George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #6

[Chester_from_THM]

And now this next cop starts *telling* GZ what the story is?

When do they ever do this in an investigation?

They always have the suspect start the story themselves, not feed it to them!

To me, this investigation was totally shoddy and perfunctory, aimed at getting GZ home with minimal delay and effort.

In my opinion!

 

[iluvmua]

Manslaughter is not on the table until the prosecution put it on there this weekend.

They just went straight for 2nd degree murder

If anybody has a link that says manslaughter charges are included, I would like to read it.

But it has always been my understanding that it was only 2nd degree murder.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There's also an important key here: George did not shoot Trayvon because he was being beaten up, he said he did it because Trayvon went for his gun. That is something that hinges on believing George Zimmerman and I don't know if I necessarily do because parts of his story do not add up at all.

That is under threat of his life also. GZ has been beaten. He has proof this guy is prone to violence. Either reason works for self defense. IMO.

 

[missmazzy]

Well, what is the minimum? Just because some people think the judge would do that doesn't mean she would.

The minimum is 9 years according to the site I saw. However, it doubles when there is a gun involved.

 

[MeeBee]

Maybe, What I get is that you think he should be held guilty for something other than the actual event.

That is what I don't understand.

GZ did nothing illegal. Not that has been proven yet.

It seems that some people, not you specifically but people in general seem to just want to get him for something.. Because TM is dead..

What if it was reversed. Same circumstances yet it was TM that had the gun...

I wonder if people would feel the same?? JMHO


I think that he is not guilty of murder. I don't even think he is guilty of manslaughter. Maybe if he had an illegal firearm but I just don't see it..

MOO.

No, I think he should be held accountable for his actions. Is that so hard to understand? I just don't want to get him for any old thing. But his story doesn't add up and the circumstances surrounding the altercation are very important. This wasn't just a case of someone walking around minding his own business and Trayvon attacked him. He followed a kid, made him feel uneasy or threatened or whatever and Trayvon reacted. If this ended up any other way then Trayvon would need to be held accountable for his actions as well. But he's dead so that can't happen.

It doesn't make it murder, but come on. He is not completely innocent here. And I haven't chosen to completely take him at his work because his story doesn't add up and I do not belive he was walking back to his truck when Trayvon attacked him. I don't believe that based on the evidence before you say so. Based on the testimony of the girl who was on the phone when the fight started and based on the layout of the area.

 

[sacrablue]

Cover the body with what? Meanwhile, the police arrived - I wouldn't be over there covering a body when a police officer with a flashlight was standing right there. He believes, at this point, that TM is alive, BTW.

With the jacket on your back.

 

[AngelWings444]

But he did nothing legally wrong. What did he do that was so wrong? Because any of us might handle it differently than the other.

This was a 6 ft tall guy.

TM is dead because Beat up GZ and he shot him to save his life. IMO.

That is not GZ's fault. That is a tragedy But I don't see anything that says that GZ is guilty of anything other than having a legal firearm.

IMO.

Trayvon is considered the victim. GZ in on trial because LE thinks he did do something very wrong. We do not know that Trayvon did anything wrong that night. It may be as simple as GZ following him, not wanted these *(#^$% punks who always get away...get away. He may have grabbed Trayvon and then Trayvon, who feared for him life, knew he as being followed, had RUN from GZ, fought him off. Trayvon had a right to defend himself. He was unarmed, walking home from the store. IMO - it's so sad that a kid is dead and he gets no benefit of the doubt. The defendant is being given all the benefit of the doubt, even after he was told not to follow. This could have been prevented. JMO

 

[MeeBee]

Manslaughter is not on the table until the prosecution put it on there this weekend.

They just went straight for 2nd degree murder

If anybody has a link that says manslaughter charges are included, I would like to read it.

But it has always been my understanding that it was only 2nd degree murder.

I don't know if it is, but it stands to reason that it will get on the table before it goes to the jury.

 

[Nymeria]

I just did a search and found pictures of TM's pants with staining on the knees.. Could be grass stains IMO

Do you have a link or can you post the pic?

Every one I look at from the crime scene or GZ at police station just don't show any grass or mud on either. At least not what I would expect from 2 people struggling on wet, possibly muddy grass.
TIA!


PS- They both do have what seems like "dampness" on their clothing, GZ's rear end and the bottom of TM's pants below his knees. I just assume that could be from laying out in the rain on TMs part (and being covered by the blanket but not below the knees), GZ from sitting down at some point anywhere outdoors.

 

[JeannaT]

With the jacket on your back.

This is a teeny bit off topic, but I listen to morning talk radio here in Austin. There's this talk show with a lifelong career cop. When there is a civilian shooting that involves several shots - the shooter doesn't just shoot once at close range and stop, they continue to shoot, this guy always pipes up and says it's rare for one shot to stop someone. Often, the shooter has to shoot again and again while the assailant is still a threat.

If I were so moved by fear that I shot someone once, I wouldn't be feeling the compassion to go risk my life again to offer them my coat. It's hard to believe anyone would be expected to go from shooting an assailant to the next minute putting their life in danger trying to help them.

 

[rob]

Maybe, What I get is that you think he should be held guilty for something other than the actual event.

That is what I don't understand.

GZ did nothing illegal. Not that has been proven yet.

It seems that some people, not you specifically but people in general seem to just want to get him for something.. Because TM is dead..

What if it was reversed. Same circumstances yet it was TM that had the gun...

I wonder if people would feel the same?? JMHO



I think that he is not guilty of murder. I don't even think he is guilty of manslaughter. Maybe if he had an illegal firearm but I just don't see it..

MOO.

If this was the same case, but GZ was dead, because TM had the gun, we would heve never heard of this case.

 

[Karmady]

I hope MOM gets CS to admit that he did not believe they had enough evidence to charge GZ and that he was pressured to change his report 4-5 times because of two black officers and one of those officers was friendly with Tracy Martin.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html

imo, since the majority of the State's "case" is in, it's all over but the cryin'. And the defense hasn't even started yet. A travesty, imo.

 

[Moonie]

A 9 mm point blank shot to the chest area gives you peace of mind the victim is not going to chase you back to the car.

Especially when it is filled with hollow point bullets. Smh.


Imo.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No, I think he should be held accountable for his actions. Is that so hard to understand? I just don't want to get him for any old thing. But his story doesn't add up and the circumstances surrounding the altercation are very important. This wasn't just a case of someone walking around minding his own business and Trayvon attacked him. He followed a kid, made him feel uneasy or threatened or whatever and Trayvon reacted. If this ended up any other way then Trayvon would need to be held accountable for his actions as well. But he's dead so that can't happen.

It doesn't make it murder, but come on. He is not completely innocent here. And I haven't chosen to completely take him at his work because his story doesn't add up and I do not belive he was walking back to his truck when Trayvon attacked him. I don't believe that based on the evidence before you say so. Based on the testimony of the girl who was on the phone when the fight started and based on the layout of the area.

What actions is what I am trying to figure out.

BBM, That is just your opinion.

What is he guilty of? That is what I am trying to understand? What do you feel he is guilty of? What crime that he should be prosecuted for? Im not being flip, I am trying to understand what would be a good out come for you.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

Oh lord, then telling him he'll get him help, and he'll help GZ get out of there quickly so he can get home to bed!

This is absurd to even call this an investigation. What was that, 5 whole minutes of questioning, with the LEO mostly recapping George's claims.

This is the point being made by the Prosecution and why these LEOs are *not* state witnesses in the traditional sense. The Prosecution is showing that this was not investigated properly at the outset.

In my opinion.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Manslaughter is not on the table until the prosecution put it on there this weekend.

They just went straight for 2nd degree murder

If anybody has a link that says manslaughter charges are included, I would like to read it.

But it has always been my understanding that it was only 2nd degree murder.

"Jurors will get the opportunity to consider the lesser charge of manslaughter, but prosecutors will spend weeks in court arguing for second-degree murder. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/u...n-emotions-still-raw.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"Zimmerman is now charged with second degree murder, which requires proof of intent to kill, and carries with it a maximum sentence of life in prison. However, embedded in the second degree charge, are what are called "lesser included offenses," including voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, which carry a maximum sentence of 15 years. Even a subtle reference to a particular verdict in Nelson's instructions can point the jury toward a certain outcome. "
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-i-pinsky/trayvon-martin-trial-what_b_3369581.html

 

[PrincessSezMe]

The penalty for manslaughter with a gun is 30 years. IMO, that is too severe for what happened in this case. Yes, TM is dead, but it could have easily been reversed. I believe GZ is "guilty" of self defense (not a crime), or reckless endangerment (although that doesn't really fit either).

There is no specific crime under Florida Statutes for Reckless Endangerment:

"In Florida, there is no one specific crime called "reckless endangerment," however laws do exist that address child neglect and culpable negligence, both of which are crimes."

"Culpable Negligence
Culpable negligence is defined as exposing another person (adult or child) to personal injury. If this crime has been committed, it is a misdemeanor of the second degree. If a person inflicts actual personal injury on another person, it is a culpable negligence misdemeanor of the first degree."

http://www.ehow.com/list_6795628_florida-reckless-endangerment-laws.html

"(4) A person who has been convicted of a designated misdemeanor may be sentenced as follows:
(a) For a misdemeanor of the first degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 1 year;
(b) For a misdemeanor of the second degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 60 days."

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.082.html

MOO

 

[MeeBee]

"Jurors will get the opportunity to consider the lesser charge of manslaughter, but prosecutors will spend weeks in court arguing for second-degree murder. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/u...n-emotions-still-raw.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"Zimmerman is now charged with second degree murder, which requires proof of intent to kill, and carries with it a maximum sentence of life in prison. However, embedded in the second degree charge, are what are called "lesser included offenses," including voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, which carry a maximum sentence of 15 years. Even a subtle reference to a particular verdict in Nelson's instructions can point the jury toward a certain outcome. "
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-i-pinsky/trayvon-martin-trial-what_b_3369581.html

Involuntary manslaughter seems applicable to me. And the max for that is 15 years, meaning the minimum is even less and probably something like 5 years. I will look it up and if George is convicted of that he'll probably be out in a fraction of the time.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Do you have a link or can you post the pic?

Every one I look at from the crime scene or GZ at police station just don't show any grass or mud on either. At least not what I would expect from 2 people struggling on wet, possibly muddy grass.
TIA!


PS- They both do have what seems like "dampness" on their clothing, GZ's rear end and the bottom of TM's pants below his knees. I just assume that could be from laying out in the rain on TMs part (and being covered by the blanket but not below the knees), GZ from sitting down at some point anywhere outdoors.

It was a picture of his pants on a table. It clearly showed staining of some kind. I can not link it because it was on a blog.. but I searched TM's pant grass stains and hit images..

 

[sacrablue]

This is a teeny bit off topic, but I listen to morning talk radio here in Austin. There's this talk show with a lifelong career cop. When there is a civilian shooting that involves several shots - the shooter doesn't just shoot once at close range and stop, they continue to shoot, this guy always pipes up and says it's rare for one shot to stop someone. Often, the shooter has to shoot again and again while the assailant is still a threat.

If I were so moved by fear that I shot someone once, I wouldn't be feeling the compassion to go risk my life again to offer them my coat. It's hard to believe anyone would be expected to go from shooting an assailant to the next minute putting their life in danger trying to help them.

Depends are your intent.
If you are trying to kill someone or stop someone.
If you shot them in a limb is one thing but point blank into the heart area is another.
I think you would be curious after you just shot a young man as to his well being or at least his condition. This is a human being laying lifeless in the grass while the only thing GZ was concerned about was calling his wife.