, it was all good! He never dreamed that "cracker" (his word) had a gun.

 

[sacrablue]

Good show people. Many good points.