George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion Thread 9 (For Friday)

[missmazzy]

What in the world is in the notes????

Whatever it is, the defense has them now. I have watched loads of trials and have never seen someone read word for word from their notes. A witness tried it in the JA case, and Juan went after them.

 

[gracielee]

ITA. West is a saint for what he has to put up with. Being constantly disrespected, witnesses barking nonsense at him about not wanting to testify, this ME trying to run roughshod over him and coming across as difficult an bizarre, a seething judge who seems irritated that the defense is bothering to even present a defense. How long till FL does away with trials all together lol IMO.

In all the trials I have followed I have NEVER seen anything like this! This witness is the most arrogant, argumentative, unresponsive, and the judge is allowing him to get away with way more then I have ever seen. Any *notes* brought into the courtroom by *any* witness are subject to review by attorney's, period. And if I'm not mistaken, this judge *should have* made them a part of the trial record, rather than saying 'they would be destroyed afterwards.'

 

[William N]

ITA. West is a saint for what he has to put up with. Being constantly disrespected, witnesses barking nonsense at him about not wanting to testify, this ME trying to run roughshod over him and coming across as difficult an bizarre, a seething judge who seems irritated that the defense is bothering to even present a defense. How long till FL does away with trials all together lol IMO.

Yes, and IMO this prosecution is strictly for political reasons.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

The ME had testified before according to him. Well, I'd never no that. If I thought he was believable/knowledgable in the beginning, he lost me when he said Trayvon couldn't have moved because in the autopsy he did three weeks ago...!!! WTH?

Then he got arrogant with the attorney, became stubborn about answering questions, and refused to let them see his notes!

And on and on. Oh my. I don't see him as an efficient ME.

This ME must be related to Cindy A. Sheeesh.

IMO

 

[PaperDoll]

Under Florida law, he is acting in self defense and they cannot punish someone who is acting according to the law.

I understand you want him held accountable for his actions.

JMO

We can't just punish someone because people think "well, they should have not done that" so they must pay for what they did. Thank God the system does not work like that.

I'm sorry but people need to be held accountable for their actions if it caused the death of another, IMO. This can't be a "ooops, my bad, I shouldn't have done that" type thing, this caused the death of a teen who didn't deserve this, nor his family. If I went out and started a fight with someone and I ended up getting my butt kicked and had to kill in order to defend myself, shouldn't I be responsible for my actions? I may be
exaggerating this a bit to make a point.

 

[gracielee]

He just told them they can't have copies of his notes. OMG. This guy is amazing. IMO. I can't figure out if this helps the state or defense.

IMO, this can't help but *help* the defense because this ME is so out of order both in his attitude and the fact that he brought *personal notes* into the court room to use in his testimony. Didn't the prosecution prep their witness?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No, this is misunderstood. There is electrical activity in the brain, yes, so he could feel pain -- but with his heart pretty much blown up by the shot, he had no blood flow/circulation, which is necessary to move. IMO, though it is ultimately an issue of scientific fact rather than opinion.

If the brain is alive, I don't see how this is impossible. I am researching it now but I know that I have heard of it happening before in cases. Maybe not 10 mins after while still alive but I bet a minute or two is possible..

I just don't see the impossibility of it yet..

OMO

 

[DIBSY]

This is crazy, IMO. those notes need to be admitted. He thinks he's the judge, giving orders. He must be a little tyrant in his lab, IMO.

Actually it is the Autopsy Report that must be public...and it is...to the pertinent people...but the ME's private notes are not public property.IMO
DW is quoting from the Autopsy Report....he doesn't need the notes...The ME testified he had done more than 3,000 autopsies...I see why he would need personal notes..it helps The Court for him to give more detail...it was preposterous for the defense to think they could commandeer the man's notes...bet they aren't willing to hand over their own...or those of George. IMO

 

[katiecoolady]

The ME had testified before according to him. Well, I'd never no that. If I thought he was believable/knowledgable in the beginning, he lost me when he said Trayvon couldn't have moved because in the autopsy he did three weeks ago...!!! WTH?

Then he got arrogant with the attorney, became stubborn about answering questions, and refused to let them see his notes!

And on and on. Oh my. I don't see him as an efficient ME.

To keep it contemporaneous (sorry Jodi Arias trial watchers) and in the words of ketchup spitting Dr. Henry Lee, "something's wrong".

I'm in no way pro Zimmerman here but this witness is terrible on so many levels. Bad call to end your case on.

 

[nnglas]

I actually think this guy is hilarious. Seems to me he is giving West a taste of his own medicine. IMO


Eta. Idk if he is helping either sides case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katiewonders]

ITA. West is a saint for what he has to put up with. Being constantly disrespected, witnesses barking nonsense at him about not wanting to testify, this ME trying to run roughshod over him and coming across as difficult an bizarre, a seething judge who seems irritated that the defense is bothering to even present a defense. How long till FL does away with trials all together lol IMO.

Or, how long until Don West throws his pen down and says to the judge "I've had enough of this sh#t, I'm OUT!" and leaves to wax surfboards in Hawaii. Man , he is incredibly patient. What a look he had on his face when the judge wouldn't
stop the ME from giving a narrative near the end. He was so PO'ed.
MOO

 

[William N]

I'm sorry but people need to be held accountable for their actions if it caused the death of another, IMO. This can't be a "ooops, my bad, I shouldn't have done that" type thing, this caused the death of a teen who didn't deserve this, nor his family. If I went out and started a fight with someone and I ended up getting my butt kicked and had to kill in order to defend myself, shouldn't I be responsible for my actions? I may be
exaggerating this a bit to make a point.

A killing in self-defense is legally justified when you are in fear of losing your life. And IMO having your head smashed into concrete (with wounds visible on photographs taken at the scene) can make someone feel that way.

 

[PaperDoll]

See I don't feel that way. It was GZ's neighborhood. They had break ins.. They had not caught them yet. He saw something suspicious and calls police. He follows TM to see where he is going but never confronts him.

It seems logical to me if he was going to confront, He would have done it in the light, When on the phone with NEN.

But he didn't. He keeps his distance and knows that police are on the way. They are coming to check it out.

IT is dark. Tm states on phone that he is at DAD's GF house... and then he is 70 yards away when the fight ensues.. That is a big issue for me.

I think TM made mistakes. I think GZ made mistakes.. I just don't think it adds up to murder 2. If the state was going for Manslaughter, I can see that. I still don't see that proven but I could get there easier than M2.

I want justice in this case. I want to make sure we are not prosecuting people on emotion and not fact. I can not tell you how my heart aches for TM's family.

Jmo.

TM didn't think he was a suspect in anything because he knew he was doing nothing wrong. GZ is the one who thought he was from the get go. GZ mistakes were costly, IMO. Again, I don't view GZ as a murderer at all, but my goodness, look what happened because of his mistakes. This is all I'm saying, it's a sad situation, but it's hard for me not have any feelings for a teen coming back from the store with Skittles/drink minding his own business wanting to watch a game on TV but never made it. I can't get past that. The past breakins in the neighborhood should have been left up to the police, NOT GZ, he was simply to report and that should have been it. To me he was way to involved in all this and got a bit too gun-ho and took it too far. IMO

 

[gracielee]

Actually it is the Autopsy Report that must be public...and it is...to the pertinent people...but the ME's private notes are not public property.IMO
DW is quoting from the Autopsy Report....he doesn't need the notes...The ME testified he had done more than 3,000 autopsies...I see why he would need personal notes..it helps The Court for him to give more detail...it was preposterous for the defense to think they could commandeer the man's notes...bet they aren't willing to hand over their own...or those of George. IMO

Any *notes* brought into a court room during testimony become part of the record. That's why it is NEVER done by professional witnesses like cops or technical witnesses.

 

[Sweet Fox]

In my opinion, it is TM's family that is lying on the witness stand. Very sad indeed. At first it wasn't TM and now it is. My opinion is that they full well KNOW that it isn't TM screaming for help, but they know what they NEED to say to get GZ convicted of murder. All my opinion only.

ITA. Common sense indicates it had to be GZ screaming. Moreover, the evidence supports it.

 

[MeeBee]

I've been very busy and haven't been around. But I just saw a portion of the mother's testimony on HLN TV. I am very emotional right now. Whatever side you're on, it is really sad seeing her sitting there listening to the gun shot that killed her son, to hear what his last moments sounded like.

 

[LinTX]

These notes may be very interesting.

IMO, he looked nervous watching as the defense read them, and certainly didn't want them copied...wonder how much of whatever is on them will be allowed in by this judge?

Did I hear him ask why they were smiling or what it was they thought was amusing?

He obviously has no sense of court procedure, which is odd considering how many autopsies he's performed. IMO

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I don't know either, but IMO both sides get the reports - "work product" such as notes are off limits.

The "notes" must be extensive since the attorneys need time to read them. Neither the judge nor the prosecution objected to having the copies made. Prosecutors must be eager to read the notes too.

Short notes can be used by witnesses, but this guy's must be more than that.

IMO

Wow, just wow. What a witness. "What are you laughing at?" (Or something like that.) From the guy who grinned practically the whole time he was on the stand.

 

[PaperDoll]

A killing in self-defense is legally justified when you are in fear of losing your life. And IMO having your head smashed into concrete (with wounds visible on photographs taken at the scene) can make someone feel that way.

You missed my point

 

[Chester_from_THM]

<mod snip>
I think this witness is trying so hard to ensure he is being understood with his accent. He is speaking slowly, and trying to clearly enunciate each word, even spelling some for the court reporter.

I would love to hear him explain this memory thing, though I am sure they won't let him. It is probably interesting. Obviously he's done some research about memory and has employed some philosophy about it.

But he does not seem to understand the courtroom mechanics, and it seems at odds with his obvious intelligence and studiousness regard his ME practice.

Just so weird!