George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[Just K]

Because this last few seconds, immediately before GZ shot TM, it is highly possible and probable since the two moved from grass to concrete to grass and then shot fired, that TM may have been trying to get off and away...as in pushing himself up and off.

 

[sacrablue]

No, sacrablue, that's not true. The force of your head with the weight of your body flying through the air is probably MORE force than someone on top of you, picking your head up a few inches and slamming it.

Flying over the handlebars onto your head is MORE force.

And I've seen people walk away from that, dazed and bleeding.

I guarantee you if I slam or bash your head into a sidewalk, you are not going to be walking away.

 

[cityslick]

The witnesses all say the man got up after the shot.

No one says the man lay back down onto the concrete once he got up.

Don't forget put his hands up as well. Keep in mind LE was also there very soon after the shot.

 

[missmazzy]

This guy is hostile to both sides!

 

[PaperDoll]

I think this witness is creditable in what he saw and heard. However, I was listening to GZ statement to the police and some of what he told the police isn't "jiving" with this guys testimony. George said he saw a guy come out and he said "help help this guy is killing me".. GZ also said that TM was pounding his head into the pavement, then GZ tried to wiggle his way out from underneath TM and that was when TM saw the gun and started to go for it. But here is the kicker, if you listen to GZ police statement, GZ said TM had his hands on his nose and mouth, then once he saw the gun, he started to go for it as he slammed GZ's head into the pavement and that was when GZ shot him. If TM was reaching for the gun then he could not have slammed GZ head into the pavement. :twocents:

 

[JeannaT]

I guarantee you if I slam or bash your head into a sidewalk, you are not going to be walking away.

Maybe this has gone far afield of being on topic, but in fact, I've seen someone bash their head hard enough to crack their skull get up and walk away.

 

[JeannaT]

This guy is hostile to both sides!

I think the defense atty kind of explained that - he REALLY doesn't want to testify and become a public figure.

Very, very reluctant witness.

 

[JudyBolton]

When the defense has their witness testify that the way the bullet impacted TM's chest and his clothing proves that he was on top maybe then people will believe. His clothing had to be hanging forward off of his body when shot and I believe they will prove this. jmo

Yes! I've been posting about this witness - so far the state has not produced ANY what I call forensic evidence.... only witnesses most of which only heard things and they heard different things (3 shots).....imo

Any idea how many more witnesses are on the list for the state?

 

[cityslick]

Because this last few seconds, immediately before GZ shot TM, it is highly possible and probable since the two moved from grass to concrete to grass and then shot fired, that TM may have been trying to get off and away...as in pushing himself up and off.

I don't think that would explain the location of the bullet wound then.

 

[missmazzy]

I think the defense atty kind of explained that - he REALLY doesn't want to testify and become a public figure.

Very, very reluctant witness.

I heard MO'M say something, but I was yelling at my parrot and didn't hear it! Biggest drawback of watching online...no rewind!

 

[faw720]

I don't understand why they keep going over the same testimony over and over and over. What does this accomplish?

I don't just mean with this witness, but all of them.

IMO, just attorneys from both sides trying to trip up a witness.

 

[cityslick]

Precisely. Trayvon's fear grew considerably after GZ had him down; given the urgency, volume and sheer terror evinced from his screams :moo:

According to testimony, I haven't seen evidence that TM was ever 'down', meaning on the bottom.

 

[missmazzy]

Speculation time....if John saw arms going up and down from the shoulders....could it not only be punching, could it be grabbing a jacket and bashing a head on the ground?

 

[Chester_from_THM]

Selma Mora, from yesterday, who identified GZ was the person on top in the struggle. She identified his jacket as red and black. She also stated she saw the police as biased in favor of George Zimmerman. This touchpad on Husband's puter is almost impossible to C&P. Still I googled for link using words Selma Mora, red and black jacket, GZ trial..and ABC News had the detailed report. Hope this helps.

Thank you Dibsy. I googled for a picture, and she was the one from Colombia with the translator.

 

[corundogs]

I hate it when I wake up late...I am not in "focused" mode yet. I am having a really hard time following. And I missed almost his entire testimony.

 

[iluvmua]

Also the State did not include Manslaughter on their charge, it's either Guilty of 2nd degree murder or not.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html

 

[corundogs]

I will say, 8-10 seconds isn't very long. He sure seems to have seen a lot.

 

[corundogs]

Does anyone else find it weird that it seems most of these witnesses only heard "help" twice??

I mean, we know for a fact that we heard it much more often from the 911 call, right?

 

[jjenny]

sacrablue, no one is disputing that the dispatcher said that.

The point is, the dispatcher doesn't have authority over the caller - and can't tell the caller what to do. They can't give a "lawful order".

In fact, there was a case recently in Texas where someone was breaking into a home, the homeowner called 911 and the dispatcher told him not to shoot, to wait for cops to get there, and the home owner said no, I'm going to shoot him if he actually comes in my house. The intruder came in, was shot to death, and that was that. The dispatcher doesn't have the right to tell someone what to do if they are acting lawfully.

I think you are talking about a case where two people were breaking into the neighbor's house (not the homeowner's). In TX, I don't think dispatcher is going to give advice to not shoot someone breaking into owner's house. These people broke into neighbor's house, not the owner's. Dispatcher told the owner to not go outside and shoot them. The owner says he is going outside, went outside, shot and killed both men. Grand jury refused to indict, and that was that.

 

[cityslick]

Does anyone else find it weird that it seems most of these witnesses only heard "help" twice??

I mean, we know for a fact that we heard it much more often from the 911 call, right?

I agree, the 911 call had the screaming go on for some time but I haven't seen any witness collaborate that. I did find it a little interesting that he said the help sounded differently then the 911 call but maybe that's a result of it coming over the phone then hearing it in person?