Globe and Linda Arndt/FFJ Article

[sissi]

What about Steve's depo, wasn't he caught in the lie saying Patsy's handwriting changed after the murder? and....wasn't this found to be untrue?
You do know ......

9 that there were other experts that reviewed

10 Patsy Ramsey's handwriting and did not find

11 evidence of authorship, true?

12 A. Who were those?

13 Q. Do you think there were not three

14 other people that looked at this and did not

15 find that there was evidence to find that she

16 wrote the note?

17 A. I don't know who you're referring

18 to.

19 Q. Well, there was a Secret Service

20 examiner, Mr. Dusak?

21 A. Right.

22 Q. Speckin Laboratories?

23 A. Mr. Speckin, yes.

24 Q. Right. And there is one other,

25 help me. I can pull it if you want me to?





212



1 A. Alfred, Alford, Edwin Alford.

2 Q. Did you look at their conclusions

3 and remember them?

4 A. I did.

5 Q. What was Mr. Dusak's conclusion?

6 A. Mr. Dusak, I believe, his official

7 conclusion on his report for courtroom

8 purposes was no evidence to indicate.

9 Q. No evidence to indicate that Patsy

10 Ramsey executed any of the questioned material

11 appearing on the ransom note, was that

12 Mr. Dusak's conclusion?

13 A. Among other things.

14 Q. And he was a document analyst for

15 the United States Secret Service, right?

16 A. Right.

17 Q. Then we have Mr. Edwin F. Alford,

18 Jr., police expert, examination of the

19 questioned handwriting, comparison of the

20 handwriting specimen submitted has failed to

21 provide a basis for identifying Patsy Ramsey

22 as the writer of the letter. Is that his

23 conclusion?

24 A. I remember Mr. Dusak. If you

25 have a document that would help --





213



1 Q. This is Mr. Alford.

2 A. I know. I remember Mr. Dusak.

3 If you have a document that would help me

4 refresh my memory on Mr. Alford, I don't

5 recall --

6 Q. Not beyond what I have just told

7 you, but if that helps you refresh you one

8 way or the other what I've just told you is

9 I believe Mr. Alford concluded?

10 A. Will you repeat his --

11 Q. Sure.

12 A. -- what he concluded.

13 Q. The examination of the questioned

14 handwriting comparison with the handwriting

15 specimen submitted has failed to provide a

16 basis for identifying Patricia Ramsey as the

17 writer of the letter?

18 A. If that's what the report says.

19 I certainly don't disagree with --

20 MR. DIAMOND: He's asking you

21 whether that refreshes your recollection.

22 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Do you recall

23 Mr. Alford coming to that conclusion?

24 A. To a -- yeah, I think that's the

25 conclusion.





214



1 Q. And then Leonard A. Speckin, he

2 said that he found no evidence that Patsy

3 Ramsey disguised her handwriting exemplars.

4 Did you -- were you aware of that conclusion

5 by Mr. Speckin, a police expert?

6 A. Among other conclusions, yes.

7 Q. You understood enough about the

8 handwriting analysis that a legitimate

9 handwriting questioned document examiner

10 analyzes not just similarities, but also has

11 to analyze and account for dissimilarities,

12 right?

13 A. If you say so, Mr. Wood, I'm

14 not --

15 Q. I'm asking you, sir.

16 A. No, I'm not a handwriting expert

17 and don't purport to be.

18 Q. So you can't --

19 A. If you're asking me about my

20 layman's knowledge about handwriting science I

21 would be happy to answer your question.

22 Q. I'm asking you about your

23 understanding of the science when you were

24 the, quote, one of the lead detectives. Did

25 you not listen to what the experts were





215



1 saying and what their bases were and did you

2 not grasp the fundamental idea when you were

3 listening that they were saying we've got to

4 analyze both similarities and dissimilarities?

5 MR. DIAMOND: Objection.

6 Compound. You may answer.

7 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Did you understand

8 that to be the case or not?

9 A. That was among many things that I

10 understood them to look at.

11 Q. Thank you. Do you know the

12 names? You gave me a couple but for the

13 record I would like to make sure I've got

14 them. I would like to get the names of the

15 Boulder police officers who took over in

16 effect the Chris Wolf case. You gave me a

17 couple; let's make sure we've got them all.

18 Could you give them to me now on the record?

19 A. I think Commander Beckner assigned

20 Detective Carey Weinheimer to complete the

21 Chris Wolf investigation in early to spring

22 of '98.

23 Q. Anyone else?

source..taped depo..transcribed..acandyrose

 

[aRnd2it]

Got that, Bluecrab? aRnd2it knows more than 6 experts who get paid to do this for a living? ROTFLMAOTIME

Actually I know ONE, DocWatson...which is obviously one more than you do since you're wrong as usual.

The person I spoke with confirmed exactly what Leonard Speckin said: Patsy Ramsey will never be identified as the author of the ransom note because she wrote it in DISGUISED WRITING. Nobody can positively identify ANY author writing in DISGUISED HANDWRITING. However, just as Speckin was ready to testify to, so many of Patsy's examplars match the note that the chances someone else wrote it are ZERO.

That may be too much for you to comprehend DocWatson, so let me put into simpler terms that were also explained to me: "If Abe Lincoln had, as a joke, written the Gettysburg Address in disguised handwriting, there would be experts today that would testify he didn't write it, as well as other experts who would be accusing him of outright plagiarism."

In other words, BlueCrab's "six experts" don't amount to a hill of beans in this case. I suggest you wander over to ACR's arcive and look at the matching exemplars yourself. If you don't see how they match what is in the note, it's time you get your eyes examined because you have a serious problem with your vision.

 

[sissi]

From deposition...Arnd2it? this says the opposite! A= Steve Thomas response


Q. And then Leonard A. Speckin, he

2 said that he found no evidence that Patsy

3 Ramsey disguised her handwriting exemplars.

4 Did you -- were you aware of that conclusion

5 by Mr. Speckin, a police expert?

6 A. Among other conclusions, yes.

and.......During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts. (SMF 1 191; PSMF 1 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey. (SMF 205; PSMF , 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants. (SMF , 191; PSMF , 191.) All six experts agreed that Mr. Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF 194; PSMF 194.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF 195; PSMF 195.) Rather, the experts' consensus was that she "probably did not" write the Ransom Note. (SMF , 196; PSMF 196.)14 On a scale of one to five, with five being elimination as

========================================

14 Chet Ubowski of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation concluded that the evidence fell short of that needed to support a conclusion that Mrs. Ramsey wrote the note. (SMF 197; PSMF , 197.) Leonard Speckin, a private forensic document examiner, concluded that differences between the writing of Mrs. Ramsey's handwriting and the author of the Ransom Note prevented him from identifying Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note, but he was unable to eliminate her. (SMF 198; PSMF 198.) Edwin Alford, a private forensic document examiner, states the evidence fell short of that needed to support a conclusion that Mrs. Ramsey wrote the note. (SMF 197; PSMF 197.) Richard Dusick of the U.S. Secret Service concluded that there was "no evidence to indicate that Patsy Ramsey executed any of the questioned material appearing on the [R]ansom [N]ote." (SMF 200; PSMF 200.) Lloyd Cunningham, a private forensic document examiner hired by defendants, concluded that there were no


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 22

the author of the Ransom Note, the experts placed Mrs. Ramsey at a 4.5 or a 4.0. (SMF 203; PSMF 203.) The experts described the chance of Mrs. Ramsey being the author of the Ransom Note as "very low." (SMF . 204; PSMF 1 204.) The two experts hired by defendants both assert that this evidence strongly suggests that Mrs. Ramsey did not write the Note. (SMF 254.)


In contrast.......steve's(oops Wolfe's) experts never had the original to examine...

Plaintiff, however, asserts that his retained experts believe Mrs. Ramsey to be the author of the Ransom Note. Indeed, Gideon Epstein and Cina Wong, the handwriting experts proffered by plaintiff, opine that they are "100 percent certain" Mrs. Ramsey wrote the Ransom Note. (SMF 256: PSMF 256; PSDMF 1-2.) In contrast to the experts relied upon by defendants and by the Boulder Police Department, however, neither of these experts have ever seen or examined the original Ransom Note. (SMF 256; PSMF 256.) In fact, Mr. Epstein and Ms. Wong do not know what "generation" copy of the Ransom Note they examined. (SMF , 257; PSMF , 257.) Ms. Wong received her copy of the Ransom Note and certain writings alleged to be historical writings of Mrs. Ramsey from the tabloid, The National Enquirer. (SMF 258; PSMF 258.) Although it is widely considered "very important" to consult the

 

[aRnd2it]

From deposition...Arnd2it? this says the opposite! A= Steve Thomas response|

If you're so interested in Thomas' opinion Sissi, read in his book what he says about what Speckin was going to testify to.
Then notice his "Among other conclusions" in his deposition.

And finally, check out Patsy's examplars yourself. If you don't see a match between them and the ransom note - you need an eye exam.

 

[DocWatson]

Actually I know ONE, DocWatson...which is obviously one more than you do since you're wrong as usual.

The person I spoke with confirmed exactly what Leonard Speckin said: Patsy Ramsey will never be identified as the author of the ransom note because she wrote it in DISGUISED WRITING. Nobody can positively identify ANY author writing in DISGUISED HANDWRITING. However, just as Speckin was ready to testify to, so many of Patsy's examplars match the note that the chances someone else wrote it are ZERO.

That may be too much for you to comprehend DocWatson, so let me put into simpler terms that were also explained to me: "If Abe Lincoln had, as a joke, written the Gettysburg Address in disguised handwriting, there would be experts today that would testify he didn't write it, as well as other experts who would be accusing him of outright plagiarism."

In other words, BlueCrab's "six experts" don't amount to a hill of beans in this case. I suggest you wander over to ACR's arcive and look at the matching exemplars yourself. If you don't see how they match what is in the note, it's time you get your eyes examined because you have a serious problem with your vision.

Let me get this straight: Patsy DISGUISED her handwriting, thereby cleverly fooling handwriting experts who presumably are expert enough to see through disguises since after all, they do this for a living and surely they must have run across cases in which there were efforts to disguise one's real handwriting. And yet this DISGUISED writing of Patsy's apparently is so OBVIOUSLY similar to her own REAL writing that ANYONE with clear vision should be able to see with 100 PERCENT CERTAINTY that the RN and Patsy exemplars were written by the same person. Leonard Spackin says that "NOBODY can positively identify ANY author writing in disguised handwriting, yet in this case aRnd2it has done just this!!!! Remarkable.

 

[aRnd2it]

Let me get this straight: Patsy DISGUISED her handwriting, thereby cleverly fooling handwriting experts who presumably are expert enough to see through disguises since after all, they do this for a living and surely they must have run across cases in which there were efforts to disguise one's real handwriting.

Where do you get the idea that handwriting experts identify disguised writing for a living? Is this another one of your myths dragged over from the liars forum? Gee, could it be the whole point of disguising your writing might be so that it CAN'T be identified? Naaaa...that wouldn't make any sense to a woman who was writing a fake note to coverup a murder, now would it...

It's clear this sleuthing stuff is WAY above my pay grade.

Finally--Something we can all agree on! :woohoo:

 

[Seeker]

Thanks to Tricia, Deja, WY, & ACR for putting it all together and putting it up for everyone to read (the depo at ACR's). That was very generous of all of them to coordinate this effort just so we could see what she actually said.

When I read the Arndt depo it just solidified my original estimation of her.

I watched her on GMA bugging her eyes out and looking all crazy, well her depo confirms it for me.
She's paranoid and blames everyone else for everything that has ever gone wrong for her it seems.
She failed and won't, or can't take responsibility for her failure.
She had control of the house, instead of making everyone except the Ramsey's leave she allowed them all to stay and then blamed the rest of the department for her failure to control the scene. I've said this from the get go and I stand by my observations of her actions.

She wasn't the first officer on the scene, but she was the detective left in charge....at that point she had all the authority on what should be done, and what shouldn't.
She messed up and was in way over her head. I don't know why she didn't just follow basic protocol and remove all non-essentials, but she didn't.

 

[JBRMod2]

I have edited several posts on this thread to remove ad hominem attacks. Please continue with the excellent discussion without the attacks.

 

[scandi]

In starting to study up on this case, I found what I thought was an interesting article: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/singular/case_5.html?sect=7
Snipet

"Q: If it were possible for you to reopen the investigation and start over, what specific factors would you focus on?

I'd focus on the conflict surrounding John Ramsey in the immediate aftermath of the murder. And on the leads provided by the California woman. And on why the Ramseys won't touch her information, which appears to exonerate them. I'd focus on the adults around JonBenet who were behaving inappropriately before she died and I would apply some pressure to them. No known person, in my view, killed JonBenet. But known people do have information about who murdered her. You'll never get that information until you start asking the right questions and backing them up with some weight. This has never, to my knowledge, happened in Boulder. The cops there have spent all their time trying to muscle Patsy Ramsey and this has led nowhere. The best polygraphists in the country have now concluded she didn't kill her daughter or write the ransom note. So let's try something new. When the rats think the ship is starting to leak, they'll start jumping and squeaking".



I also wondered why no psychic has come forward to show her killer. You would think with all of their proven ability in working with LE {I've been watching the Psychic Detectives which has amazed me! } they would volunteer to help solve the mystery. It could be because they have not been invited by the family or Boulder police dept.

Who is the California woman? The bowl of pineapple with John & Patricia's fingerprints on the bowl and the fruit still in her stomach? What about Burke's friend?


Scandi

PS: I know the problem with coming into this 8 year old case is that everything under the sun has been discussed at length. Sorry!

 

[sissi]

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon060400.htm

I watched the program the day Allison and her sketch artist came up with this, yet later it was suggested the Ramseys paid her for her help??

 

[close_enough]

The person I spoke with confirmed exactly what Leonard Speckin said: Patsy Ramsey will never be identified as the author of the ransom note because she wrote it in DISGUISED WRITING. Nobody can positively identify ANY author writing in DISGUISED HANDWRITING. However, just as Speckin was ready to testify to, so many of Patsy's examplars match the note that the chances someone else wrote it are ZERO

that makes sense to me...i've always thought it was her writing, but she tried to change the way she wrote...

 

[DocWatson]

I also wondered why no psychic has come forward to show her killer. You would think with all of their proven ability in working with LE {I've been watching the Psychic Detectives which has amazed me! } they would volunteer to help solve the mystery. It could be because they have not been invited by the family or Boulder police dept.[\QUOTE]

You need to be more skeptical. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_2_28/ai_114090218

Psychics were an absymal failure in the Chandra Levy case (even though thousands took a crack at it!). http://static.highbeam.com/s/skepti...cswrongaboutchandralevynewsandcommentbriefar/

Indeed, the mere fact that hundreds or thousands of psychics reach DIFFERENT conclusions about a known event is proof-positive that psychics are a crock. If psychics truly could divine the future or "see" the truth of a past event, they all would make the SAME prediction! If you took 1000 thermometers out, you'd of course get some slight variations in the measured temperature, but you sure wouldn't get 1 thermometer saying it's freezing and another saying it was 90 degrees (unless 1 was broken). And if you acknowledged that even some or most psychics are frauds or dead wrong, then you're left with the dilemma of how to prove which psychics are "genuine." Do you know of any such test?

Psychics will never solve the mystery of JBR. DNA evidence and/or good sleuthing might.

 

[DocWatson]

The person I spoke with confirmed exactly what Leonard Speckin said: Patsy Ramsey will never be identified as the author of the ransom note because she wrote it in DISGUISED WRITING. Nobody can positively identify ANY author writing in DISGUISED HANDWRITING. However, just as Speckin was ready to testify to, so many of Patsy's examplars match the note that the chances someone else wrote it are ZERO

that makes sense to me...i've always thought it was her writing, but she tried to change the way she wrote...

Doesn't it strike you as odd that Patsy's handwriting was DISGUISED yet hundreds of posters here are so clever or perceptive that they can SEE THROUGH this disguise and reach the conclusion that they are 100% certain Patsy wrote the RN?

The reality is that the handwriting was WAY too consistent to be credibly viewed as disguised writing, hence believing Speckin's claim is simply a convenient way of ignoring the truth.

 

[twizzler333]

The Globe article is absolutely absurd! First of all, on the cover they are showing pictures of JBR's closet and caption it with "The killer hid in here!"...then they all but call John the killer! Give me a break! As IF he would have to hide in her closet! I don't believe a word in that stupid article (if you can call it that). I believe the people believe what they said but I think they are just simply wrong in this case. The truth is about to come out, and I for one, cannot wait to see how many of these RDI's will actually consider that they were wrong. IMO I tend to think they will not believe it even if the perp comes out on national television and confesses and tells exactly what they did and how they did it and tells them that they wrote the note and not Patsy....RDI's will just claim the perp is lying! Oh me.....will be so glad when this is finally over. And I believe a psychic probably already knows who did this. They probably told the BDP and they ignored them too!

 

[DocWatson]

And I believe a psychic probably already knows who did this. They probably told the BDP and they ignored them too!

Memo to self: ignore all twizzler333 posts. S/he believes in psychics notwithstanding the mountains of evidence demonstrating they are worthless in aiding LE investigations. A monkey flipping a coin would have a more accurate track record than psychics do in solving crimes.

 

[mihaff]

IMO the note was a plea for John to leave the house. Notice the note never mentions Patsy at all by name or as wife. My theory is that John was asleep as he said and an accident happened, perhaps due to an intentional act by either P or B or an unknown. I think patsy cared for her and when she thought she was dead Patsy staged the garoted body. SHe needed John to leave the house so she could drop the body on some road somewhere. JOhn reacted like you would expect and told her to call the police. Before they arrived (perhaps Patsy admitted it) or soon after they arrived John realized what had happened and decided to go along to protect someone - one of the other two perhaps. If John had done it, he would have dumped the body before calling the police. For a woman it would have been a bigger task and she wanted John to leave so she wouldn't be seen. If she really had Douglas's book and was first reported, she may have decided to copy a murder she had read about. My opinion may and probably is all bunk, but the note was not really a ransom note it was a false lead planted by someone. It had strangely familiar references that I do not believe John would have allowed if he was involved. Sounds like it was written by a naive but intelligent woman wanting to sound like a tough man perhaps even a little drunk.

 

[aRnd2it]

Doesn't it strike you as odd that Patsy's handwriting was DISGUISED yet hundreds of posters here are so clever or perceptive that they can SEE THROUGH this disguise and reach the conclusion that they are 100% certain Patsy wrote the RN?

Nope, doesn't strike me one bit as being odd. A trained monkey could pick out the consistencies between Patsy's exemplars and the ransom note. Therefore the conclusion is very simple: The chances that a stranger could break into a person's house, murder a child, and have their writing match so many of the mother's examplars are ZERO - ZIP - NADDA...

The reality is that the handwriting was WAY too consistent to be credibly viewed as disguised writing,

Consistant according to whom, You? I can point out MANY inconsistancies between letters, so I wonder what note you're looking at....
And besides that, you give any normal person 6-hours and some practice paper and you'll be surprised how consistant they can make some fake handwriting. It wasn't like Patsy was in a rush to write the ransom note.

 

[mihaff]

Nope, doesn't strike me one bit as being odd. A trained monkey could pick out the consistencies between Patsy's exemplars and the ransom note. Therefore the conclusion is very simple: The chances that a stranger could break into a person's house, murder a child, and have their writing match so many of the mother's examplars are ZERO - ZIP - NADDA...


Consistant according to whom, You? I can point out MANY inconsistancies between letters, so I wonder what note you're looking at....
And besides that, you give any normal person 6-hours and some practice paper and you'll be surprised how consistant they can make some fake handwriting. It wasn't like Patsy was in a rush to write the ransom note.

absolutely. I can't understand how others cannot see this.