George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[daisy7]

Does anyone have a link to his 911 call handy?

 

[corundogs]

Red or white?

That's weird.

But I should probably still be in bed after staying up til almost 2am to watch Big Brother...and I am not able to focus at all!

I couldn't even tell you what this guy said 20 seconds ago. It's really bugging me I can't follow this witness, since it seems like an important one!

Dangit!

 

[Lovelymountains]

JG saw the two initially from the side...meaning he saw the sides of the two figures. The side of GZ's jacket was dark gray. And, how could he see that the one on top had darker skin when it was so dark he couldn't see if they were even people... how could he see whose skin was darker?

IMO embellishment.

 

[Just K]

We disagree,I don't see him as credible. He changed his story and has added details today.

 

[cityslick]

And we can't ask Trayvon the question. However, Rachel said he said GZ was following him.

Would you be afraid if you were walking by yourself in the dark and a stranger kept following and staring at you, both by car then by foot? This is a sincere question. I would.

Yup, and I would of keep on running or walking fast, getting out of the entire area. If I was by my house during this point in time, I probably would of went inside.

 

[cityslick]

We disagree, he changed his story and has added details today.

Actually his initial deposition is the most damning to the state. At least that's what I thought when I first read it.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

I think the variances (all slight) IMO are easily explained and this goes for GZ's, RJ's, and the witnesses. High stress situations can cause you sometimes to not remember things exactly as they happen but as you perceive them in the moment. Also as time elapses and you process through your trauma you can often remember more as a victim and maybe less as a witness, etc.

This was my own personal experience from being involved in a crime. That night when the police came the only thing I could tell them honestly was the guy had a gun because for a few days that was all I could see and remember when closing my eyes. However within a few days as I processed through the trauma I could certainly remember much more about the event.

I don't see these slight differences as helping or hurting either side honestly because from my own experience I expect it to be slightly different and also evolving.

IMOO

 

[JeannaT]

And we can't ask Trayvon the question. However, Rachel said he said GZ was following him.

Would you be afraid if you were walking by yourself in the dark and a stranger kept following and staring at you, both by car then by foot? This is a sincere question. I would.

I think anyone would have been scared, or at least irritated in TM's position.

The point here, is that at the time when GZ was on the grass being hurt, he had a right to shoot to kill, out of a rational fear for his life.

 

[TXN4LIFE]

This witness is not going to allow himself to get tricked into saying something that he doesn't know. O'Mara ask a question, Good tells him he couldn't tell (like if he saw George trying to move out from under Trayvon) and then he comes back and ask him to describe it. He tells him I cant describe something I just told you I didn't see.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I find John to be the most believable of all the eye/ear witnesses thus far.

I do too.

My previous comment about unreliable eye-ear witness was not directed to this witness. It was just a general comment. Not even about this trial specifically.

Just to clarify, lest anyone think I am trying to say anything derogatory about these witnesses, I am not.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think the defense atty kind of explained that - he REALLY doesn't want to testify and become a public figure.

Very, very reluctant witness.

After the numerous death threats agains GZ I don't really blame him. imo

 

[iluvmua]

And we can't ask Trayvon the question. However, Rachel said he said GZ was following him.

Would you be afraid if you were walking by yourself in the dark and a stranger kept following and staring at you, both by car then by foot? This is a sincere question. I would.

I would be afraid, but if I was right by the place I was staying at at I would go inside and call 911 or go to the nearest door and bang for help etc., not hide and attack someone or decide to double back.

JMO

IMO, based on the evidence so far, Trayvon did one of these things.

 

[gxm]

???

I don't think I've heard any other witness be MORE careful to only report what he actually saw and not speculate at all what was going on, beyond what he actually witnessed.

The speculation of the "ear witnesses" has been maddening. Unbelievable, and IMO their testimony should be tossed out.

 

[Karmady]

I think you are talking about a case where two people were breaking into the neighbor's house (not the homeowner's). In TX, I don't think dispatcher is going to give advice to not shoot someone breaking into owner's house. These people broke into neighbor's house, not the owner's. Dispatcher told the owner to not go outside and shoot them. The owner says he is going outside, went outside, shot and killed both men. Grand jury refused to indict, and that was that.

Actually, there was a young mom in Oklahoma who did just that and the dispatcher said she couldn't tell her it was okay to shoot him. The dispatcher did tell her to do what was necessary to protect her 3 month old from the intruder and the mom did shoot him.

 

[popsicle]

And we can't ask Trayvon the question. However, Rachel said he said GZ was following him.

Would you be afraid if you were walking by yourself in the dark and a stranger kept following and staring at you, both by car then by foot? This is a sincere question. I would.

I would have either high tailed it into my house and called 911 or hid from the person. I certainly would not be out walking around.

 

[jjenny]

The speculation of the "ear witnesses" has been maddening. Unbelievable, and IMO their testimony should be tossed out.

I agree. They are clearly speculating. Why is that allowed in a court of law?

 

[?noanswer]

And we can't ask Trayvon the question. However, Rachel said he said GZ was following him.

Would you be afraid if you were walking by yourself in the dark and a stranger kept following and staring at you, both by car then by foot? This is a sincere question. I would.

I would be scared to death and also would make every effort that I could to get away. If I had access to a cell phone I would call 911. I sure would not be on a cell phone relaying what happened to another person.

JMO

 

[Just K]

JG, may be trying to be literal but he is adding details to moments when he has described it as too hard to "tell what it looked like."

 

[mom23gr8kids]

Is there a single witness attached to this case that still lives in that development?? So far I think everyone I have heard has moved away.

I'll be honest and say I would too! I'd have probably packed the next day!!

 

[my_tee_mouse]

When ya'll get to a break in this trial today, I think anyone interested in the "confront/question" or "self-defense" issues might be interested in this case:

http://5newsonline.com/2013/06/27/suspect-in-custody-in-fort-smith-double-homicide/

Two men are dead after being attacked by a man armed with a machete at a Fort Smith home, according to police.

According to court documents, Kinsey said he was walking back from the Dollar Store when he thought he saw a person who used to date his mother. While looking through a backyard, Kinsey said he was confronted by three people who wanted to know why he was there.
Kinsey and the victims exchanged words and Kinsey pulled out a machete to warn them, the documents state.
Kinsey told police he didn’t think the men would let him go so he started swinging the machete, striking two of them. The men backed away, but Kinsey told police he pursued them and hit one of them in the alley, according to court documents.