George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion

[daisy7]

He was fulfilling his responsibility as a liaison. There were break ins in the area, and he thought TM looked suspicious. He certainly was within his rights to do what he did and he was trying to be responsible by calling non-emergency 9-11.

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same case Apparently, I didn't get the memo that NW "liaisons" are supposed to drive around the neighborhood with a holstered weapon and a bullet ready to shoot an unarmed teenager.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You can't make it open season on AA kids and shoot them. If you are going to follow them, expect a confrontation. No matter who you are following. But it isn't ok to be suspicious bc of someone based on color when they had every right to be in the neighborhood. If he had asked he would have found out.

BBM: Why? Basically that means, Expect to be attacked. IS that any less wrong?

 

[SilkySifaka]

Have any evidence to back up that GZ is a racist? FBI investigated and concluded that GZ is not a racist.

Thats why i said except perhaps the defendant. And the FBI has its own problems.

 

[Nymeria]

Then you call the police. And have them investigate. You don't leave your house with a loaded gun to find out what they are in fact up to.

Do you?

If the police can't find them, then obviously they are not committing a crime and no reason to demand to know what the guy was doing there. As far as I know, this was not a private complex that only residents were allowed to be on property, was it? Would TM have been charged with trespassing if the cops had found him that night?

But in hindsight, we KNOW TM did in fact belong there...and was unarmed. I guess people can break into someone's house without a weapon. Granted. But the police are on their way. If he gets into a house, they will find him and nothing will be stolen. Broken windows are fixable.

A 17 year old dead kid is NOT fixable.

And I will remind those who are feeling differently...again we KNOW GZ's thoughts about TM. He told us with his own words. He felt he was a F'ing Punk, and A'hole who always gets away.

So we do know what GZ was feeling that night. And we know how wrong he was. But he put himself in that position, so now he has to face the music.

BBM

That line bothers me the most I think.
He isn't some wild west sheriff or pinkerton agent tracking outlaws.
What does he mean "they always get away"??

 

[gxm]

her testimony should be very interesting to say the least.

I thought the gf had been discredited? Is she on the witness list?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

why wouldn't an AA juvenile male belong in the area????? He did belong there!!!! He was visiting his fathers girlfriend. There is absolutely no argument that can be made except for color and that is the crux of this whole case imo. If he was blonde haired we wouldn't have the idea he was suspicious in the first place.

ETA and that is the elephant in the room because none of his actions leading up to the shooting can be justified imo. Maybe a phone call if he is biased and thinking an AA kid standing outside is suspicious, but not following, not stalking, not shooting.

As far as TM goes, I would fight someone following me on a dark night too.

There are burglaries committed by white people too but no one names them suspicious because they are standing outside.

IN NO WAY am i saying anyone on either side is racist except perhaps for the defendant. Just that color is what caused this whole thing,based on a biased attitude by GZ. I would bet my house and my cats it wouldn't have happened if Trayvon was white.

The Defense stated that none of the witnesses knew who Trayvon was and they knew who Zimmerman was. Trayvon did not live in that complex/neighborhood. He wasn't fimiliar to people there and considering they all were dealing with a recent string of burglaries, I'm sure everyone was paranoid of being robbed/possibly assaulted or killed if thief is armed.

(maybe because Trayvon himself assumed George was watching him because he was black instead of thinking GZ was just suspicious in general bc he is a neighborhood watch man who had never seen this stranger in his neighborhood before.)

 

[SilkySifaka]

The non-emergency call that GZ made said TM was running, GZ got out of his car to find him. Why would TM want to get away? It's in the call GZ made.

I would want to get away from some nutcase following me. That is a given. If he continued I would have turned around and confronted him,. Thats scary stuff following someone in the dark of night. First he ran then he turned around, pretty understandable to me.

 

[nawd68]

HE was standing on the lawn of a neighbor of Georges. GZ knew he did not belong there. HE knew he did not live there yet there he was on a rainy night, Standing on his friends property. That is suspicious. It would be to me if I looked out and say someone standing on my neighbors lawn that did not belong there.

There were also recent break ins. It makes sense.

I believe it was a large townhouse community. I doubt GZ knew all of his neighbors.

 

[JudyBolton]

But that is the point!! He DID BELONG. He was visiting his fathers gf. He had every right to walk outside to get some air.

When you walk outside to get air - do you stand on the lawn of strangers?

Also,when crime happens in a neighborhood, it makes everyone more conscious and watchful. When my mom's neighbor was robbed, we became very suspicious of people slowly walking by - looking up at the house, or anything like that - because we worried the house was being "cased"....if they were actually standing on her property - I'm certain we would not have assumed they were there to get air!!!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Then you call the police. And have them investigate. You don't leave your house with a loaded gun to find out what they are in fact up to.

Do you?

If the police can't find them, then obviously they are not committing a crime and no reason to demand to know what the guy was doing there. As far as I know, this was not a private complex that only residents were allowed to be on property, was it? Would TM have been charged with trespassing if the cops had found him that night?

But in hindsight, we KNOW TM did in fact belong there...and was unarmed. I guess people can break into someone's house without a weapon. Granted. But the police are on their way. If he gets into a house, they will find him and nothing will be stolen. Broken windows are fixable.

A 17 year old dead kid is NOT fixable.

And I will remind those who are feeling differently...again we KNOW GZ's thoughts about TM. He told us with his own words. He felt he was a F'ing Punk, and A'hole who always gets away.

So we do know what GZ was feeling that night. And we know how wrong he was. But he put himself in that position, so now he has to face the music.

BBM - I don't understand what you mean.

And GZ called to get it checked out. He didn't know what TM was doing that's why he called LE. I believe TM put himself in the bad position by straddling and pummeling someone who had the temerity to ask him questions.

 

[SilkySifaka]

The Defense stated that none of the witnesses knew who Trayvon was and they knew who Zimmerman was. Trayvon did not live in that complex/neighborhood. He wasn't fimiliar to people there and considering they all were dealing with a recent string of burglaries, I'm sure everyone was paranoid of being robbed/possibly assaulted or killed if thief is armed.

(maybe because Trayvon himself assumed George was watching him because he was black instead of thinking GZ was just suspicious in general bc he is a neighborhood watch man who had never seen this stranger in his neighborhood before.)

Well two witnesses knew who he was, the girlfriend and her son and probably anyone who lived on either side of her (that is conjecture though). There is no HOA that i know of that says black kids aren't allowed on the sidewalk

ETA and nothing but nothing that makes any black child suspicious for standing on a sidewalk

 

[cityslick]

This defense attorney is going way past an opening statement to me...IMO...he is arguing the case and evidence. This makes me think that Zimmerman is not going to testify since the attorney is saying what he would say. Can't believe the judge is allowing all of this, or that the prosecutors haven't objected.

The jury isn't supposed to consider any of it.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

BBM

That line bothers me the most I think.
He isn't some wild west sheriff or pinkerton agent tracking outlaws.
What does he mean "they always get away"??

He could have meant "they" as in "these thiefs that keep getting away with burglary and keep coming back... "They" always get away."

 

[gxm]

Wow. The defense's opening statement is going on forever and is really getting into evidence. I find this confusing. They are getting a lot of evidence into the OS.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I believe it was a large townhouse community. I doubt GZ knew all of his neighbors.

He knew that one. IT was someone he had known for a long time.

 

[cityslick]

I would want to get away from some nutcase following me. That is a given. If he continued I would have turned around and confronted him,. Thats scary stuff following someone in the dark of night. First he ran then he turned around, pretty understandable to me.

He was so scared yet he didn't run straight home, which he would of arrived to while GZ was still on the phone.

 

[SilkySifaka]

When you walk outside to get air - do you stand on the lawn of strangers?

Also,when crime happens in a neighborhood, it makes everyone more conscious and watchful. When my mom's neighbor was robbed, we became very suspicious of people slowly walking by - looking up at the house, or anything like that - because we worried the house was being "cased"....if they were actually standing on her property - I'm certain we would not have assumed they were there to get air!!!

My understanding is he was on the clubhouse property and I think everyone is allowed to be there. A black teenager was gunned down, imo in cold blood at the least for no good reason. He had his gun for a reason and planned to use it. Its a double action so it wasn't just panic that made him shoot. Is everyone in the states reaction to fisticuffs to shoot someone dead??????

 

[Horace Finklestein]

He could have meant "they" as in "these thiefs that keep getting away with burglary and keep coming back... "They" always get away."

That's how I took it. It's not as if he knew TM and was saying he personally was a punk.

 

[iluvmua]

I would want to get away from some nutcase following me. That is a given. If he continued I would have turned around and confronted him,. Thats scary stuff following someone in the dark of night. First he ran then he turned around, pretty understandable to me.

yep, and then he punched GZ in the nose and started hitting his head against the sidewalk.

and why would TM want to confront GZ, especially since he could have been home even before he got off the phone.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Well two witnesses knew who he was, the girlfriend and her son and probably anyone who lived on either side of her (that is conjecture though). There is no HOA that i know of that says black kids aren't allowed on the sidewalk

ETA and nothing but nothing that makes any black child suspicious for standing on a sidewalk

Again, Trayvon and his father did not stay in that neighborhood. Trayvon was cutting through that complex. He was standing out in the rain texting, but to GZ it was odd he would be just standing in the rain in general instead of just passing through. It's all tragic.