Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[Winterbells]

Hmmmm my hinkyometer is positively throbbing..........absolutely horrific what has happened to poor Caroline, RIP beautiful lady - I hope justice is swift for you . JMOO

From the minute I saw a pic of the husband speaking to reporters (I'm assuming this is the case - he has a mic shoved in front of his face) my spidey senses started to twitch.
Edited to say, I've now seen the footage of husband talking to reporters. Still feeling suspicious.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If the husband was involved, if I was him I would be worried that one of the "gang" might talk.

If he wasn't involved I'm very sorry for his loss.

 

[Cryptic]

was the dog killed because he / she would be able to recognise the attackers?

Speaking of the dog, I wonder whose dog it truly was?

The faux zen aside and going to the point, Did the husband affirm the purchase of the dog? Was the dog and related care ever an issue between the couple?

That aside, the husband's relating of the murder seems to be:

- I was sleeping down stairs and my wife and baby were upstairs.
- A gang of foreign criminals breaks the security camera, kills the dog, then bursts into our home.
- I was able to tell that one stood guard outside (how?)

- They demand to know "where the money is"- seeming to imply they knew a large sum of money was in the home (how?).
- I immediately give them the money. Despite the easy and lucrative gains, the gang does not leave.

- I am tied up, but not harmed. Meanwhile, my wife is attacked upstairs and tortured for more money for an hour. (why would the gang interrogate the wife under torture, but not harm the husband despite him being tied up and also maintaining that there was no more money? Why would the gang think there was more money?).
-At some point, they point a pistol at the baby's head while demanding more money (how did he know they did that?). My wife is eventually murdered.

- The gang flees. Fortunately, I am not harmed and able to wiggle free from the ropes and call the police.

 

[Cryptic]

Edited to say, I've now seen the footage of husband talking to reporters. Still feeling suspicious.

Though the articles are not detailed, to me the foreign gang's purely "Give us more money!!" demands seem stilted to me. The house was not apparently ransacked. Likewise, no appparent obscene comments on the wife's attractiveness, threats of sexual assault etc.

No yelling at the baby to stop crying. No shouts as to why they think there is more money. The gang then leaves the husband unharmed and flees into the night.

The Fatal Vision murders also involved seemingly stilted conversation. Hippies in floppy hats burst into the home. A family was related to have been murdered as the hippies chant: "Acid is groovy- kill the pigs!".

No scathing comments about Vietnam and the husband's military profession. Nor does the group make even brief justification for the murders to the husband. The husband escapes with superficial wounds and the hippies flee into the night.

Likewise, the husbands description of the assailants in Fatal Vision was vague and lacked detail: "The hippies were wearing floppy hats (standard stereotypical hippie gear)." In the relating of this murder, the description of the assailants is apparently largely limited to: "One was tall."

 

[dormouse]

Speaking of the dog, I wonder whose dog it truly was?

The faux zen aside and going to the point, Did the husband affirm the purchase of the dog? Was the dog and related care ever an issue between the couple?

That aside, the husband's relating of the murder seems to be:

- I was sleeping down stairs and my wife and baby were upstairs.
- A gang of foreign criminals breaks the security camera, kills the dog, then bursts into our home.
- I was able to tell that one stood guard outside (how?)

- They demand to know "where the money is"- seeming to imply they knew a large sum of money was in the home (how?).
- I immediately give them the money. Despite the easy and lucrative gains, the gang does not leave.

- I am tied up, but not harmed. Meanwhile, my wife is attacked upstairs and tortured for more money for an hour. (why would the gang interrogate the wife under torture, but not harm the husband despite him being tied up and also maintaining that there was no more money? Why would the gang think there was more money?).
-At some point, they point a pistol at the baby's head while demanding more money (how did he know they did that?). My wife is eventually murdered.

- The gang flees. Fortunately, I am not harmed and able to wiggle free from the ropes and call the police.

It makes no sense. Surely a gang this violent wouldn’t leave the husband alive after what he’d seen - let alone unharmed.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Greek media is reporting that there may be a lead via CCTV footage:

Γλυκά Νερά: Νέα στοιχεία-σοκ για το άγριο έγκλημα - Η κατάθεση του συζύγου | Ειδήσεις - νέα - Το Βήμα Online

Σύμφωνα με όσα μεταδίδονται οι αρχές έχουν στα χέρια τους βίντεο με έναν ύποπτο άνδρα, ο οποίος στις 05:30 τα ξημερώματα της Τρίτης βρίσκεται έξω από το σπίτι της οικογένειας της 20χρονης.

According to what's been broadcast/communicated, the authorities have in their hands a video of a suspicious man, who at 5:30 in the morning on Tuesday was outside the home of the family (of the 20 year old victim).

(my translation only)

 

[Patrick Jane]

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Αναζητούν το «αποτύπωμα» των δραστών σε ληστεία στο Χαλάνδρι | Η ΚΑΘΗΜΕΡΙΝΗ

Πρόκειται για τρία άτομα που μπήκαν στο εσωτερικό της μεζονέτας έχοντας καλύψει τα πρόσωπά τους με full face, ενώ είναι πιθανό ένας ακόμη συνεργός τους, σε ρόλο τσιλιαδόρου, να τους περίμενε έξω από το σπίτι.

It (this case) is about/concerns three people who entered the interior of the maisonette having covered their faces with full face masks, although it's probable that one of their accomplices, in the role of lookout, waited for them outside of the house.

(my translation only)

In my reading of this excerpt from the article, it implies that the lookout was unmasked. When taken together with the previous article I posted, which talks about them enlarging the CCTV image, I think it's likely that the police have an unmasked image of the lookout. (my opinion only)

 

[Coach]

Is there any evidence at all that there even was an actual gang?

 

[meanmaryjean]

The needle of my hinky meter is buried.
#SomethingAintRight

 

[Mrs Marple]

Is there any evidence at all that there even was an actual gang?

The post above yours refers to cctv images of the gang.

 

[Oriana]

What a terrible crime.

Why kill her though when they had what they wanted?

Just what I'm thinking, highly unusual, extremely violent considering the husband told the robbers where the money was, you'd think they'd take that and leave. How long did it take to torture and eventually murder her, with her screaming all along presumably. Something off. Tragic.

 

[Kaykedi]

I wonder if one of the renovation contractors/workers knew of the cash? And if so, how?

Excellent questions

 

[Winterbells]

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Αναζητούν το «αποτύπωμα» των δραστών σε ληστεία στο Χαλάνδρι | Η ΚΑΘΗΜΕΡΙΝΗ

Πρόκειται για τρία άτομα που μπήκαν στο εσωτερικό της μεζονέτας έχοντας καλύψει τα πρόσωπά τους με full face, ενώ είναι πιθανό ένας ακόμη συνεργός τους, σε ρόλο τσιλιαδόρου, να τους περίμενε έξω από το σπίτι.

It (this case) is about/concerns three people who entered the interior of the maisonette having covered their faces with full face masks, although it's probable that one of their accomplices, in the role of lookout, waited for them outside of the house.

(my translation only)

In my reading of this excerpt from the article, it implies that the lookout was unmasked. When taken together with the previous article I posted, which talks about them enlarging the CCTV image, I think it's likely that the police have an unmasked image of the lookout. (my opinion only)

Odd that the lookout doesn't mind having his face on view.
I mean, it's not like people aren't wearing face coverings anyway these days.
What better time, really, to be the masked lookout.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Odd that the lookout doesn't mind having his face on view.
I mean, it's not like people aren't wearing face coverings anyway these days.
What better time, really, to be the masked lookout.

Remember it was 5:30 AM, so there was no one out and about walking around. And I don't think he realized that he'd be on CCTV. If the CCTV image was from outside of the house as has been reported, perhaps the image was from a neighbor's camera.

 

[Wowno17]

I too think this is really strange. I initially thought hmmm husband is in on it. Why the wife and not him?

I think the only other possible explanation is simple. She was female. He is Male.
She was raped, in the process they were holding her mouth to stifle the scream, and she suffocated as reporting is stating.

That or the husband is involved. I hope he isn't for the babies sake.

MOO

MOO

 

[Satchie]

This case reminds me of cases I have heard about in Mexico or similar places, rather than in prosperous northern countries.

With regards to the husband, hinky meters aside, I believe the TOS are that WS is victim friendly and we are not to accuse or bash victims, or family of victims, unless there is evidence.

 

[Kaykedi]

Odd that the lookout doesn't mind having his face on view.
I mean, it's not like people aren't wearing face coverings anyway these days.
What better time, really, to be the masked lookout.

Exactly!

 

[Cryptic]

With regards to the husband, hinky meters aside, I believe the TOS are that WS is victim friendly and we are not to accuse or bash victims, or family of victims, unless there is evidence.

You are right about the victim friendly aspect of the forum. In fairness to the posters, however, the primary victim of the crime is the murdered woman. The husband is a secondary victim.

Likewise, I don't think anybody has accused the husband of the crime, nor has anyone criticized his actions. Rather, several unusual circumstances regarding the crime as re-told by husband have been pointed out.

 

[Cryptic]

I too think this is really strange. I initially thought hmmm husband is in on it. Why the wife and not him?

I think the only other possible explanation is simple. She was female. He is Male.
She was raped, in the process they were holding her mouth to stifle the scream, and she suffocated as reporting is stating.

I believe the presence of thee man in question is being viewed as suspiscious, but he has not been confirmed as being the actual look out.

As for possible explanations, I think there are many possible explanations. Some of the possible explanations may need to wait for more police statements.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Just to clarify some speculation I've seen in this thread, I haven't seen in the Greek media any mention of rape or sexual assault.

edited to add: of course it's still early in the investigation. I'm just pointing out that there's no evidence or reporting on this right now.