George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #7

[Horace Finklestein]

Not meaning to be snarky here either, but if it is okay to shoot someone who punches you in the face or pounds your head on the sidewalk, there are going to be a lot more dead people - and a good deal of them will be intimately related with the shooter. :moo: IMO but also based on crime statistics
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4557

Violent Victimization Committed By Strangers, 1993-2010
Erika Harrell, Ph.D.

December 11, 2012 NCJ 239424

Presents findings on the rates and levels of violent victimization committed by offenders who were strangers to the victims, including homicide, rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault. The report presents annual trends and compares changes across three 6-year periods in the incidence and type of violence committed by strangers from 1993 through 2010. It describes the characteristics of victims and circumstances of the violent crime. The nonfatal violent victimization estimates were developed from the Bureau of Justice Statistics' National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which collects information on nonfatal crimes, reported and not reported to the police, against persons age 12 or older from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households. The homicide data are from the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports (SHR) for 1993 through 2008.

Highlights:

In 2010, strangers committed about 38% of nonfatal violent crimes, including rape/sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault.
In 2005-10, about 10% of violent victimizations committed by strangers involved a firearm, compared to 5% committed by offenders known to the victim.
From 1993 to 2008, among homicides reported to the FBI for which the victim-offender relationship was known, between 21% and 27% of homicides were committed by strangers and between 73% and 79% were committed by offenders known to the victims.

Or maybe there'll be a lot fewer people ready to slam heads into concrete?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IMHO, the trial for M2 hinges on a key factor - that Z killed TM out of fear for his own life.

First, the evidence - injuries were not at all life-threatening or serious enough to require a visit to the hospital, Z was able to walk around unassisted and talked coherently after this "lethal beating".

This shows that physically and in reality, Z was not in any danger that night. I know some have argued that the injuries might not LOOK serious but could be in fact serious, but this would be conjecture and speculation, and needs to be backed up by medical documentation that indicates that the injuries were much worse than they appeared.

The argument - that it didn't matter if Z was actually in physical danger, if he acted out of a belief in his own physical danger - would then be valid if the following were true:

1. The fight was prolonged even if the physical blows were minor. However, the fight lasted under 2 minutes, i.e. 2 minutes of light blows (since the injuries sustained indicated they were light blows). This was a very short fight.

2. Z himself was physically very much inferior to TM.

Z practiced MMA 3 times a week at that time, surely he was in relatively good shape ( as evident in his photos and videos from that night) and has been in fights far longer than 2 minutes during his training. In other words, he was TRAINING TO FIGHT, so a 2 minutes fight consisting of light blows could not have been too much to endure.

3. Z is easily terrified and fearful.

As the volunteer Captain of the NW, Z logically cannot be someone who is easily spooked or afraid for his own life if he has been following burglars and suspects at night, Most of all, Z was packing a lethal weapon that could kill.

IMHO, Z is more like a trained fighter pitbull than a cowering chihuahua.

Since his injuries were proven to be minor, I can't think of any other reasons that would cause Z to fear for his life there and then that could cause him to use his lethal weapon to kill TM.

Another issue that causes me consternation is the rampant speculation that TM COULD be a someday if not that fateful evening that ended his life, with an iced tea in his pocket and a bag of skittles he was buying for the younger child he was minding. Does this imply that since TM *MIGHT* be a someday he therefore deserved somehow to be viewed under the lens today as a potential ?

I just can't describe how this sends chills down my spine...

My own two cents.

BBM, The police told him not to go, If I remember the evidence EMT's wanted to take him in and he saw a dr the next day who was concerned about a broken nose. It does not have to be life threatening injuries to protect your self. IF he had life threatening injuries he most likely would be dead. It is his right to protect himself and his person FROM being killed.

All that matters is did GZ have a reasonable assumption that his life was in jeopardy. Alone in the dark, calling for help, No one coming, I think he did. The state has not proved anything different yet..

OMO.

Still waiting...

 

[Horace Finklestein]

IMO, Mr Osterman is full of literary license and definitely using emotion and further embellishment. Rather than repeating what GZ told him, he adds his personal commentary as to his own experience. For reference please refer to Mr Osterman's testimony.

I find him infinitely more credible than Dee Dee, jmo

 

[popsicle]

IMHO, the trial for M2 hinges on a key factor - that Z killed TM out of fear for his own life.


My own two cents.

sbm

Or great bodily harm. jmo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am kind of discounting this testimony. To me he wants to help GZ just as RJ wanted to help TM's case.

I am listening for facts but hear more slant and more confusion...

He was not there, so based on hearsay, For me he is not terribly important. OMO

 

[ncgramma]

Just reading this discussion, I'm reminded of a recent incident where, wasn't it a kid who slugged someone just after a sporting event/game, one slug, and the guy died? And then there is always the 'hockey dad' who beat the coach guy at a rink in Boston, was it, while the cops were in route.

Yes, soccer matches, baseball games, football games, coaches and parents, all in the news. It's unbelievable - inconceivable - to me! What is wrong with people!

 

[DIBSY]

In my opinion LE or anyone in an authoratative role can get permission from a kid (especially one who is doing nothing wrong) fairly easy. Sadly, in these times we're in, that's becoming true for adults as well. The Fourth Amendment's protection is disappearing fast as people sort themselves into an "us" vs "them" mentality. And this case is a good example of this.

GZ, and many others living in these gated communities, believe that everone locked inside with them are good; outsiders who get into their little compounds MUST be the cause of whatever bad things happen. In reality these gated-residents have just as much domestic violence, child abuse, and overall fraudulent activity going on within the confines of their homes as do the general population.

George's address on his driver's license did not match up with where he lived so how long did he live there? The law gives limited time to get that change made in the system. An oversight or an attempt to hide his whereabouts? George mosies along looking into his neighbors' windows; he decides whose garage door is left open when no one is home; he knows who keeps their doors locked and who doesn't. A simple invasion of privacy or a peeping Tom? And George goes grocery shopping with a fully loaded 9mm pistol in an unsecured holster with a round in the chamber and the safety off. Just going out for some milk and eggs or a tragedy waiting to happen?

Just thinking out loud to myself and anybody else who can hear me.

Very informative and reasonable..pure logic! Thanks!
I hope the Jury knows that George Zimmerman's father, Robert Z. is a retired Judge Magistrate in Florida and has already written a book re his son's innocence!!! For in my considered view, it goes a long long way in explaining how respectfully GZ has been handled and why he originally got off Scot Free for this brutal killing. IMO

 

[nnglas]

Very informative and reasonable..pure logic! Thanks!
I hope the Jury knows that George Zimmerman's father, Robert Z. is a retired Judge Magistrate in Florida and has already written a book re his son's innocence!!! For in my considered view, it goes a long long way in explaining how respectfully GZ has been handled and why he originally got off Scot Free for this brutal killing. IMO

Lol

IMO you should duck now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DIBSY]

suggested by whom?

Posters, tv pundits, journalists et al.IMO

 

[legalmania]

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2013/05/trayvon-martin-character-evidence-or-character-assassination/


Good link to information on Florida law regarding the conduct admissibility, etc. of both involved.

Don West said that the case needs to stay in the 5 to 7 minutes where the crime took place. IMO it is horrible to denigrate a victim.

 

[DIBSY]

Looks like Zimmerman is nodding off to sleep during the non-riveting testimony of his best pal...who knew him four years prior to the killing and seems to have been rehearsed syllable by letter. IMO

 

[Just K]

Mr Osterman cannot help but add his own speculation and opinion as opposed to recounting what GZ stated to Osterman.

 

[TexMex]

IMO
And the State called this guy, why??

They got very little and on cross O'Mara got lots in....wow

IMO

 

[Just K]

Why no objection...to the fact that MR O has not been determined to be an expert.

 

[popsicle]

Very informative and reasonable..pure logic! Thanks!
I hope the Jury knows that George Zimmerman's father, Robert Z. is a retired Judge Magistrate in Florida and has already written a book re his son's innocence!!! For in my considered view, it goes a long long way in explaining how respectfully GZ has been handled and why he originally got off Scot Free for this brutal killing. IMO

If you looked it up you would find it was Virginia and not FL. Also, it has no bearing on this case. imo

 

[Donnareit]

Or maybe there'll be a lot fewer people ready to slam heads into concrete?

That's logical, ok. But, naw. As long as we keep serving booze at sporting events and parties, IMO there will continue to be an abundant supply of those folks.
:truce:

 

[DIBSY]

Don West said that the case needs to stay in the 5 to 7 minutes where the crime took place. IMO it is horrible to denigrate a victim.

Thank you kindly!!
Indeed it is, very ugly and inflammatory, just as when the white supremist hacked into Trayvon Benjamin Martin's social acounts and even had other young AA kids pose in aggressive stances to try and reflect badly on Matin's character after he was murdered. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/white-supremacist-trayvon-martin-email_n_1389584.html

IMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

IMO
And the State called this guy, why??

They got very little and on cross O'Mara got lots in....wow

IMO

I'm not sure how this witness helped the prosecution myself.

 

[ncgramma]

Posters, tv pundits, journalists et al.IMO

And their opinions are important why?

 

[missmazzy]

Very informative and reasonable..pure logic! Thanks!
I hope the Jury knows that George Zimmerman's father, Robert Z. is a retired Judge Magistrate in Florida and has already written a book re his son's innocence!!! For in my considered view, it goes a long long way in explaining how respectfully GZ has been handled and why he originally got off Scot Free for this brutal killing. IMO

Oh boy..you just reminded me of Joran VanDersloot (not a good thing).