Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[tarastep50]

You believe that for real?

We all know that LE doesn't tell all, or even tell the truth at all times.

Look at Shannan Gilbert. As far as I know, Rex isn't suspected in her murder.But someone murdered her.

But LE keeps claiming it looks like an accident, while holding information close and claiming it can't be released because of an on going investigation. They bookmarked their release of the 911 tapes with a speech by the sheriff saying he is only releasing it because his detectives say it won't harm their investigation, and reissuing the tip line info.

There is no way to know for sure if this statement about the weapons is true in regards to the Gilgo Beach 4. They could be saying that to not tip Rex off about a potential charge until the Grand Jury reviews it, or something. In addition to the GB4, we don't know what investigations are going on regarding the newly identified Karen Vergata, or the soon to be identified Peaches and Peaches Jr. Or even out of state victims.

once again, even if not directly related to the charged crime, I have never heard of a person incarcerated, recently searched, having had fire arms brought in because of the search, getting them back before the investigation is even over.

Rex is not the first criminal who caused those close to them upheaval.

For whatever reason, not only is Rex's attorney defending him, but his wife's attorney is too...by trying to turn Rex into the victim.

Personally, I'm far more concerned with justice for the GB-4 than this manipulative narrative.

To be clear: The lawyers don't want the guns to sell. They know it won't happen. They want to whine about it to imply that LE is wrong, even when it is clear this is business as usual by LE for a suspect/defendant of murder. They want you to think of Rex as some poor soul who was forced to stop providing for his family rather than as someone charged with painfully snuffing out lives of people who matter every bit as much as his daughter.

I'm just not that easily manipulate. I see what they are trying to do, and I won't be distracted from seeking justice for the people it he is charged with, or suspected of, murdering.

And it is not clear that Rex has been a family provider all along. Who keeps hundreds of thousands of dollars of guns in a vault while their wife is using a SNAP card? This was I think the point Kittyhare was alluding to. That can't be explained by compartmentalization and charm. Dude was letting his family suffer from food insecurity so he could have like 30 guns for each of his fingers.

Guns weren't used in the murders. Le has to look for another killer. While rex certainly isn't a victim he isn't convicted yet.

 

[waldojabba]

I believe this was already posted upthread but attaching again for those who may have missed it - BBM

Accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann says his family needs his gun collection back, not Nassau

Heuermann's defense lawyers said his family needs the seized 280 firearms, in part because they need the money that could be earned from sale of the valuable antique guns.

www.newsday.com

"Earlier this month, Suffolk County prosecutors sought to turn over to Nassau County more than 280 firearms seized from Heuermann’s home in the days following his July 13 arrest on first and second-degree murder charges in the killings of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy and Amber Lynn Costello, whose remains were found near Gilgo Beach 13 years ago. Heuermann has pleaded not guilty and remains held without bail at the Suffolk County Jail.

Prosecutors have said Heuermann, 60, who worked as a Manhattan architect before his arrest, is also the “prime suspect” in the slaying of Maureen Brainard-Barnes, whose remains were found with the other three victims. All four of the women — the first of 10 sets of remains found along Ocean Parkway that are believed to be the work of one or more serial killers — were sex workers.

Suffolk County Police Department detectives searched Heuermann’s Massapequa Park home, in Nassau County, for 12 days, ending on July 26.

Prosecutors have said they concluded that some of the weapons may have been possessed in violation of state gun laws and “proper jurisdiction” for potential charges would be in Nassau County.

Suffolk prosecutors have not said specifically which sections of New York’s firearms law Heuermann may have violated, but sought to transfer the guns to Nassau after conversations between law enforcement in Nassau, Suffolk, the New York State Police and the FBI. No guns are believed to have been used in the killings for which Heuermann is accused, prosecutors have said."

All JMO

 

[Ruminations]

Guns weren't used in the murders. Le has to look for another killer. While rex certainly isn't a victim he isn't convicted yet.

So, are you asserting that it would be a typical thing for LE to take legally seized items per a lawfully executed search warrant and return them before the investigation is done?

Are you asserting that what Rex's lawyers are requesting is actually a thing?

Of course he's not convicted yet, and he may never be. He is presumed innocent. That's beside the point.

It is not typical at all for LE to release items seized pursuant to a search warrant while the investigation is on going.

We don't know it's truthful that LE does not believe the guns were used in the GB4 murders. Furthermore, neither you nor I know that LE is not investigating Rex in other murders or disappearances, which may involve fire arms.

but so what? Even if it turns out that Rex's firearms were not used in crimes (besides the unlawful possession), that has nothing to do with anything, either.

The attorneys don't expect to get the guns back before LE decides they are finished with them. They expect discredit LE by implying that what LE is doing with the guns isn't 100% business as usual. And hopefully, by discrediting LE, Rex looks less like the man accused of sadistically murdering 4 women around his own daughters age.

They need to shut up about the guns, and start appreciating VH a little more.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

IMO many of these SK's can present as different personalities to different people. BTK called it "cubing" in his interviews Simplistically it's really the same thing as compartmentalizing.

Rex led a secret life. Although we like to think we know that since he was a sadistic serial killer that he was a really punitive husband and father, we really don't know for sure what type of husband and father he was I don't think.

Also as far as I know the divorce is uncontested. We can only make assumptions about their assets. We do know that they had a ot of tax debt from previous threads. The only real estate asset I think he may own free and clear is the vegas time share which I don't think has a high value or big target audience. It's prob just a money suck with all its presumptive fees. The house in Masspq, land in NC , I am betting are either mortgaged to the hilt or have liens on them from the tax debt perhaps.

So in my mind, on their list of assets the $300k ish gun collection has the most value and is the easiest to cash in. Which is not to say that they are not trying to sell other things as well - we just don't have more info to indicate that I don't think. If as stated in the articles, the Suffolk DA petitioned the court to release the guns to Nassau County- that tells me that the guns are not needed as evidence for the case. So what the divorce lawyers are asking is to to skip that step - and return the property to Rex/Asa directly. Maybe the judge decides anything not registered/illegal stays with Nassau the rest back to the family. or something else we will have to wait and see.

What do they need money for - Well first of all, those lawyers don't pay themselves - and we have exhaustively been over what medical could cost etc.

Unraveling that business is another abysmal mess I think. What is there to sell? The value of the business was based on Rex's expertise to ferret out the obscure loopholes in the codes etc. to get difficult real estate/construction approvals. Depending on whether Rex was incorporated/signed for everything personally or how his business was structured, the family may still be on the hook for the lease on the office space, office equipment - and I think a few claims of employees not being paid and who knows what else. Someone - perhaps another lawyer -needs to be paid to unravel all that - maybe even to file bankruptcy for the biz or something to dismiss that debt.

So bottom line I don't find anything nefarious in the two lawyers being in lock step on asking for the guns - the lawyers prob want to be paid - they prob all want a good chunk of change$$$ on account, they are doing their jobs and the parties seemingly have agreed. ALL JMO

Well, it's a fair guess to suggest that all his victims have not yet been located ?
Prosecution would look foolish indeed if they released potential evidence because the perpetrator is really a victim and then girls started showing up dead, having been shot, assassination style, would it not?

Under NO circumstances should a single item be released until the case is fully over and complete.

That's a long way off by all accounts.

Realistically an avid gun collector who happens to be an accused serial killer must surely have been tempted to try his hobby collection out on a victim at some stage?

For the same reason he allegedly killed all the other girls.

He likes killing.

I'd give him nothing, not even bread and water, short of a full confession of each and every one of his victims, those known and those unknown.

Not until they all come home.

Not negotiable.
Nothing is more important than locating those victims and prosecuting each and every one.

People are still grieving.
They need to be both prioritised and respected above any other parties.
IMO

 

[Ruminations]

I believe this was already posted upthread but attaching again for those who may have missed it - BBM

Accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann says his family needs his gun collection back, not Nassau

Heuermann's defense lawyers said his family needs the seized 280 firearms, in part because they need the money that could be earned from sale of the valuable antique guns.

www.newsday.com

"Earlier this month, Suffolk County prosecutors sought to turn over to Nassau County more than 280 firearms seized from Heuermann’s home in the days following his July 13 arrest on first and second-degree murder charges in the killings of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy and Amber Lynn Costello, whose remains were found near Gilgo Beach 13 years ago. Heuermann has pleaded not guilty and remains held without bail at the Suffolk County Jail.

Prosecutors have said Heuermann, 60, who worked as a Manhattan architect before his arrest, is also the “prime suspect” in the slaying of Maureen Brainard-Barnes, whose remains were found with the other three victims. All four of the women — the first of 10 sets of remains found along Ocean Parkway that are believed to be the work of one or more serial killers — were sex workers.

Suffolk County Police Department detectives searched Heuermann’s Massapequa Park home, in Nassau County, for 12 days, ending on July 26.

Prosecutors have said they concluded that some of the weapons may have been possessed in violation of state gun laws and “proper jurisdiction” for potential charges would be in Nassau County.

Suffolk prosecutors have not said specifically which sections of New York’s firearms law Heuermann may have violated, but sought to transfer the guns to Nassau after conversations between law enforcement in Nassau, Suffolk, the New York State Police and the FBI. No guns are believed to have been used in the killings for which Heuermann is accused, prosecutors have said."

All JMO

So what? Giving back evidence seized per a search warrent in the middle of an investigation isn't a thing.

The attorneys know it.

<modsnip: Removed personalizing comment>

All the bolded means nothing. Except perhaps that a different LE agency should hold them. Not return them!

MOO

 

[waldojabba]

Yes, LE in Nevada and SC are still investigating Rex's possible involvement in the murders of other women.

Las Vegas police to test Rex Heuermann’s DNA for possible connection to NJ mom’s murder

Victoria Camara, 17, was found dead outside of Las Vegas in August 2003.

nypost.com

‘A strong conviction’: 20 years after slaying, hope for answers emerges

Jodi Brewer’s family and friends think her unsolved 2003 slaying could be connected to Rex Heuermann.

www.reviewjournal.com

Missing South Carolina woman may have met with Gilgo Beach murders suspect, authorities say

A woman missing since 2017 may have met with Rex Heuermann, her daughter told the Sumter County Sheriff's Office.

www.usatoday.com

Yes agree - they are still investigating in other areas for other crimes that may have been committted with any connection to Rex

Ianal, but I suspect the current search warrant and anything collected as a result of that search warrant(ie the guns) is specific to this case- the Gilgo murders.

The Suffolk County prosecutor is quoted as saying the guns are not believed to have been used in connection to the Gilgo murders. I don't think you can legally hold on to the guns in case you come up with another separate crime in the future.

So my guess is, in the event he is arrested for any future crimes, new search warrants will be issueed specific to those crimes.

What the judge decides to do as far as the guns is anybody's guess, but if Suffolk County thought the guns were integral to their investigation/case IMO they definitely would not be releasing them to anybody - at all -not even to Nassau County.

ALL JMO

 

[kittythehare]

Guns weren't used in the murders. Le has to look for another killer. While rex certainly isn't a victim he isn't convicted yet.

Guns may very well have been used in the murders to intimidate if not kill, to make his victims compliant.

There may well be hundreds of other victims out there for all we know and we do not know how they died.

 

[waldojabba]

So what? Giving back evidence seized per a search warrent in the middle of an investigation isn't a thing.

The attorneys know it.

<modsnip: Removed personalizing comment>

All the bolded means nothing. Except perhaps that a different LE agency should hold them. Not return them!

MOO

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

I did not say what should or should not happen to the guns - that's up to the judge - so the judge may well come back and say that "isn't a thing" ~!
I pointed out that the Suffolk prosecutors are quoted as saying the guns are not believed to be used in the Gilgo murders
so they are releasing them to Nassau County to deal with - as per all the articles -
It could not be more simple
Will Nassau release them to the Heuermann's - we will wait and see
JMO

 

[kittythehare]

Yes agree - they are still investigating in other areas for other crimes theat may have been committted with any connection to Rex

Ianal, but I suspect the current search warrant and anything collected as a result of that search warrant(ie the guns) is specific to this case- the Gilgo murders.

The Suffolk County prosecutor is quoted as saying the guns are not believed to have been used in connection to the Gilgo murders. I don't think you can legally hold on to the guns in case you come up with another separate crime in the future.

So my guess is, in the event he is arrested for any future crimes, new search warrants will be issueed specific to those crimes.

What the judge decides to do as far as the guns is anybody's guess, but if Suffolk County thought the guns were integral to their investigation/case IMO they definitely would not be releasing them to anybody - at all -not even to Nassau County.

ALL JMO

no way can they issue new search warrants for guns already seized, released and sold on...
chain of custody.
Surely they have not finished investigating him?

It's a relatively small team they have.
It's possible, I suppose?


Short of a full confession there is no way they should stop investigating him in other missing persons and Jane DOE cases..

Do they have the resources or will?

already giving back things a few months after his arrest is off the Richter scale foolish.


A red herring serving as a distraction for some.

Why is a distraction needed or warranted?

 

[waldojabba]

no way can they issue new search warrants for guns already seized, released and sold on...
chain of custody.
Surely they have not finished investigating him?

It's a relatively small team they have.
It's possible, I suppose?


Short of a full confession there is no way they should stop investigating him in other missing persons and Jane DOE cases..

Do they have the resources or will?

already giving back things a few months after his arrest is off the Richter scale foolish.


A red herring serving as a distraction for some.

Why is a distraction needed or warranted?

There has been no decision to give the guns back.

If Suffolk wanted to hold on to them as they continue their investigation I do not know why they are giving them to Nassau County - only what I read. And indications were that Nassau was going to perhaps to deal with any violations - are the guns registered legal etc. ? It seems curious that Suffolk is relinquishing custody of the guns

What's legal here ? The lawyers are asking for the guns back - if they have no valid argument legally they won't get them back.


JMO

 

[tarastep50]

Guns may very well have been used in the murders to intimidate if not kill, to make his victims compliant.

There may well be hundreds of other victims out there for all we know and we do not know how they died.

Good point intimidation hadn't thought of that.

 

[kittythehare]

There has been no decision to give the guns back.

If Suffolk wanted to hold on to them as they continue their investigation I do not know why they are giving them to Nassau County - only what I read. And indications were that Nassau was going to perhaps to deal with any violations - are the guns registered legal etc. ? It seems curious that Suffolk is relinquishing custody of the guns

What's legal here ? The lawyers are asking for the guns back - if they have no valid argument legally they won't get them back.


JMO

I don't know or care much, I only see it as a distraction.

A side-show.
No more, no less.

 

[Ruminations]

IMO many of these SK's can present as different personalities to different people. BTK called it "cubing" in his interviews Simplistically it's really the same thing as compartmentalizing.

Rex led a secret life. Although we like to think we know that since he was a sadistic serial killer that he was a really punitive husband and father, we really don't know for sure what type of husband and father he was I don't think.

Also as far as I know the divorce is uncontested. We can only make assumptions about their assets. We do know that they had a ot of tax debt from previous threads. The only real estate asset I think he may own free and clear is the vegas time share which I don't think has a high value or big target audience. It's prob just a money suck with all its presumptive fees. The house in Masspq, land in NC , I am betting are either mortgaged to the hilt or have liens on them from the tax debt perhaps.

So in my mind, on their list of assets the $300k ish gun collection has the most value and is the easiest to cash in. Which is not to say that they are not trying to sell other things as well - we just don't have more info to indicate that I don't think. If as stated in the articles, the Suffolk DA petitioned the court to release the guns to Nassau County- that tells me that the guns are not needed as evidence for the case. So what the divorce lawyers are asking is to to skip that step - and return the property to Rex/Asa directly. Maybe the judge decides anything not registered/illegal stays with Nassau the rest back to the family. or something else we will have to wait and see.

What do they need money for - Well first of all, those lawyers don't pay themselves - and we have exhaustively been over what medical could cost etc.

Unraveling that business is another abysmal mess I think. What is there to sell? The value of the business was based on Rex's expertise to ferret out the obscure loopholes in the codes etc. to get difficult real estate/construction approvals. Depending on whether Rex was incorporated/signed for everything personally or how his business was structured, the family may still be on the hook for the lease on the office space, office equipment - and I think a few claims of employees not being paid and who knows what else. Someone - perhaps another lawyer -needs to be paid to unravel all that - maybe even to file bankruptcy for the biz or something to dismiss that debt.

So bottom line I don't find anything nefarious in the two lawyers being in lock step on asking for the guns - the lawyers prob want to be paid - they prob all want a good chunk of change$$$ on account, they are doing their jobs and the parties seemingly have agreed. ALL JMO

I want to point out something about lawyers not being free.

Rex's attorney is literally suggesting giving away property that very likely belongs to him, and could be used to pay Rex's bills, including Rex's lawyers.

NYS is not a community property state when it comes to dividing marital assets. Those firearms could very well be awarded to Rex in a non-contested divorce.


Seriously. When have you ever heard of LE returning evidence in the middle of an investigation? It doesn't happen. And the attorneys know it. They are manipulating public perception to be against LE rather than against sick, sadistic murder.

They want the public to forget that children have grown up without their mothers, people have lost sisters, daughters, cousins, aunts, and very dear friends. So this man could (allegedly) kill them and taunt children with phone calls describing the rape and murder of their beloved big sister. These behaviors are sickening.

LE holding on to evidence is not such behavior. It is typical and fair.

MOO.




MOO

 

[Ruminations]

There has been no decision to give the guns back.

If Suffolk wanted to hold on to them as they continue their investigation I do not know why they are giving them to Nassau County - only what I read. And indications were that Nassau was going to perhaps to deal with any violations - are the guns registered legal etc. ? It seems curious that Suffolk is relinquishing custody of the guns

What's legal here ? The lawyers are asking for the guns back - if they have no valid argument legally they won't get them back.


JMO

The word of the day is FRIVOLOUS.

A motion you know will be lost made simply to discredit LE is an abuse of the court system.

MOO

 

[dotr]

Rex Heuermann: Who is serial killer suspect in Gilgo Beach murders

A Manhattan architect and father-of-two has been arrested in connection to one of the most infamous unsolved serial killer cases along the East Coast. So who really is Rex Heuermann? Rachel Sharp reports

www.the-independent.com

04 August 2023 Rachel Sharp

Map showing proximity of home being searched by police and Gilgo Beach where bodies were found
(Google Maps)

Aerial view of Manorville area where Valerie Mack remains were recovered
(Suffolk County Police Department)

 

[Jurisprudence]

Well then. They shouldn't get divorced. It seems like there is no conflict about the marital assets.

But, if indeed the antiques were inherited by Rex, they would not go to AE in divorce.

Why sell off the guns first? When LE is not finished with them? When the divorce is not final? There are so many assets LE does not have. Like Rex's business, that could be sold. Or the properties in other states? Why not spend the donations?

It is absurd to expect LE to return firearms when a suspect is in custody for murder. Show me one precedent where this has happened . It is absurd to demand to sell off matital assets before a divorce is final. Show me a precedent.

This suspect is being treated typically in terms of search and evidence collection. There is nothing unusual about holding firearms. It is not usual or even ethical to sell off assets that could be non-communal before a separation or divorce agreement is final. There is no reason for this suspect to be treated differently in divorce.

But I don't believe the divorce filing is sincere. IMO, if it were sincere, it would have been filed in Nassau County. Suffolk County is not the appropriate Supreme Court. Neither the plaintiff nor the defendant live there.


MOO

It could be all a ruse.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

My concern with this media campaign about Rex Heuermann and his wife can indirectly elicit public sympathy for Rex, himself.

Rex speaking out publicly through his lawyer, pressuring LE to turn over his guns to her just doesn't sound good. He has no right to pressure LE to do anything. He's not being mistreated, he doesn't deserve special favors. The state has a very strong case against him for the torture and murder of 3, possibly 4 innocent women.

His family may suffer some financial problems because, during the years he was free he never bothered to pay taxes, but instead spent his money on his "hobby" of patronizing and stalking sex workers, then killing them. He's the one who failed his family, not the citizens and government of Suffolk County. He needs to shut up. JMO

JMO

Well said, Betty! Agree 100%

 

[Jurisprudence]

It will be up to the court to decide if the defense's request is approved. If it is not an appropriate request then the judge will rule against it. Defense attorneys file all kinds of motions to help their clients, not all of them are approved by the court. The public's voice will be heard as well, through the prosecution. It will be a fair hearing, IMO.

AE and her adult children are victims and clearly they need finacial assistance and so this effort to acquire and sell the family antique firearms collection is one way they are trying to address the issue. She is not responsible for RH's crimes and financial failures. She has to focus on the situation right now, and what she can do to survive.

I understand your concern, but feeling sympathy for AE is distinct from feeling sympathy for RH, and she should not have to bear the brunt of those in the public who confuse the two.

IMO

Are you aware that she has $55,221 in cash that she didn't have before his arrest? That's very likely $55,221 that she's never had in liquid assets and in that regard, there's a good chance that right now, she may not be struggling financially for the first time in a very long time.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

I have no doubt a judge will make a fair decision for the wife and adult children. But the serial killer, Rex Heuermann, has no right to go to the national news media with his demands. If he wants to help his family, he should zip it. His sense of entitlement and show of bravado are highly inappropriate , given his situation. JMO

Imoo, no reporter worth their salt should have published that unless it was a direct in-person interview in which they asked him questions and got his denial or his claim of the 5th on the record and likewise, reported that.

jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

More to be upset over imo:

"Heuermann's legal costs, which are being paid for by a county defense agency funded by state and local taxpayers, could reach or exceed $1 million, a tab that would cover a vigorous review of the evidence produced by more than a decade of law-enforcement probes into the killings.

“Without a defense investigation he doesn’t stand a chance, because I think the people of Suffolk would convict a pumpkin because of the notoriety of the case and the horrendous nature of the murders,” said Peter Smith, a Northport-based criminal defense lawyer who is also a former prosecutor and police officer.

Gilgo Beach killings: Defense lawyers offer ways to challenge evidence in case against Rex Heuermann