George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[Nezumi]

Why would GZ be screaming? He had all of the "Help" he needed in his pocket, locked and loaded. Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense for someone whose first choice was not to have take someone else's life in order to save his own. I have no doubt that GZ would have preferred that someone come to his aid rather than having to shoot anyone.

 

[ShadyLady]

I applaud this man for coming forward. Many people would have run and hid, and conveniently forgotten what they saw.

The public pressure has been immense....not even taking into account all the death threats.

 

[missmazzy]

John just said that the position of the two men never changed, GZ on the bottom, TM on the top. Depending on what the ME says about the bullet wound, looks like GZ may walk (JMO of course).

 

[Horace Finklestein]

What exactly is the point of the weapon then? Just give carte blanche to people who are unarmed to do anything they want to someone, regardless if they have a weapon because they knew they will never be at fault?

Well there seems to be an implication from some people that he shouldn't have shot TM because his injuries were "scratches" and weren't that bad. No one to my knowledge has answered whether or not he should have taken a more thorough beating before defending himself.

 

[daisy7]

He lived in Miami Gardens. Specifically. He might have been afraid of someone following him there -- maybe. But not of George in Sanford, in my very, very strong opinion.

I'm not sure if you have ever been to Miami Gardens? I have. My point is that being from Miami-Dade County, in general, would have made him more fearful, where ever he was. I moved up to a little town outside P'Cola and it was a huge culture shock after living in Miami for many years. Not having the 3-car rule up here was just one huge difference JMO.

 

[Donnareit]

I often wonder why they never ask witnesses if they wear contact lenses or glasses and if they had them on.

I agree with you, but in this case it probably wouldn't make much difference. The ONE thing these neighbor witnesses DO AGREE on is it was TOO DARK to see.
I have to say this trial is the best example I've seen for discounting eye witness testimony. Forensic science is the only reliable, unbiased fact finder here. :moo:

 

[AZWatcher]

It makes perfect sense for someone whose first choice was not to have take someone else's life in order to save his own. I have no doubt that GZ would have preferred that someone come to his aid rather than having to shoot anyone.

Ok, however... TM was well within his rights to protect himself with bodily force from someone who was clearly PURSUING him ... in the dark ... for no apparent reason. GZ would have been well within his rights to stand down and let the police handle things.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

Why is Bernie stressing that? LIke any reasonable human being really thinks that you can see the arms/fist coming down but they are NOT hitting flesh? As if someone is going to be on top and doing what hitting the ground? stopping before they hit the person? I don't get how the state thinks that point helps them?

 

[Lovelymountains]

We have testimony from Sean, the NEN taker (Not LE), that they are not liable to give orders, only make suggestions. And George was never told ever to go back to his car by anyone.

GZ, IMO, used a very poor judgement to get out of his car, but following someone is not illegal.

and I agree with the rest of what you posted, and I most def. agree that this trial should have never happened.

JMO

It was my understanding, and perhaps I misheard, that Sean, the NEN dispatcher said they are trained to not give orders because of liability. I believe he meant legal liability in the event something untoward happened as a result of said order. IMO

 

[sacrablue]

Well there seems to be an implication from some people that he shouldn't have shot TM because his injuries were "scratches" and weren't that bad. No one to my knowledge has answered whether or not he should have taken a more thorough beating before defending himself.

Have you seen GZ's hands after this life threatening battle?

 

[missmazzy]

Well there seems to be an implication from some people that he shouldn't have shot TM because his injuries were "scratches" and weren't that bad. No one to my knowledge has answered whether or not he should have taken a more thorough beating before defending himself.

I know if it were me, I would have shot first and asked questions later. I am not a gun owner, but support the 2nd amendment. If I were on the ground, unable to move, getting my head bashed in, if I had a gun, I would use it.

 

[iluvmua]

I thought GZ said that he grabbed his gun because he said TM had seen it.

I wouldn't be a bit surprized if GZ didn't flash his gun at TM when he questioned why he was there...lifted his jacket, perhaps....not sure...could have been at any time during the conflict. IMV

IIRC, He only brought it out when he was defending his life.

At no time, did he try and let TM see his gun at any time, He was trying to keep it concealed so TM would not see his gun and try to get it.

JMO

 

[DIBSY]

That was after the fatal shot....... I see the media is at it again.

IMO

I don't think it is manipulation by Nancy Grace OR the media since everyone offline I've discussed this murder with think GZ was on top of TM when he murdered him and that the pattern of gunpowder residue on the TM's clothing came from GZ grabbing his double layer of clothing and holding it up in order to fire at his purposed target, the victim's heart region. As we know, the gun didn't go off accidently, it was carefully aimed to kill.IMV

 

[katiewonders]

Why is Bernie stressing that? LIke any reasonable human being really thinks that you can see the arms/fist coming down but they are NOT hitting flesh? As if someone is going to be on top and doing what hitting the ground? stopping before they hit the person? I don't get how the state thinks that point helps them?

The downward movements of the arms might have been the thrusting of GZ's head against the concrete. Either way, it doesn't help the state. Notice they didn't suggest this might have happened instead of actual hits to the face. <ahem> They want the jury to think TM was only hold GZ down. MOO

 

[Lovelymountains]

Also the State did not include Manslaughter on their charge, it's either Guilty of 2nd degree murder or not.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html

I believe FL law requires lesser included, in this case Manslaughter, and they have done so. IMO

 

[Mrs.g]

I know if it were me, I would have shot first and asked questions later. I am not a gun owner, but support the 2nd amendment. If I were on the ground, unable to move, getting my head bashed in, if I had a gun, I would use it.

I know if it were me I would of reported the suspicious activity and stayed in my car until police arrived. Why put yourself in what could be a dangerous situation?

 

[iluvmua]

Ok, however... TM was well within his rights to protect himself with bodily force from someone who was clearly PURSUING him ... in the dark ... for no apparent reason. GZ would have been well within his rights to stand down and let the police handle things.

Have you seen the evidence in this case?

just wondering

 

[Morag]

Another of MHOs, but GZ did himself a great disservice by gaining so much weight. He was so much smaller at the time of this incident. He was definitely the smaller of the two that night.
One more thing....must the judge be so snippy to the defense?

The part I have bolded is not strictly true. At Trayvon's autopsy, he was said to weigh 158 and to be 5'11' in height. When GZ was seeing his doctor the following day, he was described as 5'7 1/2", and weighed 204 pounds. So Trayvon was 46 pounds lighter, and only 3 1/2" taller. GZ was slightly the shorter that night, and by far the heavier.

 

[Boodles]

I might add that I think :seeya:most if not all of the State's witnesses thus far no longer live in Sanford. I gleaned that info from the Pros asking them where they now live.

The pros asks each witness where they reside, and for those who lived at the complex, he asks whether they currently live in Seminole county. He specifically does not ask them their current address, but whether they lived in the complex during February 2012.

They may or may not still live in their townhome. He is simply trying to protect their privacy. It does not necessarily mean that they moved.

 

[Karmady]

Another of MHOs, but GZ did himself a great disservice by gaining so much weight. He was so much smaller at the time of this incident. He was definitely the smaller of the two that night.

One more thing....must the judge be so snippy to the defense?

I can't blame him for gaining weight under the circumstance (not saying you are), but I don't think it'll matter. The jury has seen the photos of him that night and his height and weight then and I think they'll be able to keep that in mind. Also, George isn't "big" he's obese and out of shape. I would say that especially in his current state Trayvon could have even more easily kicked his butt. jmo