Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[sunspun]

Actually, I've come to a conclusion on this issue (RH's meaning of MISS-LEADERS) that I feel very sure of! And I thought about this a lot. I now think that the meaning is evident when considered in context of the other items he listed around it. MISS-LEADERS shows up when he's talking about things that could become problems (or maybe DID already) when LE makes a connection to something he used or left behind, or the WAY that he did something (his M.O.), that could possibly lead the investigation in his direction or cause LE to see that the murders are linked to the same killer. Like shoe prints or tire tread patterns. Or consistent patterns in modus operandi (M.O.)

So while thinking of these things (problems) that could lead them in his direction, he adds in the item "MISS-LEADERS?", because he realizes that he might be able to purposefully leave behind certain things, or deliberately do certain things differently, to try to divert attention away from him and lead them to look in another direction AWAY from him. Like maybe leaving something like metal shavings behind (if that's not something he normally would ever have any reason to leave behind.) So now they're going to think they need to look at metalworkers or whatever else that "clue" might point to. Maybe purposefully adding in some shoeprints by the body that are smaller than his own shoe size. Maybe if he mutilated a body in a way he never did before, or "packaged" it differently... anything that would help to MISS-LEAD (mislead) authorities into thinking anything other than what might lead them to him, or to link the murders as having been done by the same person.

He knows what "leads" are, and that they're something good to detectives, but bad for him. So I think he came up with the idea of the opposite of leads, which would be bad for them but good for him. Misleads! Or as he called them, MISS-LEADERS.

So I believe that by MISS-LEADERS, he meant anything that would mislead those trying to solve a crime he committed. Things he could come up with that would help him by diverting attention away from him, and also that could offset some of the negatives created by the things he listed as PROBLEMS. So let's say, if he was unable to avoid leaving tire tracks near where he left the body, it could help to offset that problem, if he could somehow leave more tire tracks that looked different from his tires in the same area (don't know how he'd be able to do that, so probably bad example!) But hopefully you get the idea. (I obviously wouldn't make a good SK because that was the only other example I could think of!) But I feel there would be many other ways if he gave that some thought.

And I think that's what he thought too when he wrote that on his list. And I think it's followed by a question mark, because this was something that he may have only just thought of when making the list, or something that still needed fleshed out (bad choice of words, ugh). So something he still had to think about before doing. Something that he thought of that would probably be helpful, but he still needed to study on more before he knew whether it was a good idea or not.

It seems like it came into his mind as he listed all these things that were potential problems and might get him caught... UNLESS... unless there were things he could do to MISLEAD them on to a different investigative path, leading anywhere but to him. And he obviously thinks he's this super-genius, smarter than all LE anyway, and he may have started thinking he could basically tell them what or how to think, just by purposefully leaving them clues that were really anti- clues! So that he could claw back some of that control that he always felt he had to have in any situation IMO. Committing such barbaric and wild, crazy acts had to necessarily involve giving up some control over the situation, since things never go exactly as planned or the way he'd like them to, since his prey was HUMANS, known to be unpredictable, to put it mildly. Identifying and employing some clever (to him) misleading items or actions, etc. could give him back some of that lost control, allowing him to steer the investigation away from himself

I don't know if I've managed to explain this very well, but I will add that I think it's a very good idea for someone in his position to use, if he thinks about it enough and comes up with some ideas of things that would be good misleaders. It would certainly add confusion, which would make it less easy to solve, and it might even get someone else blamed for crimes he did! If he did it right. Which would be a terrible thing, for everyone, except of course, for him. For him, that'd be the best thing. Anyway, I'm no good at explaining things, but I thought I had to try anyway. I really do think this is what he meant.

 

[x_files]

Actually, I've come to a conclusion on this issue (RH's meaning of MISS-LEADERS) that I feel very sure of! And I thought about this a lot. I now think that the meaning is evident when considered in context of the other items he listed around it. MISS-LEADERS shows up when he's talking about things that could become problems (or maybe DID already) when LE makes a connection to something he used or left behind, or the WAY that he did something (his M.O.), that could possibly lead the investigation in his direction or cause LE to see that the murders are linked to the same killer. Like shoe prints or tire tread patterns. Or consistent patterns in modus operandi (M.O.)

So while thinking of these things (problems) that could lead them in his direction, he adds in the item "MISS-LEADERS?", because he realizes that he might be able to purposefully leave behind certain things, or deliberately do certain things differently, to try to divert attention away from him and lead them to look in another direction AWAY from him. Like maybe leaving something like metal shavings behind (if that's not something he normally would ever have any reason to leave behind.) So now they're going to think they need to look at metalworkers or whatever else that "clue" might point to. Maybe purposefully adding in some shoeprints by the body that are smaller than his own shoe size. Maybe if he mutilated a body in a way he never did before, or "packaged" it differently... anything that would help to MISS-LEAD (mislead) authorities into thinking anything other than what might lead them to him, or to link the murders as having been done by the same person.

He knows what "leads" are, and that they're something good to detectives, but bad for him. So I think he came up with the idea of the opposite of leads, which would be bad for them but good for him. Misleads! Or as he called them, MISS-LEADERS.

So I believe that by MISS-LEADERS, he meant anything that would mislead those trying to solve a crime he committed. Things he could come up with that would help him by diverting attention away from him, and also that could offset some of the negatives created by the things he listed as PROBLEMS. So let's say, if he was unable to avoid leaving tire tracks near where he left the body, it could help to offset that problem, if he could somehow leave more tire tracks that looked different from his tires in the same area (don't know how he'd be able to do that, so probably bad example!) But hopefully you get the idea. (I obviously wouldn't make a good SK because that was the only other example I could think of!) But I feel there would be many other ways if he gave that some thought.

And I think that's what he thought too when he wrote that on his list. And I think it's followed by a question mark, because this was something that he may have only just thought of when making the list, or something that still needed fleshed out (bad choice of words, ugh). So something he still had to think about before doing. Something that he thought of that would probably be helpful, but he still needed to study on more before he knew whether it was a good idea or not.

It seems like it came into his mind as he listed all these things that were potential problems and might get him caught... UNLESS... unless there were things he could do to MISLEAD them on to a different investigative path, leading anywhere but to him. And he obviously thinks he's this super-genius, smarter than all LE anyway, and he may have started thinking he could basically tell them what or how to think, just by purposefully leaving them clues that were really anti- clues! So that he could claw back some of that control that he always felt he had to have in any situation IMO. Committing such barbaric and wild, crazy acts had to necessarily involve giving up some control over the situation, since things never go exactly as planned or the way he'd like them to, since his prey was HUMANS, known to be unpredictable, to put it mildly. Identifying and employing some clever (to him) misleading items or actions, etc. could give him back some of that lost control, allowing him to steer the investigation away from himself

I don't know if I've managed to explain this very well, but I will add that I think it's a very good idea for someone in his position to use, if he thinks about it enough and comes up with some ideas of things that would be good misleaders. It would certainly add confusion, which would make it less easy to solve, and it might even get someone else blamed for crimes he did! If he did it right. Which would be a terrible thing, for everyone, except of course, for him. For him, that'd be the best thing. Anyway, I'm no good at explaining things, but I thought I had to try anyway. I really do think this is what he meant.

Makes sense to me!

 

[Just K]

Makes sense to me!

My theory which depends on misleading clues, basically comes down to attacking some victims right after they’ve been with someone else. I also think that the WH belt was a mislead and it surely wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t leave the creepy punishment dolls by the GB4 or the wood chips on the two victims that Bittrolff was found guilty of killing. Also changing up his murder weapons and means, sometimes strangulation, sometimes smashing heads in, sometimes stabbing them or mutilating parts of them, sometimes dismembering and possibly, in the early days, even flashing his lights at women driving alone to get them to pull over- acting helpful, getting them in his truck and then knocking them out or strangling them. Also, killing men and women and dumping them in areas known for gang or mafia body dumps or in abandoned buildings known for drug users and homeless people. He even left some clothed, some half naked and others naked. He changed up the wrappings he used on more recent victims. The few things that didn’t seem to change were him leaving victims outside and driving a pickup truck. This creature seems to have studied many notorious SKs and wanted to do his own version of a greatest hits.

 

[fred&edna]

I wonder if podcaster Morf has any additional information from his acquaintance (who went on duck-hunting trips with RH)?!

 

[x_files]

My theory which depends on misleading clues, basically comes down to attacking some victims right after they’ve been with someone else. I also think that the WH belt was a mislead and it surely wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t leave the creepy punishment dolls by the GB4 or the wood chips on the two victims that Bittrolff was found guilty of killing. Also changing up his murder weapons and means, sometimes strangulation, sometimes smashing heads in, sometimes stabbing them or mutilating parts of them, sometimes dismembering and possibly, in the early days, even flashing his lights at women driving alone to get them to pull over- acting helpful, getting them in his truck and then knocking them out or strangling them. Also, killing men and women and dumping them in areas known for gang or mafia body dumps or abandoned buildings known for drug users and homeless people. He even left some clothed, some half naked and others naked. He changed up the wrappings he used on more recent victims. The few things that didn’t seem to change were him leaving victims outside and driving a pickup truck. This creature seems to have studied many notorious SKs and wanted to do his own version of a greatest hits.

I haven't followed the Bittroilff cases so I'm out of the loop.
Ok, I have a question about this:
"the creepy punishment dolls by the GB4"
I agree if he constantly changed his MO, it would be much harder to connect the dots esp. without DNA or hair.
I think SKs have caught onto the MO and would diversify to NOT get caught.

 

[Just K]

I wonder if podcaster Morf has any additional information from his acquaintance (who went on duck-hunting trips with RH)?!

That’s news to me. Morf knows someone who hunted with RH?

 

[fred&edna]

That’s news to me. Morf knows someone who hunted with RH?

It was posted on one of the earliest threads. I'll go on search for it.

ETA: Thread 2 Post 1005

Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #2

Mother issues are a huge RED FLAG! I have noticed many serial killers despised their own mothers have blamed them if the father abused them both. Mother issues are a huge RED FLAG! I have noticed many serial killers despised their own mothers have blamed them if the father abused them both...

www.websleuths.com

And, this notification appears on every thread.

Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 6 murders, July 2023 #14

In my our lifetime, an arrest is made for LISK! 10 victims Friday’s reported arrest came after Suffolk County’s new police commissioner created a special Gilgo Beach Homicide Investigation Task Force in February last year Gilgo Beach, LISK serial killings suspect in police custody Thread...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Just K]

It was posted on one of the earliest threads. I'll go on search for it.

ETA: Thread 2 Post 1005

Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #2

Mother issues are a huge RED FLAG! I have noticed many serial killers despised their own mothers have blamed them if the father abused them both. Mother issues are a huge RED FLAG! I have noticed many serial killers despised their own mothers have blamed them if the father abused them both...

www.websleuths.com

I found it:
Post in thread 'Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #2'
Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #2

I don’t know how I missed these posts. I’ve been on every thread since the arrest.

 

[Teche]

Didn’t LE decide to arrest RH sooner for fear that he was preparing to hunt?

RH had to be scheduling dates with sex workers when the family was home. These bodies have to be the tip of the iceberg.

 

[minazoe]

My theory which depends on misleading clues, basically comes down to attacking some victims right after they’ve been with someone else. I also think that the WH belt was a mislead and it surely wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t leave the creepy punishment dolls by the GB4 or the wood chips on the two victims that Bittrolff was found guilty of killing. Also changing up his murder weapons and means, sometimes strangulation, sometimes smashing heads in, sometimes stabbing them or mutilating parts of them, sometimes dismembering and possibly, in the early days, even flashing his lights at women driving alone to get them to pull over- acting helpful, getting them in his truck and then knocking them out or strangling them. Also, killing men and women and dumping them in areas known for gang or mafia body dumps or in abandoned buildings known for drug users and homeless people. He even left some clothed, some half naked and others naked. He changed up the wrappings he used on more recent victims. The few things that didn’t seem to change were him leaving victims outside and driving a pickup truck. This creature seems to have studied many notorious SKs and wanted to do his own version of a greatest hits.

I like the idea about attacking a victim right after she has been with someone else. Makes me think of SG and how she
was being chased by someone and trying to hide under a boat after leaving Michael Brewer's house for a "date" mOO

 

[Just K]

I like the idea about attacking a victim right after she has been with someone else. Makes me think of SG and how she
was being chased by someone and trying to hide under a boat after leaving Michael Brewer's house for a "date" mOO

Yes, because there are two elements that we know the killer employed. He stalked at least two of the Gilgo 4 victims and he seems to have groomed some of them. ALC saw him more than once. Melissa B’s bf thought she saw a regular on LI.

The killer seems to be a lurker. Lingering around outside or on just on the periphery of gatherings and group activities, etc. I suspect he watched his prey and once he settled on someone, he paid close attention to there patterns and the people they worked with and for. We know that he called MBB’s BF, after her disappearance and took pleasure in describing Johnny’s tattoos and distinguishing features. JT and maybe MBB’s little sister said he sounded drunk.

 

[minazoe]

early on when we all started trying to figure this out...I posted here somewhere that I thought this guy had to be big and at least 6'4" in order to handle the terrain in the marsh , that he probably tied up the bodies in a way so he could pitch them off the back of his pick up and over the bramble where they were found. If you were tall enough you could swing and pitch into the area where they were discovered.
Im not sure if that's really possible, but it's what I envisioned..well he sure is tall and has a big old pick up..yep. so maybe..I definitely think he stalked and groomed his victims. I think he called Shannon's family , I think he is an outrageously bold killer and has taken some serious chances which may be why he started making lists and organizing further. mOO

 

[Ruminations]

Wow! Macedonio went full on Rex defense team in a Court TV episode. I will link it if that source is allowed.

He went on a mini- rampage that the houses in Massapequa Park are "Like 20 feet apart from each other. How is he [Rex] getting bodies in and out of there?"

(Quote may not be exact, it's from memory.)

Macedonio appeared to me to be using his air time to do what Rex's attorney should be doing.

He also said Rex was the third perp fingered by John Ray. As if the other two didn't pan out, why would this one. Macedonia was treating John Ray like the prosecutor, and sowing doubt.

In reality, there is something very suspicious about the three people Macedonia said John Ray pointed to. PH clearly inserted himself suspiciously into Shannan's murder; Burke actually did time and did interfere severely in the LISK investigation. The evidence against Rex appears extremely convincing. So it's not like the people who John Ray pointed out were frivolous. It is disgraceful that Macedonia would mock pointing to PH, Burke or Rex Heuermann.

Who is paying Macedonio to defend Rex Heuermann?

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

My theory which depends on misleading clues, basically comes down to attacking some victims right after they’ve been with someone else. I also think that the WH belt was a mislead and it surely wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t leave the creepy punishment dolls by the GB4 or the wood chips on the two victims that Bittrolff was found guilty of killing. Also changing up his murder weapons and means, sometimes strangulation, sometimes smashing heads in, sometimes stabbing them or mutilating parts of them, sometimes dismembering and possibly, in the early days, even flashing his lights at women driving alone to get them to pull over- acting helpful, getting them in his truck and then knocking them out or strangling them. Also, killing men and women and dumping them in areas known for gang or mafia body dumps or in abandoned buildings known for drug users and homeless people. He even left some clothed, some half naked and others naked. He changed up the wrappings he used on more recent victims. The few things that didn’t seem to change were him leaving victims outside and driving a pickup truck. This creature seems to have studied many notorious SKs and wanted to do his own version of a greatest hits.

Totally agreed om all of this, he changes things up to his advantage. The only one on the list I'd say is maybe a little different is the belt. I view that more as some weird thing going on "in his head" where he wants to express himself along the lines of a signature, and to me it lines up in a strange way with the "cabinetmaker's hammer" he mentions in his interview. (I'd be watching at some point for a victim bludgeoned with a hammer.) But could belt be in a way a small part, too, of this larger formulation to "switch things up"? Sure because to our knowledge, he doesn't always leave something like that.

I thought for a while the dolls were him, then were not him because I figured there's no way he was that blatant/flagrant. Right, he's that blatant/flagrant. So maybe so.

Totally agreed with you that RH likes to play "confuse a cop."

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Wow! Macedonio went full on Rex defense team in a Court TV episode. I will link it if that source is allowed.

He went on a mini- rampage that the houses in Massapequa Park are "Like 20 feet apart from each other. How is he [Rex] getting bodies in and out of there?"

(Quote may not be exact, it's from memory.)

Macedonio appeared to me to be using his air time to do what Rex's attorney should be doing.

He also said Rex was the third perp fingered by John Ray. As if the other two didn't pan out, why would this one. Macedonia was treating John Ray like the prosecutor, and sowing doubt.

In reality, is something very suspicious about the three people Macedonia said John Ray pointed to. PH clearing inserted himself suspiciously into Shannan's murder; Burke actually did time and did interfere severely in the LISK investigation. The evidence against Rex appears extremely convincing. So it's not like the people who John Ray pointed out were frivolous. It is disgraceful that Macedonia would mock pointing to PH, Burke or Rex Heuermann.

Who is paying Macedonio to defend Rex Heuermann?

MOO

Good thoughts Ruminations! Preface my thoughts with IANAL.

IMO I too have been puzzled by some statements of the lawyers for some family members in this matter. At times it seems they are speaking for an individual that is not even their client. At least that was thought to be the case? Yet at least one of the lawyers IIRC has negotiated a deal with a network crime show for a documented expose. Perhaps that also affects certain decisions or statements IMO?

Wonder if perhaps some of the alleged victims of this defendant might want to consider a civil case against RH and all of his financial holdings and perhaps any others holding property with him? Maybe such activity would elicit testimony to help understand the ‘landscape’ in this case? MOO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Didn’t LE decide to arrest RH sooner for fear that he was preparing to hunt?

RH had to be scheduling dates with sex workers when the family was home. These bodies have to be the tip of the iceberg.

I think it's safe to assume that RH had 100's of dates with sex workers. I don't believe all of those workers were murdered by him, though. it would be nothing for him to tell his wife he had to work a little late, book a date, and be home at a reasonable time.

 

[fred&edna]

I think it's safe to assume that RH had 100's of dates with sex workers. I don't believe all of those workers were murdered by him, though. it would be nothing for him to tell his wife he had to work a little late, book a date, and be home at a reasonable time.

And, add... some wives know and accept what their spouse does away from home, and/or opt to ignore spouse absences for a myriad of reasons.

jmo

 

[Just K]

Yes, because there are two elements that we know the killer employed. He stalked at least two of the Gilgo 4 victims and he seems to have groomed some of them. ALC saw him more than once. Melissa B’s bf thought she saw a regular on LI.

The killer seems to be a lurker. Lingering around outside or on just on the periphery of gatherings and group activities, etc. I suspect he watched his prey and once he settled on someone, he paid close attention to there patterns and the people they worked with and for. We know that he called MBB’s BF, after her disappearance and took pleasure in describing Johnny’s tattoos and distinguishing features. JT and maybe MBB’s little sister said he sounded drunk.

Correction: MB not MBB. Couldn’t edit original post.

 

[Just K]

Wow! Macedonio went full on Rex defense team in a Court TV episode. I will link it if that source is allowed.

He went on a mini- rampage that the houses in Massapequa Park are "Like 20 feet apart from each other. How is he [Rex] getting bodies in and out of there?"

(Quote may not be exact, it's from memory.)

Macedonio appeared to me to be using his air time to do what Rex's attorney should be doing.

He also said Rex was the third perp fingered by John Ray. As if the other two didn't pan out, why would this one. Macedonia was treating John Ray like the prosecutor, and sowing doubt.

In reality, there is something very suspicious about the three people Macedonia said John Ray pointed to. PH clearly inserted himself suspiciously into Shannan's murder; Burke actually did time and did interfere severely in the LISK investigation. The evidence against Rex appears extremely convincing. So it's not like the people who John Ray pointed out were frivolous. It is disgraceful that Macedonia would mock pointing to PH, Burke or Rex Heuermann.

Who is paying Macedonio to defend Rex Heuermann?

MOO

Macedonia, with his close brush with legal sanctions due to being accused or was it investigated for criminal activities, very well could have crossed paths with so many in SCPD, Spota and Burke by default (he was Spota’s boy) and his close affiliation with the SC “partying scene.” He may have a very good motive to protect influential people who may have been loosely or closely associated with RH. We don’t know why he affixed himself to AE but we know of his past. He has acted as if he is AE’s lawyer and later VH’s representative. Why when Mitev is supposed to represent the adult children? Is someone in the old boy network pushing or guiding him in order to muddy the prosecution of RH? For now, we don’t know but his current behavior certainly suggests that that is the case. It just feels like for one reason or another SCPD knew who the killer was and for reasons only they know they were stalling the investigation. All while the killer continued in his sick merry ways.

 

[Izzylizzy]

It would be interesting if the press could somehow get interviews with both AE’s first husband and RH’s first wife. That could prove very informative.

Beyond a doubt but maybe LE asked ER and assuming that they spoke with Asa's ex-husband to please not speak with the media it's an ongoing investigation.
We don't know anything about the ex who is CS's dad and hopefully if they didn't have a relationship they do now.
Something tells me that's wishful thinking because his dad has never been mentioned by the media.
I haven't even read that he was found and asked for a comment etc.
I could have missed it.