George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #6

[AngelWings444]

I like the way this judge wants to know if the jury wants to go further. She is leaving the decision up to them. The jury deserves the respect the judge is showing them. Nice to see. JMO

 

[Chelly]

Jury responds that they will stay till 6 p.m. today even though can't finish up with this witness.

 

[ncgramma]

Florida Law protects TM's actions to defend himself and stand his ground from an unidentified stalker with a weapon. The mere act of stalking him at night in the rain would lead a reasonable 17 year old in today's society in FLORIDA that he could be in danger.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

He did not have to retreat from what he perceived as a threat continuing to follow him towards his family's home. He didn't. Whether or not he tried to disable/disarm/or knock out the person stalking him without any provoking physical contact is irrelevant according the the law. Seeing the weapon or reasonably fearing a person means to harm you justifies force and stand your ground.

I read that simply showing or pointing an unloaded gun in Florida carries a mandatory 3 years. I will go back and find the link if necessary.

I live in a gated community. I have five adult sons, 2 over 6'. They enter my home through the back sliding glass door, from a similar dog area such as this subdivision. IF they come during the day, the gates are open. IF they come at night, after dark they are closed and need a pin number to drive in or a pool key/gate key to come in the walk in gate, the outside is completely surrounded by very high cement walls. IF TM was walking in the subdivision he had to have a pin code or key. GZ had to know this.

IF they came over to visit after dark and walked back to my house from the front open parking spaces and my 30 year old hispanic neighbor across from me who is unfamiliar with them- stalked them from the front, as they walked in the gate, followed them down my sidewalk, and then approached them to ask them why they were in this complex.... yes, complaints are getting filed if one of my boys or husband doesn't sock the guy first. I would think instant creep. Keep in mind, in Florida and here in Cali. With gang and racial tensions, A Hispanic looking male in GZ age range doesn't exactly look safe and authoritative to TM either. IMO

GZ intiiated the course of events, by his suspicious and paranoid stalking. It is reasonable to believe he made a young boy in a unfamiliar area feel physically threatened and in danger. He approached TM on purpose with a weapon close enough to verbally communicate to him. I believe he tried to detain him when he would not do as he was told or answer questions he was asked. IMO

I keep reading he was the Neighborhood Watch Captain. Did I miss where someone appointed him as such. I thought it was determined he appointed himself and refused an offer to join LE neighborhood patrols etc. He was just a regular neighbor with no authority, no identification, no right to follow TM or shoot him. TM had every right to sock him in the face, and render him unable to continue to follow him or shoot him. He failed. Sadly.

Also, I read ( I will find the link if you make me) that he took Adderall for ADD. I am betting his dr also prescribed anti anxiety. I know my brother on Adderall was very mild, non hyper, focused, and didn't feel anything. Not happy, not sad, not anxious. That could explain his very level and matter of fact behaviors.

I am late for an appointment but just caught up and now probably behind again...

If you choose to use the law of self defense as the reason TM was beating on GZ, then you must also use it as the reason GZ shot TM. And that is the point many of us have been trying to make. GZ was wrongfully charged.

 

[polleypockets]

I get not going out after the gunshot but before??? When someone is yelling for help??? And here is something else that I think goes for George.. If indeed that sounded like a young kid for help?.. You bet your keister someone would have gone out there..... JMO

idk - imo i don't think any of these ppl would have gone out and help unless the heard and infant. maybe toddler or elementary school kid to go out and help, and imo from what i heard i think that is still in the maybe category

i don't think it helps or hurts with side, all it really does for me feel like i am losing my faith in umanity - imo :cry:

 

[AngelWings444]

I just have the ongoing wish..That Juan questioned Rachael Jeantel..I don't care which side...Just question her. I suspect that more info would have come out

Why? She was a kid who was brought into this horrible tragedy. To cause her more pain? To embarrass her further? She is not on trial here. JMO

 

[JudyBolton]

On cross, Serino admitting that there were no clear inconsistencies in GZ's interviews. JMO. OMO. MOO.

Why is that "Just Your Opinion" - it was clearly stated on the stand - under oath!!!

Serino asked to come up with inconsistencies and he says he can’t come up with any right now. O’Mara says you have had all this information for months to go over and study and you can’t come up with any. Is it possible that they don’t exist.

 

[ShadyLady]

Florida Law protects TM's actions to defend himself and stand his ground from an unidentified stalker with a weapon. The mere act of stalking him at night in the rain would lead a reasonable 17 year old in today's society in FLORIDA that he could be in danger.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

He did not have to retreat from what he perceived as a threat continuing to follow him towards his family's home. He didn't. Whether or not he tried to disable/disarm/or knock out the person stalking him without any provoking physical contact is irrelevant according the the law. Seeing the weapon or reasonably fearing a person means to harm you justifies force and stand your ground.

I read that simply showing or pointing an unloaded gun in Florida carries a mandatory 3 years. I will go back and find the link if necessary.

I live in a gated community. I have five adult sons, 2 over 6'. They enter my home through the back sliding glass door, from a similar dog area such as this subdivision. IF they come during the day, the gates are open. IF they come at night, after dark they are closed and need a pin number to drive in or a pool key/gate key to come in the walk in gate, the outside is completely surrounded by very high cement walls. IF TM was walking in the subdivision he had to have a pin code or key. GZ had to know this.

IF they came over to visit after dark and walked back to my house from the front open parking spaces and my 30 year old hispanic neighbor across from me who is unfamiliar with them- stalked them from the front, as they walked in the gate, followed them down my sidewalk, and then approached them to ask them why they were in this complex.... yes, complaints are getting filed if one of my boys or husband doesn't sock the guy first. I would think instant creep. Keep in mind, in Florida and here in Cali. With gang and racial tensions, A Hispanic looking male in GZ age range doesn't exactly look safe and authoritative to TM either. IMO

GZ intiiated the course of events, by his suspicious and paranoid stalking. It is reasonable to believe he made a young boy in a unfamiliar area feel physically threatened and in danger. He approached TM on purpose with a weapon close enough to verbally communicate to him. I believe he tried to detain him when he would not do as he was told or answer questions he was asked. IMO

I keep reading he was the Neighborhood Watch Captain. Did I miss where someone appointed him as such. I thought it was determined he appointed himself and refused an offer to join LE neighborhood patrols etc. He was just a regular neighbor with no authority, no identification, no right to follow TM or shoot him. TM had every right to sock him in the face, and render him unable to continue to follow him or shoot him. He failed. Sadly.

Also, I read ( I will find the link if you make me) that he took Adderall for ADD. I am betting his dr also prescribed anti anxiety. I know my brother on Adderall was very mild, non hyper, focused, and didn't feel anything. Not happy, not sad, not anxious. That could explain his very level and matter of fact behaviors.

I am late for an appointment but just caught up and now probably behind again...

I will not attempt to change your mind on anything. BUT Zimmerman was not stalking there is a legal definition of Stalking: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Stalking

Second, the association ASKED Zimmerman to be liaison to LE. He was NOT self appointed.

AND if Zimmerman HAD drawn his gun, I am sure Trayvon would not have been on top of him pounding him. There was at least 40-45 seconds on pounding...or more.

I also believe Trayvon left store 35 minutes before incident. Plenty of time to get home.

If I have teenage boys I would have made sure they knew about Neighborhood Watch, and taught them to respect authority, and maybe even introduced them to Zimmerman. But, hey...that's just me.

 

[Nymeria]

Witness reminds me of a rougher, huskier Chrisopher Lloyd (Think Crazy Reverend Jim from Taxi days....)
It's the eyes!

 

[gxm]

So a person who kills someone and claims it's self defense shouldn't be looked into? Just take the person's word it's self defense?

No one has said it shouldn't be investigated. It was investigated. There was no evidence to contradict GZ's story. There is still no evidence to contradict GZ's story. This case should never have gone to trial and if AC hadn't bypassed a Grand Jury it probably wouldn't have. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[Mahouston69]

If Martin were so afraid of the 'stalker' why didn't Martin call 911 and report it???? If Martin thought the "stalker" could be dangerous and armed common sense says there is NO WAY a sensible person would run over initiate an attack in public, in my opinion.

We know he had a phone and he was apparently talking on it the whole time.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0776/0776.html

The law says He did not have to retreat from what he perceived as a threat continuing to follow him towards his family's home

 

[PaperDoll]

No one has said it shouldn't be investigated. It was investigated. There was no evidence to contradict GZ's story. There is still no evidence to contradict GZ's story. This case should never have gone to trial and if AC hadn't bypassed a Grand Jury it probably wouldn't have. JMO. OMO. MOO.

Let the Jury decide as they should :twocents:

 

[Zuri]

I know someone who had their head pounded into a hardwood floor, fighting for their life and their injuries were horrible. Marks all over. Abrasions all over their neck, head, cheeks from the hands of their attacker. Immediate bruising that lasted for a couple of weeks. Stitches needed in the head, concussion. Black eyes. IMO - GZ did not ever have his head pounded on anything! I haven't believed it from day one.

This is exactly what has me puzzled. I am assuming GZ was not a passive participant in this altercation. I would have expected GZ to complain of neck/shoulder pain when he sought medical attention. His injuries, IMO, look more consistent to those sustained in a fight or struggle. The injuries are not consistent with someone's head being pounded on cement.

I have not heard all of GZ statements. Has GZ stated what he did to fight back? Punches, knee to the groin of TM, biting of TM hands(when covering his mouth), extrication from TM? I can't imagine GZ just laid there allowing himself to be beaten up. :seeya:

 

[gxm]

Why is that "Just Your Opinion" - it was clearly stated on the stand - under oath!!!

Serino asked to come up with inconsistencies and he says he can’t come up with any right now. O’Mara says you have had all this information for months to go over and study and you can’t come up with any. Is it possible that they don’t exist.

Just my response to members who make a big deal about it. It's my way of saying "you may have heard it differently but this is my take on what was said." I'm not trying to be vague, just trying to play by the rules.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

BBM -- My very dear PrincessSezMe, no one here thinks TM deserved this fate. But many do feel that charging GZ with murder 2 and/or manslaughter was wrong too.

I know that ncgramma, but many have said that this wouldn't have happened if TM hadn't "attacked" GZ. I think it wouldn't have happened if GZ knew where to keep his butt.....which was in his car. That is all personal opinion though, and my point is that it has yet to come out, IMO, whether or not that "attack" justified pulling a gun and killing another person. Until then I view TM as the victim here. MOO. :seeya:

 

[popsicle]

Why? She was a kid who was brought into this horrible tragedy. To cause her more pain? To embarrass her further? She is not on trial here. JMO

She is an adult. An adult when this happened and an adult now. jmo

 

[gxm]

Let the Jury decide as they should :twocents:

What about the Grand Jury? Shouldn't they have decided? Bypassing the GJ was egregious IMO. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[polleypockets]

If you choose to use the law of self defense as the reason TM was beating on GZ, then you must also use it as the reason GZ shot TM. And that is the point many of us have been trying to make. GZ was wrongfully charged.

from what i read last night nite florida statutes, in don't think so, cuz it says that its the instigator that is guilty, but if, and imo of trayvon felt he was in eminent danger then by the statutes he was defending himself 0 so from what i understand, trayvon was allowed to defend himself and GZ can't claim not guilty and use self defense because he was the person who provoked the situation - imo

Florida Cases Section 776.041: Person Who "Initially Provoked" Incident May Not Claim Self Defense Section 776.041

 

[Isabelle]

The neighbors saw what appeared to be fight or assault between two men. The neighbors didn't recognize EITHER man. It was dark. They (the neighbors hearing this) obviously did NOT have weapons.

What I don't get is.....Martin was a 17 year old football player....he was no doubt VERY fast and plenty strong.

Zimmerman is a 30 year old overweight and obviously not that athletic guy.

Martin was already near his own home. If Martin had wanted to AVOID a conflict with this "creepy ___ _____" that may be a rapist he could have simply sprinted and been gone. Either back to his house or somewhere else.

If Martin had NOT wanted to confront Zimmerman I just don't see how it could have happened. There is simply no way Zimmerman could have caught up to Martin especially since Martin was aware of him.

If Trayvon did run, would GZ have followed him? IMO, most likely.

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

Why? She was a kid who was brought into this horrible tragedy. To cause her more pain? To embarrass her further? She is not on trial here. JMO

No no no not @ all to shame, embarrass..To get information. I found the testimony long, difficult, and it was obvious Ms Jeantel didn;t want to be there. But then again, she was an important witness. and information is needed.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

idk - imo i don't think any of these ppl would have gone out and help unless the heard and infant. maybe toddler or elementary school kid to go out and help, and imo from what i heard i think that is still in the maybe category

i don't think it helps or hurts with side, all it really does for me feel like i am losing my faith in umanity - imo :cry:

The thing is everyone keeps saying he was a young kid..A young kid... He was nearly an adult. He had an adult body and voice.

I believe that GZ was the one yelling.. But I still find it so sad that no one went out to really help. At least approach them and yell. I bet it two men showed up together it would have been over in a few minutes.

But I think you are right, If someone thought there was a young kid out there, Someone would have gone out. Someone would have done something.. IMO.