Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

[fieldnotes]

I know, reading is hard ... but you should try it sometimes. What do you think, how they found this trooper? I give you the hint, it's in all three articles.

Peter and the Foreigner you two should go on a date. It's obvious you are both madly in love with each other. Hot, hot, hot!!!! lmaoo

 

[Sillybilly]

Staten Island, NY - Maureen Brainard-Barnes, thought to be one of the victims of the Craigslist Long Island serial killer, was called by a Staten Island police officer just prior to her murder, one report claims.


Cop Contacted Maureen just prior to her murder

I posted that article upthread Seaslug ... it says "that the officer was one of the last people to make contact with her using Craigslist", not that he was The Last person.

 

[Sillybilly]

I think this was mentioned many moons ago, not that it's that unusual, but MBB is wearing a pink hoodie in that stillshot ... ALC was also wearing a pink hoodie when she left home for the last time.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter and the Foreigner you two should go on a date. It's obvious you are both madly in love with each other. Hot, hot, hot!!!! lmaoo

I guess, my wife would hate me to go on dates with other girls. :floorlaugh:

 

[Peter Brendt]

Staten Island, NY - Maureen Brainard-Barnes, thought to be one of the victims of the Craigslist Long Island serial killer, was called by a Staten Island police officer just prior to her murder, one report claims.


Cop Contacted Maureen just prior to her murder

Okay, you found it ... who is next finding it?

 

[Just K]

I think this was mentioned many moons ago, not that it's that unusual, but MBB is wearing a pink hoodie in that stillshot ... ALC was also wearing a pink hoodie when she left home for the last time.

When I hear something like that I think of profile pics on Facebook and Myspace and then I think...did he want ALC to dress up in a way that made her look like MBB? (That is when I think that maybe, just maybe, their is a SK and this is not drug and/or OC related.)

Just a note re: the physical attributes of two of the GB4:
Amber & Maureen had similar facial structure, complexions and hair & eye color. IMO, they have similar mouths.

 

[Peter Brendt]

When I hear something like that I think of profile pics on Facebook and Myspace and then I think...did he want ALC to dress up in a way that made her look like MBB? (That is when I think that maybe, just maybe, their is a SK and this is not drug and/or OC related.)

Just a note re: the physical attributes of two of the GB4:
Amber & Maureen had similar facial structure, complexions and hair & eye color. IMO, they have similar mouths.

But if you look for a selection pattern in an SK case, you need to look for what ALL victims have in common, not just two. That's exactly the problem.

 

[PreciousDust]

Now that is a disgusting thought ...

What? What's so bad? Sounds like an elegant soiree.

 

[Just K]

But if you look for a selection pattern in an SK case, you need to look for what ALL victims have in common, not just two. That's exactly the problem.

But I'm not necessarily believing that this sick is following a pattern or that he is a classic SK.

 

[Theforeigner]

I know, reading is hard ... but you should try it sometimes. What do you think, how they found this trooper? I give you the hint, it's in all three articles.

I DID (of course) read those 3 links you posted, and today I reread those 3 links.

Still NO word in ANY of those links about a "last "John" identified"

Still NO word in ANY of those links about a "trooper" (STILL...the "trooper" was from Buffalo and had nothing to do with the NYPD cop's case or the LISK case)

And by the way, in the first link you posted; there is absolutley nothing to read, no newsreport at all, empty!


Now concerning your theorie that there is no "homicidal John" because that would require that a "John" could be linked to all GB4 vitims.

Well there IS somthing that seems to possibly connect all GB4 victims to one "John" , namely, according to police, that the killer:
"used disposable and untraceable cell phones to contact the four victims"

SO... it seems that police have found out that the last call all GB4 victims recived before they disappeared was from "disposable and untraceable cell phones"
And that, IMO, point to that it was the very same person who called all GB4 victims before they disappeared, using disposable and untraceable cell phones to contact all four victims.

 

[Peter Brendt]

But I'm not necessarily believing that this sick is following a pattern or that he is a classic SK.

That's fine, the Constitution gives you the right to believe what you want, or not to believe at all. And since belief is beyond logic or even the limitations of the physical possible, the discussion is over, you believe what you want to believe, I do the same.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I DID (of course) read those 3 links you posted, and today I reread those 3 links.

Still NO word in ANY of those links about a "last "John" identified"

Still NO word in ANY of those links about a "trooper" (STILL...the "trooper" was from Buffalo and had nothing to do with the NYPD cop's case or the LISK case)

And by the way, in the first link you posted; there is absolutley nothing to read, no newsreport at all, empty!


Now concerning your theorie that there is no "homicidal John" because that would require that a "John" could be linked to all GB4 vitims.

Well there IS somthing that seems to possibly connect all GB4 victims to one "John" , namely, according to police, that the killer:
"used disposable and untraceable cell phones to contact the four victims"

SO... it seems that police have found out that the last call all GB4 victims recived before they disappeared was from "disposable and untraceable cell phones"
And that, IMO, point to that it was the very same person who called all GB4 victims before they disappeared, using disposable and untraceable cell phones to contact all four victims.

Yeah, and to make that homicidal john happen, you have to ignore, that MBB was last heard from at a bus terminal. You have to ignore that the $1500 client called on Schaller's phone and so on ... So yeah, this investigation has obviously changed into a question of beliefs. Beliefs don't demand to bring all details together. They allow to hang all on one aspect out of dozens and ignore the rest. And since I don't do beliefs, I am out of this discussion. I am once too often through that mill. :escape:

 

[Theforeigner]

Yeah, and to make that homicidal john happen, you have to ignore, that MBB was last heard from at a bus terminal. You have to ignore that the $1500 client called on Schaller's phone and so on ... So yeah, this investigation has obviously changed into a question of beliefs. Beliefs don't demand to bring all details together. They allow to hang all on one aspect out of dozens and ignore the rest. And since I don't do beliefs, I am out of this discussion. I am once too often through that mill. :escape:

The examples you give here, "to make that homicidal john happen" have no reason IMO:

MBB advertised on Craigslist and had obviously added a phonenumber that clients could call, so what is the problem concerning where MBB was last "heard from"?
A client, "John", could have seen and read what she looked like, her hight/weight etc, in her Craigslist add, found her fit his desires as a victim, and then call her cellphone and agreed to meet.


And what is the problem with the Amber C case?
The "John" client called on one of Schaller's phones/numbers which Amber C used in her Craigslist adds. So what is the problem with that?
Same as with MBB, Ambers's client, "John", could have seen and read what she looked like, her hight/weight etc, in her Craigslist add, found her fit his desires as a victim, and then call the phonenumber in the add (Schaller's phone number used by Amber in her add ) talked to Amber (several times according to Schaller) agreed to meet, agreed payment $1500, made her leave her house without any cellphone, purse etc. and meet him down the road, around the corner.


And then you say "and so on...?"
Could you be more specific?

And let me ask you this; Do you think you have a better knowledge of what happened to this 4 girls than the police do?
Do you have access to the evidence/results of investigation that the police have?
I ask because the police belive it was a "John, or at least that the killer contacted all 4 victims pretending to be a "John", using disposable and untraceable cell phones.


I simply don´t understand why you fight so hard to dismiss the "homicidal john" theorie???
Especially when it is obvious that you can not back it up with valid/reasonable explanations and/or evidence.
And your theorie is totaly against the police theorie, not to mention that you proponent a black killer when every other LE, profiler etc have said it is most likely a white male.

 

[Emre E]

... you proponent a black killer when every other LE, profiler etc have said it is most likely a white male.

I'm with PB on this one. When John Allan Muhammad was ruining lives FBI was searching for a white male. Just as a precaution not to have a blind eye on that possibility even would be wiser. IMHO.

Regarding my opinion, I don't want to elaborate but one of genericwhitemale's posts have common notes with my tune.

 

[Theforeigner]

Yeah, and to make that homicidal john happen, you have to ignore, that MBB was last heard from at a bus terminal. You have to ignore that the $1500 client called on Schaller's phone and so on ... So yeah, this investigation has obviously changed into a question of beliefs. Beliefs don't demand to bring all details together. They allow to hang all on one aspect out of dozens and ignore the rest. And since I don't do beliefs, I am out of this discussion. I am once too often through that mill. :escape:

I really want to understnad your way of thinking so
let me ask you concerning your post to me:

You said:
"to make that homicidal john happen, you have to ignore, that MBB was last heard from at a bus terminal."

My question is:
WHY do I have to ignore that to make that homicidal john happen ?



You said:
" You have to ignore that the $1500 client called on Schaller's phone"

My question is:
WHY do I have to ignore that to make that homicidal john happen?



You said:
"and so on "

Well, that is kind of hard to relate to, not what I would consider back up your theorie.

 

[Theforeigner]

I'm with PB on this one. When John Allan Muhammad was ruining lives FBI was searching for a white male. Just as a precaution not to have a blind eye on that possibility even would be wiser. IMHO.

Regarding my opinion, I don't want to elaborate but one of genericwhitemale's posts have common notes with my tune.

Emre E
I actually agree that a door should be open for the SK beeing a black man , however leaving an open door is quite different from advocating the theorie that the killer is black.

 

[Peter Brendt]

The examples you give here, "to make that homicidal john happen" have no reason IMO:

MBB advertised on Craigslist and had obviously added a phonenumber that clients could call, so what is the problem concerning where MBB was last "heard from"?
A client, "John", could have seen and read what she looked like, her hight/weight etc, in her Craigslist add, found her fit his desires as a victim, and then call her cellphone and agreed to meet.


And what is the problem with the Amber C case?
The "John" client called on one of Schaller's phones/numbers which Amber C used in her Craigslist adds. So what is the problem with that?
Same as with MBB, Ambers's client, "John", could have seen and read what she looked like, her hight/weight etc, in her Craigslist add, found her fit his desires as a victim, and then call the phonenumber in the add (Schaller's phone number used by Amber in her add ) talked to Amber (several times according to Schaller) agreed to meet, agreed payment $1500, made her leave her house without any cellphone, purse etc. and meet him down the road, around the corner.


And then you say "and so on...?"
Could you be more specific?

And let me ask you this; Do you think you have a better knowledge of what happened to this 4 girls than the police do?
Do you have access to the evidence/results of investigation that the police have?
I ask because the police belive it was a "John, or at least that the killer contacted all 4 victims pretending to be a "John", using disposable and untraceable cell phones.


I simply don´t understand why you fight so hard to dismiss the "homicidal john" theorie???
Especially when it is obvious that you can not back it up with valid/reasonable explanations and/or evidence.
And your theorie is totaly against the police theorie, not to mention that you proponent a black killer when every other LE, profiler etc have said it is most likely a white male.

Okay, out of respect, one last attempt. This will be a long one and I will have to split over several posts due to technical reasons:

Yep, my theory is against any other theory. But then, the same was the situation with about half of the SKs I profiled over the years. Problem is, I was right in the end. So, it's maybe not arrogance but simply experience, even my profiling originally didn't came from the crime field, but from the historical field. Which means, opposite to the current FBI-whitebook, I weight details a lot more. So lets go through it, one last time, maybe you understand my reasoning:

1.) Victimology
The minimal victimology for LISK includes only the GB4, since those are the only four victims, we can definitively connect to this killer due to the dump site, the method of disposal, a coherent timeline and the ritualistic aspects shown in the dump site.
All of those are female, I guess, we all can agree to that. The primary visual attributes, a normal male predator would react on, like hair color, eye color, face shape, are inconsistent, means, we have in that area not one attribute that would be the same for all four.
Secondary attributes, here especially, would be partially blurred, since women have a tendency to use heels. Means, at the time, the SK selected his victims, he would perceive the height including those heels. Which makes easily a difference of up to three inches. Which means, all he could perceive were rather delicate women, a little under average height. That is not consistent with an unsub with a fetish for small women, but it is consistent with an unsub at the beginning of his career, who has as of yet to gain more self-esteem as SK. Note, that his last victim, Amber Lynn Costello was 5'6", so definitively not in the range of "petite" anymore. He worked up to a victim, that at least looked like as if she had better chances to fight back. And the choice to take on a taller victim shows, he is not bound to the whole "small women" scheme.
All four victims were Craigslist escorts. Now, that is a kind of prostitute, but it is not the usual street corner prostitute. Means, communication parameters changed. The john has to do the first step but he can do that anonymous. The internet allows a killer, who suffers from some self-perceived flaw, to hide that flaw till the moment comes, his victim actually sees him. But here is the rub: Unlike a killer of street corner prostitutes, like for example Robert Hanson, this unsub would know, that point comes. And thus, he would have to get over it as fast as possible and gain control. The point here is, the killer could have several motivations, that would force him in this victimology of Craigslist escorts. The usual psychopath/sadist101 as described in the FBI profile. Only, we heard not much about signs of torture. No cuts down to the bone, no signs of excessive beating (as in blunt force trauma), nothing of it is reported. And usually, the garden variety psychopath101/sadist101, whether it'S the straight line variant or combined with any form of dissociative personality disorder, is a typed offender. That means narrow age bracket, hair color in a certain range (for example brown to black), certain appearances, like similar haircuts and often also similar face shapes. Or, to put it simple: That kind of predator selects by his personal taste in women. Basically like any other man. Given the inconsistencies in the victim's appearance, this killer can't be the garden variety psychopath/sadist. The FBI rubber stamp profile is as flawed as it was in the last few dozen cases, they profiled. So the real question is, what else could he be?

2.) The dump site
What we're looking for is medium-high organized and builds clustered dump sites without the possibility of hour long revisits or necrophilia. This is a very telling combination. This unsub has obviously no sexual connection to his victims, that would force him to search a place, where he could sit for hours masturbating or committing necrophilia on the remains. This defies the reason to build that dump site for a regular psychopath/sadist, who builds clustered dump sites to do exactly that (normally hidden behind the much nicer term of reliving the deed). But this unsub doesn't care about those sexual aspects. That tells us, this dump site has another purpose. And it is not just disposal. There are easier and more effective methods of disposal. So there is a purpose and it is not a sexual one.
Looking at the dump site under this aspect, what is significant? Basically, the victims are stretched out along the road. That makes the road the mainline instead of the position of the victims. If you compare to other SKs, you will find, that in clustered dump sites the clusters are more circular than in a straight line shape. So this unsub build his dump site along the road. Why? Because it's the road, that is important, more than the single victim. He is a drive-by revisitor. That means, he doesn't spend too long time with revisits, but he nevertheless revisits. Which is a form trophy behavior. This dump site is in this much more related to spree sites with staging or other methods to express disgust and hostility, than it is related to the usual sex offender dump site. However, gathering the trophies and drive past them is an extreme form. So what we see here is not the work of a psychopath and sex-offender but the work of a psychopath and mission-driven offender. And at that point, it's no wonder, the profilers missed that part because if you go back to the American roots of modern profiling, you will find, the whole methodology was for about forty years exclusively based on sex-offenders and included basically only sexual motives. Or to put it simple: From Billy Glaze to Herb Mullin, the FBI profilers missed as of yet EVERY mission-driven SK.

3.) Why African-American?
SKs come in all colors. Personally I'm convinced, if there would be green people, there would be also green SKs. So looking at similar victimologies, especially the two main aspects of a relative wide age bracket and the lack of a consistent type, should be allowed. And what you find is the usual supremacist or racist type. Since the victims in this case are in their appearance all Caucasian, we can exclude a white supremacist. So lets look on other types of racists. Some Hispanics can be pretty racist too, but since they don't like African-Americans any better than Caucasians, we would in this case have at least one African-American victim. We don't. So we look for a racist (as in doesn't like all other or certain other skin colors) whose focus is exclusively on Caucasian victims. Now, what ethnicity could that be?
And, looking at other cases from the fields of SKs, SRs or spree killers, it's not that unusual. I referred often enough to Lemual Smith, Carlton Gary, Omar Thornton or also Bernard Jackson. While Bernard Jackson is an SR, not an SK, the victimology is interesting in comparison with LISK. All victims were Caucasian, the age bracket was wide, no visual similarities, but if you see height and weight, you will see, as in the LISK case, the tallest victims, those with the better chances to fight back, came all nearer to the end of his rape series. And while LISK parked his little trophy yard just one mile from an exclusive white community, Jackson hunted in an almost exclusively white neighborhood, the Waldo community.

continuing in the next post ...

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Peter...if you are going to present yourself as an expert in profiling, perhaps you should consider contacting a mod and being verified. We have a great deal of respect for the opinions of our verified professionals here! And your knowledge would be valuable in other cases as well.

 

[Emre E]

Emre E
I actually agree that a door should be open for the SK beeing a black man , however leaving an open door is quite different from advocating the theorie that the killer is black.

Sure. Agree.

Actually I just can't decide whether the disposal of the bodies shows a kind of respect or disrespect to them (I'm sorry if the term "respect" may sound improper, I just can't find another word for it)

My idea, respect goes for White Unsub, disrespect goes for Black.

Like I said, why I would expect a black person I can not elaborate, I could easily break the barriers and be called racist or something.

There's one thing with MBB, her actual ad (last updated in 2008, Melissa Cann did perhaps, I don't know) points her date of entry in the business (quite probably modelling at that time) as 2003.

Now, she must have been in a wide social circle in 4 years which may have crossed her path with the perp, maybe several times - meaning she may not be (and probably isn't) a computer picked victim. But still, why black? Mostly hunchie hunch.

Reg the calls to Amanda, there's a guy named Anthony Kirkland. Youtube him and listen to the guy talking. You might find the insight why Peter says the perp may well be an imposter.

 

[LINative13]

OK, the way the GB4 were layed out suggests a local (or former local). The knowledge to put those bodies where they were was perfect. I do not know any black people that play at the beach consistently, or who are well versed in the foot traffic patterns of hemlock cove. And if a black family lives down at oak beach....they are probably whiter than me. In fact I have never seen a black boat owner at hemlock cove. I have been going there for 20 years.