Germany Germany - Gruber Farm Murders, Waidhofen, Bavaria, 31 March 1922

[FromGermany1]

Marking ....

 

[FromGermany1]

Today I noticed, that 2 women had inherited a farm, and I think, that wasn't usually contractually agreed at that time. In addition, there were several children in the play so-to-say as real children or stepchildren, partially brought from first marriage to second marriage or maybe even an incest-child, with non-fixed fatherhood (own father or next husband). The motive seems to me today as maybe coupled with inheritence somehow. But of course it is only a feeling (which I never had before). MOO

 

[Gummyshoe]

The motive seems to me today as maybe coupled with inheritence somehow. But of course it is only a feeling (which I never had before). MOO

That’s something that I haven’t heard of before, that’s definitely worth looking into

 

[amandab]

Thank you for starting this thread! As notorious as the killings were, I'm surprised there wasn't already one going.

 

[Gummyshoe]

Thank you for starting this thread! As notorious as the killings were, I'm surprised there wasn't already one going.

The thing that surprised me most was that there are barely even any mentions of this case on the forum!

 

[iamshadow21]

In case anyone is interested, I know about Hinterkaifeck because it's detailed in a chapter of The Man from the Train, an unusual, speculative work of true crime, that touches on a series of similar style family killings that took place across the United States over more than a decade. I know that it's not to everyone's taste, but I enjoyed it for what it was - an investigative work looking for a pattern in what historical records remain, and showing that investigation in all its amorphous, ephemeral nature. The authors propose that at least some of the killings were the work of a serial predator using the railways to arrive and leave the locations of the killings. Hinterkaifeck is mentioned towards the end because despite being half a world away, it bears uncanny similarities in many respects to a number of those killings that took place in the US a decade or so earlier.

MOO

 

[Same Old Stella]

I could have sworn there was a thread on here years ago about the family massacre at Hinterkaifeck but at the time, it being seemingly unsolvable, people just lost interest and it went away. There are now YT videos there are fairly recent, mentioning a slew of new suspects I'd never heard of before. Thanks Gummyshoe for starting this new (?) thread.

 

[cenazoic]

Existing thread here:

M

Germany Thread 'Germany - Gruber Farm Murders, Waidhofen, Bavaria, 31 March 1922'

Feb 23, 2007

Hi there



I decided to open a threat for a hideous and mysterious crime which was committed 85 years ago. Unfortunately there is no coverage of this case written in English available on the World Wide Web. (Except for a short article at wikipedia).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterkaifeck



But I thought you might enjoy this as a reading on a dark and cold winter’s eve.

• Mischa
• Replies: 84
• Forum: Cold Cases

• 

 

[jillolantern]

In case anyone is interested, I know about Hinterkaifeck because it's detailed in a chapter of The Man from the Train, an unusual, speculative work of true crime, that touches on a series of similar style family killings that took place across the United States over more than a decade. I know that it's not to everyone's taste, but I enjoyed it for what it was - an investigative work looking for a pattern in what historical records remain, and showing that investigation in all its amorphous, ephemeral nature. The authors propose that at least some of the killings were the work of a serial predator using the railways to arrive and leave the locations of the killings. Hinterkaifeck is mentioned towards the end because despite being half a world away, it bears uncanny similarities in many respects to a number of those killings that took place in the US a decade or so earlier.

MOO

I second this comment. Its an excellent book. Authors are Bill James and Rachel McCarthy James. Its fact based and has a somewhat statistical bent, which makes sent if you know anything about Bill James. The speculative part is just near the end where the authors attempt to attribute crimes to certain people or else rule them out.

 

[jillolantern]

By the way, for anyone looking for Hinterkaifeck on a map you won't find it. The translation is something like "behind Kaifeck" and can be thought of as rural Kaifeck or outside of the main town area. IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

AI Overview
The victims:

• Andreas Gruber: Der Großvater, der auch als gewalttätiges Familienoberhaupt bekannt war.
• Cäzilia Gruber: Andreas' Frau.
• Viktoria Gabriel: Die verwitwete Tochter von Andreas Gruber, die uneheliche Kinder mit ihrem Vater hatte.
• Josef Gabriel: Viktoria's Sohn.
• Cäzilia Gabriel: Viktoria's Tochter.
• Maria Baumgartner: Die Magd, die kurz vor den Morden ihren Dienst auf dem Hof antrat.​
• Andreas Gruber: The grandfather, who was also known as a violent family head.
  Cäzilia Gruber: Andreas' wife.
  Viktoria Gabriel: Andreas Gruber's widowed daughter, who had illegitimate children with her father.
  Josef Gabriel: Viktoria's son.
  Cäzilia Gabriel: Viktoria's daughter.
  Maria Baumgartner: The maid who began working on the farm shortly before the murders.

 

[FromGermany1]

Datei:ZoominHK.jpg – Das Hinterkaifeck-Wiki

wiki.hinterkaifeck.net

 

[FromGermany1]

100 Jahre danach: Der Mordfall von Hinterkaifeck | BR.de

Es war ein grausamer Mord, der auf dem Einödhof „Hinterkaifeck“ nordöstlich von Schrobenhausen geschah: In der Nacht von 31. März auf den 1. April 1922 wurden alle sechs Bewohner des Hofes umgebracht. Der Fall ist bis heute ungeklärt.

www.br.de

Please, use Google translation, if interested.

 

[Same Old Stella]

Existing thread here:

M

Germany Thread 'Germany - Gruber Farm Murders, Waidhofen, Bavaria, 31 March 1922'

Feb 23, 2007

Hi there



I decided to open a threat for a hideous and mysterious crime which was committed 85 years ago. Unfortunately there is no coverage of this case written in English available on the World Wide Web. (Except for a short article at wikipedia).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterkaifeck



But I thought you might enjoy this as a reading on a dark and cold winter’s eve.

• Mischa
• Replies: 84
• Forum: Cold Cases

• 

Thanks so much; I just knew it existed but couldn't bring it up myself. Bravo!

 

[Susikatze]

Very interesting analysis in German: Der Täter

The author meticulously checked all known evidence and came to the quite convincing conclusion that it was Andreas Gruber himself who killed his family, lived several days unnoticed hiding in the attic and finally died in a freak accident. He was known for severe domestic violence and being sexually abusive (he served one year in jail for incest with his daughter and he had already murdered another daughter). His daughter Viktoria allegedly wanted to remarry and leave the farm, he couldnt cope with that (and also planned on abusing his granddaughter who was also his daughter) and killed everyone in rage with a hatchet he had custom built in order to slaughter swine and that supposedly only he was able to effectively use.

 

[Betty P]

Existing thread here:

M

Germany Thread 'Germany - Gruber Farm Murders, Waidhofen, Bavaria, 31 March 1922'

Feb 23, 2007

Hi there



I decided to open a threat for a hideous and mysterious crime which was committed 85 years ago. Unfortunately there is no coverage of this case written in English available on the World Wide Web. (Except for a short article at wikipedia).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterkaifeck



But I thought you might enjoy this as a reading on a dark and cold winter’s eve.

• Mischa
• Replies: 84
• Forum: Cold Cases

• 

I reported the accidental duplication to Mods.

They will merge the old thread with this one. Its nice to have another look at this case. I recall reading about it a few years ago.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The author meticulously checked all known evidence and came to the quite convincing conclusion that it was Andreas

IMO: I believe I once read this case was also used as an exercise for some German law students and after studying all of the available evidence, they came to a likely-conclusion. But it was decided not to release their opinion on the likely-perp out of respect for any descendants. Very interesting. (And completely crazy that there are more than one possible suspect in that village people think capable of something this horrific.)

 

[FromGermany1]

Very interesting analysis in German: Der Täter

The author meticulously checked all known evidence and came to the quite convincing conclusion that it was Andreas Gruber himself who killed his family, lived several days unnoticed hiding in the attic and finally died in a freak accident. He was known for severe domestic violence and being sexually abusive (he served one year in jail for incest with his daughter and he had already murdered another daughter). His daughter Viktoria allegedly wanted to remarry and leave the farm, he couldnt cope with that (and also planned on abusing his granddaughter who was also his daughter) and killed everyone in rage with a hatchet he had custom built in order to slaughter swine and that supposedly only he was able to effectively use.

This makes a lot of sense, although I would like to know, which "freak accident" could have killed AG. I remember, there was someone, who fed the cattle for days after the murders. Seems logical, if it was him.

 

[Gators North]

This case fascinates me. Last night I ordered “Man on a Train”, the book that @jillolantern and @iamshadow21 mentioned.

 

[iamshadow21]

This case fascinates me. Last night I ordered “Man on a Train”, the book that @jillolantern and @iamshadow21 mentioned.

I hope you like it! I know from reading other reviews that not everyone enjoyed the writing style, but I really did. If you're someone who needs to know all the facts, you might find it frustrating. It's more like a work of archaeology or academia. It's a theory using ephemera, news sources of the age that may not be accurate or comprehensive. I found it compelling. This specific case is only mentioned at the very end, though, so don't go into it expecting a large portion of the text devoted to it.

MOO