George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion Thread #8

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The state does not have the impossible job you assign them. Zimmerman killed Martin. GZ is claiming that he had the legal right to kill this young man because he had no choice. He has described a set of events leading to this decision.

It is the state's job to show that Zimmerman's story is questionable.

If, at any point, a member of the jury finds themselves doubting Zimmerman's version of events they should properly find him guilty. IMO

I think that would work with Manslaughter.. Not Murder 2. they have to prove the elements of Murder 2.

I agree that if it was a charge of only Manslaughter, that is something the Jury could do just believing stories.. But to go for Murder2, they have to prove to the jury that GZ was willful in his act.. that he went out there looking for TM and HATED him. Wanted him dead..


That is different than negligence that lead to a death like Manslaughter.

They have not proved Murder2 to me yet.

OMO

 

[Tulessa]

Lets keep our heads!!

Remember to post it is MOO, JMO, Or IMO...

And remember that you don't have to reply to every post.. Sometimes it is just better to move on!

WE can do it!! Let's make the mods jobs easier!!

Thanks guys! I am loving going through the Trial with y'all!!!


OMO

Awesome post! Thank you! :seeya:

 

[Jane Jetson]

GZ, IIRC said while in the car that he ran, then said after he was following him, he's running again. This is twice now that TM ran from GZ. Once when GZ was in the car, 2nd when GZ was following him. This is what I picked up when listening to the call. I don't want to go back and listen again..lol.. I've heard it so many times but I hope I'm correct

I know what you mean. We're heard these so many times. But we're all quite dedicated to our positions and digging deep for the truth...imo.

Thinking about it, it may be that GZ saw TM running. Then, when the dispatcher said "Let me know where he's going," George moved between the houses, and TM had stopped there, perhaps, I guess you could say in the "backyards" area that you might find in a development such as this.

Then, when Mr. Martin again saw Mr. Zimmerman, TM started running again.

That's just a possible scenario that could account for the running twice, which, as you point out, is quite rememberable. :moo:

 

[JudyBolton]

His past has nothing to do with his murder..ALL juvenile records are sealed but it has been established that he had no police record whatsoever

There is a lot more there than at first glance. Google Captain Hurley and TM - the Miami Herald did a huge investigation on all of this....

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 782.04(2). Second degree murder.—

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life[.]

Just to post what FL law says..

 

[Chris_Texas]

Actually it is. They need to prove that GZ went after TM with malice and wanted him dead.

They have to prove MURDER 2.

OMO.

Would that not be premeditated murder? IMO

 

[iluvmua]

Have TM's parents, Ben Crump etc. taken the stand yet?

And when is the state expected to rest?

 

[missmazzy]

One of George's profs was testifying via Skype. On direct, a few people called the Skype number, which was conveniently broadcast via the live feed and the pop ups showed on the screen in court. Then, after the State was done and it was time for the defense's cross, people kept calling the witness on Skype over and over until the Court finally had to shut it down.

I watched the video. At first, it was the same person, then joined by "Marcus".
Once the defense started, the Skype gates opened up and the calls just didn't stop. It was quite the show.

 

[HMSHoney24]

Suspensions don't mean anything, you could be suspended for chronic tardies to class. It no way shape or form implies that he was a violent "" or out of control child. If so I'm sure he'd have a juvenile record by the age of 17. No one is making him out to be a lilly but some posters are talking about him as if he were some type of hood gangbanging dude. NOT THE CASE. He was a regular teenager who, like every single teenager on this planet, got into a little trouble. Name me one perfect teenager and I'll make you the Queen of England.

Whayt gets me is how Zimmerman can have this record of physical violence (abusing a gf, fighting a police officer, throwing a lady when he was working as a bouncer) but that's okay. Somehow Zimmerman's proven record makes him a meek and mild person but people want to paint trayvon as vioent from nominal teenage activity.

Is this your opinion regarding TM or do you have links to support the above BBM?

 

[amyg_momtothree]

The state does not have the impossible job you assign them. Zimmerman killed Martin. GZ is claiming that he had the legal right to kill this young man because he had no choice. He has described a set of events leading to this decision.

It is the state's job to show that Zimmerman's story is questionable.

If, at any point, a member of the jury finds themselves doubting Zimmerman's version of events they should properly find him guilty. IMO

So what you are saying is he is guilty until proven innocent?

 

[iluvmua]

Would that not be premeditated murder? IMO

2nd degree? IMO, that would be 1st degree

 

[Chris_Texas]

In my opinion, you have no idea whether or not George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin. He just saw Mr. Martin, according to GZ's account, acting suspiciously in a neighborhood George had promised to protect, imo. He was then viciously attacked by TM, in my opinion, and had no choice but to be seriously injured or die, or protect himself. IMO.

Have we not repeatedly heard that TM matched the profile of some of the people burgling this complex?

I am not claiming that GZ is a racist, but in our quest to avoid injecting race as a motivation into this crime (which I believe is a great goal) we should not ignore the self-evident racial aspects which do exist.

 

[missmazzy]

He (MO'M) may be a good lawyer, but I just can't get past the undertaker vibe he gives off :scared:
I feel like he wants to direct me to slumber room 3....

*JUST MOO*

Please stop profiling "undertakers" (actually, funeral directors). My husband's family has been in the business 100+ years and I can assure you, none of them looks like MOM. In fact, one of my brothers in law is out and out gorgeous (even better looking an our Kevin Costner sound alike prosecutor). :rockon:

 

[DIBSY]

why didn't George just wait for the police? had he stayed in his truck in the first place we would not be here. George has a history of violence against a federal officer and against a girlfriend. can't find the link but it is true. no convictions I suspect because his father was a magistrate. For me George was a time bomb waiting to go off. he was a cop wannabe and on that fateful night, sadly for Trayvon Martin, George decided he was up to no good and pursued him and shot him dead. we can't know exactly what happened when those two met up of course but so far George has given several different versions of what happened and on the Hannity show he said he would do nothing different and Trayvon's death was "God's Plan". hmmm

Makes you shudder in disbelief and horror!! God's plan an innocent boy walking home with nothing but legal items on him, should be shot dead by this individual I deem a " fiend" since I read about him throwing that woman when he was an under the table scecurity guard for illegal parties. God's plan!??!!? IMO I do not think any of GZ's actions he can attribute to God, quite the opposite. As one commentator says, " Dancing with the devil." IMO
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ard-aggressive-ex-co-worker-article-1.1053223
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...trayvon-martin-murder-trial-article-1.1388147

GZ was rejected as Policeman .. he was a desperate wannabe, as we have seen in testimony. IMO

 

[Chris_Texas]

A regular teenager? Hope not!!!! None of my four kids were suspended three times. And his records are sealed? I think he was the aggressor and it is a shame the defense cannot bring out his history.

History works both ways. GZ's history would hang him with this jury. IMO

 

[fran]

Attention Please!

This is a trial to determine if the incident that took TM's life was 'murder,' or 'self-defense.' Accordingly, please do not type that it 'was' or 'is' murder, but 'alleged murder.' Just like we aren't allowed to refer to someone as a 'murderer' while they're on trial, AFTER the trial, they COULD be labeled as such. kwim?

Please remember to attack the post and not the poster and do not talk about your fellow posters while responding to another poster.


Thanks,
fran

 

[PaperDoll]

Wouldn't/couldn't GZ reasonably assume that his neighbor who yelled out was actually witnessing the fight? Would GZ shoot someone in front of this known witness if NOT in self defense? And...

When GZ gave his statement, it wouldn't be a far reach to think that he didn't have several witness' that saw the WHOLE encounter.

He shot TM, yes, we all know that but I think TM saw the gun before GZ said he did, and there was a struggle. I don't think TM wanted to be shot and was going to do what he could to keep from getting to that point. GZ also knew it was dark out and you can't see everything going on otherwise he would have seen the "punch in the nose" from TM. He said he didn't see it coming because it was dark.

 

[ShadyLady]

I also live in a townhouse community. I can guarantee you that if a tall male of any color was standing in a downpour of rain in the dark outside my home or my neighbor's home - whether wearing a hoodie or not - I would find it to be suspicious. Period.

This young man had a half hour of time between the video at the 7-11 and the end of the phone call with "Dee Dee" aka "Diamond Eugene" aka "Rachel".
He had PLENTY of time to have returned to the home where he was staying.
What was he doing during that time? Standing around outside in a neighborhood in the rain talking on a cell phone? Why?

Anyone who does NOT find this to be at least strange, if not suspicious, doesn't live in an area where break-ins are occurring and where a neighborhood Crime Watch has been established. You learn to keep your eye on strange-looking events and to report them. This would be one of them.

I think Rachel is STILL not telling the full story. And she likely never will. Plus, I would be appalled if I learned my 17 yr. old son was exchanging hundreds of texts and spending hours on the phone with this woman! And yes, she was and is a woman, not a girl.

Oh, and "creepy ass cracker" is NOT a racial slur? It was obvious to me that this obviously highly under-educated woman did NOT immediately understand the term "culture" when asked if the term "cracker" was used regularly within her culture. I then thought that she very well doesn't really know what is and is not a racial slur. Unless it is coming from white to black.

I think it is a shame someone died. But I do not believe George Zimmerman hunted him down and deliberately killed him. I think Trayvon did attack him. As he has done in the past - but the jury won't hear about that.

Also, there was one very important - to me - piece of evidence. That is that the location of the hole in Trayvon's shirt proves that the gun was NOT pressed against his chest when the gun was fired. The shirt was several inches away from his chest, indicating he was leaning OVER George at the moment of the shot.

RE: "Is there a link, please to Rachel Jeantel saying exactly " it was just a fight
", please?"

You can go to youtube and enter "George Zimmerman trial", then click onto and watch all of her testimony. She said this several times.

Bumped up.

Pretty much agree with your whole post. And let me say one more thing....there have been several times I have called LE on "white" suspicious teens. And there are two (white) teens that live close to me that were charged with breaking into a church. Suspicion can be color blind. I wish we had a Neighborhood Watch in my current community. But after this case, I am sure less people will want to get involved.

 

[Lovelymountains]

Let me remind you that there is no law against following someone.

IF Trayvon knew about Neighborhood Watch he might not have run, and then jumped and punched Zimmerman.

No, there is NO LAW YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT Neighborhood Watches. JUST common sense.

Yes, and conversely, NW IMO does not condone carrying a loaded gun while "Watching" nor does it recommend following and confronting someone you suspect of a crime. In fact, IMO, I don't think NW volunteers are taught to do anything other than report suspecious activity to police and then wait for LE to handle it. Certainly it does not recommend that you shoot and kill someone you have determined to be suspicious. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Would that not be premeditated murder? IMO

No. I don't mean planned his death.. But they are trying to prove that he had ill will towards TM. So that they can lay the ground work for M2. They have to prove that he had some intentions toward TM.

The the statue says a depraved mind regardless of human life..

That is not what we have here. Not even close.

We have a collision of two people. It went wrong but it was not an act of someone who wanted to kill someone..
OMO