George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #7

[sacrablue]

Actually Non emergency had no power to stop GZ.

As stated on the stand.

This argument holds no water. Before someone hands you a gun to shoot people, I would highly recommend you understand the protocol of law enforcement. There is a well known reason why non emergency can not order. I believe most everyone understands why, even people with no gun permit IMO.

 

[Donnareit]

IMO, If Z's claim he feared for his life = Evidence that Z feared for his life, then there's no need for a trial, in fact for any trial anywhere where a stranger shoots another without eye witnesses.

Thankfully, the laws do not work this way or anyone can bring a gun to any fight and get away with murder.

Therefore the trial is to establish if it was *LIKELY* that Z should have feared for his life to justify shooting an unarmed pedestrian he tussled with.

If he shot without justification, then that's reckless killing/murder 2.

The likelihood of feeling fear for one's life varies according to the person, a 17 yr old girl, a child, an elderly, a disabled person would all feel fear at different degrees from Z.

The clearest evidence is of course serious injuries or bodily harm that indicate there is enough cause to fear for one's life. In the absence of such, psychological fear must be proven, and this fear MUST be reasonably established, eg. prolonged losing fight, isolated place with no possibility of 3rd party assistance or police help, opponent wielding a weapon, physical inferiority, mental weakness, etc.

There must be certain criteria to support the defense of "fear for one's life", otherwise, anyone can bring a gun to any fight and get away with murder.

IMHO.

:goodpost:
Thanks for this post. IMO the right to a fair trial is essential to our social contract in a democracy. And I believe this right extends to the aggrieved as well as the accused.

 

[costalpilot]

well if the old adage that you are known by the friends you keep means anything, I offer the friends of TM vs GZ.

who is the most believable?
who is the jury most likely to believe.

not even close.

 

[qwerty2013]

Again, the "kid" was a high school football player, IMO someone GZ couldn't overpower OR catch in a foot race.

When is somebody going to explain why TM couldn't have run back to the apartment?

How would you know if he did or did not try to get back? Going by RJ's testimony, he was on his way back to hand Chad the skittles. Going by Z-911 call, at one point, TM was running away. He could have tried to get home and was stopped by Z, tussled with, and then shot. Remember, TM isn't here to tell his side of the story.

I would strictly go by evidence, not Z's own words, especially when he NEEDS to tell it a certain way for his own defense.

:twocents:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

This argument holds no water. Before someone hands you a gun to shoot people, I would highly recommend you understand the protocol of law enforcement. There is a well known reason why non emergency can not order. I believe most everyone understands why, even people with no gun permit IMO.

Who handed GZ a gun to "go shoot people"? I don't get what you mean? And civilians aren't LE imo

 

[Love Never Fails]

FYI/OT -- Casey Anthony gets mixed ruling from bankruptcy judge
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...y-anthony-bankruptcy-20130702,0,2317948.story

Hope TX Equusearch files new claim and gets every penny from that witch.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This argument holds no water. Before someone hands you a gun to shoot people, I would highly recommend you understand the protocol of law enforcement. There is a well known reason why non emergency can not order. I believe most everyone understands why, even people with no gun permit IMO.

He took the course to get a gun. He took the course for NW. This is a guy who did things by the book.

EVEN 911 can not order you to do anything. It is a liability for them as spoken from the stand.

Im sorry but your post has nothing to do with the facts in evidence. No one hands anyone a gun to shoot people. But people do have the right to shoot to defend themselves. That is the law..
OMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

well if the old adage that you are known by the friends you keep means anything, I offer the friends of TM vs GZ.

who is the most believable?
who is the jury most likely to believe.

not even close.

Dee Dee?

 

[nnglas]

And some people want to be something and can not.. I wanted to do Yoga, tried and failed. So to me, just because someone took a few classes does not mean he is good at it.. OMO

Question. Wasn't it 5 mos, 3 times a week? That is not a couple of classes.


IMO


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[AngelWings444]

suggested by whom?

Suggested by a lot of WS members who do not believe GZ is telling the entire truth. Suggested by others who don't believe his injuries match GZ's story that he was punched 30 times and had his head beaten into the concrete. Suggested by others here who have seen the autopsy report and there are no cuts to Trayvon's hands.

IMO - GZ's injuries do not match his story. The smothering, lack of blood, injuries gone the next day, concrete not even being close to the "fight", GZ stating he went down on the first punch etc... I could go on for days but haven't had enough coffee. :facepalm:

We all have different views and it's ok to respectfully disagree. IMO

 

[DIBSY]

What a stretch, with GZ's bf declaring like a medical expert how long a person could speak after being shot....

Now, since the Prosecution didn't object to that ridiculous WAG, it still looks like they are cooperating with the defense to free Zimmerman. IMO

Am I implying conspiracy? Of course...they didn't want this trial and since they were obliged to hold it, they will govern the outcome to coincide with their first ploy of letting him off, Scott Free. IMO JMO MOO

It's a dedgum shame the people of Florida have to pay for this charade. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yet, ScarletScarpetta, my personal reasons for being conviced GZ is dishonest in his recollections is far different. Mine as I have outlined here, such as him standing dirctly in front of a street number ( they showed it visually in court this morning ) and claiming he had to keepon following TM in order to F I N D a street number, simply won't wash...my observation about his pal's testimony is entirely different and not as specific as the dozens of contradicions in Zimmerman's rambling statements. I am merely stating that this witness sounds well rehearsed because his terms are often mimicing the exact vocabulary of his friend.IMO

So I am using actual evidence, ie video of the street number and many other methods, to base my views on. IMO

Thanks for clarifying because it seemed it was solely based on other opinions as posted in the pp..

OMO

 

[costalpilot]

What I don't understand is that GZ says that he's getting his head pounded on the concrete sidewalk and then shoots TM, but his body is laying over in the grass away from the sidewalk.

Can anyone explain this to me? TIA

because he threw TM off him after he shot him, as he explained, and makes perfect sense.

 

[sacrablue]

What I don't understand is that GZ says that he's getting his head pounded on the concrete sidewalk and then shoots TM, but his body is laying over in the grass away from the sidewalk.

Can anyone explain this to me? TIA

Good point, TM's final resting spot was not very close to the deadly sidewalk.

 

[legalmania]

Let me suggest that there is a significant difference in ability between an older, overweight man and a young, fit football player in terms of how well (or how quickly) this "training" will be mastered.

IMO maybe he shouldn't have been following someone at night at a distance so close that he couldn't get away.

 

[ncgramma]

If George wanted to be a MMA fighter I don't understand how he didn't learn how to take and give punches. My son is a sparring partner for MMA fighters and even with equipment on, he gets hit in the face, he gets kicked in all kinds of places, he's gotten a broken nose or two, he just laughs if off. IMO even if GZ was a neighborhood watch guy he should have taken defensive fighting courses. IMO if you want to be a fighter you better learn to fight.

I apoloogize for not being able to find the link. I've read that GZ's trainer (if that's the right word) said GZ never graduated from the punching bag and he considered him "soft". Apparently GZ was working on aerobic exercise rather than pursuing MMA training as a fighter.

 

[Love Never Fails]

And some people want to be something and can not.. I wanted to do Yoga, tried and failed. So to me, just because someone took a few classes does not mean he is good at it.. OMO

ITA.

These discussions are getting heated again. Both sides are equally passionate. The evidence so far supports self defense. Hope the jurors base their vote on the facts and not emotions/race/political pressure.

 

[qwerty2013]

:goodpost:
Thanks for this post. IMO the right to a fair trial is essential to our social contract in a democracy. And I believe this right extends to the aggrieved as well as the accused.

Yes, I completely agree. This is what the laws are there for, to ensure justice and fairness for BOTH sides!:cheers:

If the evidence presented are plainly indicative of a strong likelihood that Z SHOULD fear for his life when he shot TM, then of course he should be exonerated.


So far, I have not seen any, apart from his own testimony, which is of course supporting his defense. IMO.

 

[Donnareit]

I don't think so. Not sure. I think if it's a settlement, they just got a huge check without having to go to trial. jmo.

The actuaries make these decisions based on what is prudent from a financial POV. If somebody falls on the sidewalk or your dog bites them, you file a claim. That's why I have a homeowner's policy with liability coverage. :twocents:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Question. Wasn't it 5 mos, 3 times a week? That is not a couple of classes.


IMO


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Even so.. I took piano for 8 years... Wanna hear me play???

Really you don't.. I can play 3 songs awesome.. the rest, not so much..

My feeling is that even with this training, it goes for GZ's case..

If he was well trained he could have put a beat down on TM. HE didn't. He did not try to hurt him. I think the evidence shows he was just trying to keep him from hurting him badly until police arrived. And then when he felt like his head was going to explode he shot.

This works for me with SD.

OMO