Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[Patrick Jane]

Γλυκά Νερά: Ερωτήματα για τη δολοφονία της 20χρονης Καρολάιν – Πού στρέφονται οι έρευνες - ΤΑ ΝΕΑ

 

[Patrick Jane]

Daily Mail today:

Greek police are still investigating the murder of Briton Caroline Crouch, 20, who was strangled to death on May 11 at her family home near Athens

Mr Anagnostopoulos will also be interviewed by a psychologist to try and 'illuminate' some 'elusive' spots in the investigation, such as who might have known about a large amount of cash being stored at the family home.

According to previous statements that Mr Anagnostopoulos gave to police, he was tied up by three robbers who broke into his home near Athens in the early hours, who demanded £10,000 in cash he was hiding in a Monopoly box.

The robbers allegedly threatened to harm the couple's 11-month-old daughter and then strangled Caroline to death when she began screaming.

Caroline Crouch murder: Husband quizzed for second time by Greek police | Daily Mail Online

In general I'd side with the Greek sources over the Daily Mail. Translation from Greek to English is not easy and there are many mistranslations.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I think the reason the crime reporting in Greece is being extremely cautious and using code words like "ανατροπές" (meaning "overturnings" or "refutations" or "plot twists") is because of the strict libel laws in Greece.

Defamation Laws In Greece - RM Warner Law | Defamation Law, Internet Law, Business Law

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

In general I'd side with the Greek sources over the Daily Mail. Translation from Greek to English is not easy and there are many mistranslations.

It is not just Daily Mail. ALL reports here say strangled. A few examples:

Greece offers €300,000 reward for killers who strangled British-born student in front of baby

Caroline Crouch: Husband of Brit murdered in front of daughter in Greece pays tribute and says they will be 'together forever'

Greek police say ‘everything still open’ in hunt for Caroline Crouch’s killer

('strangled with a pair of trousers')

Man arrested after Brit mum murdered in front of baby during burglary pictured

British mother’s husband begged burglars to stop before they strangled her in front of her daughter in Greece | News | The Times

Athens murder: Police probe if robbers may have killed Caroline Crouch in €100k search

 

[Patrick Jane]

It is not just Daily Mail. ALL reports here say strangled. A few examples:

Greece offers €300,000 reward for killers who strangled British-born student in front of baby

Caroline Crouch: Husband of Brit murdered in front of daughter in Greece pays tribute and says they will be 'together forever'

Greek police say ‘everything still open’ in hunt for Caroline Crouch’s killer

('strangled with a pair of trousers')

Man arrested after Brit mum murdered in front of baby during burglary pictured

British mother’s husband begged burglars to stop before they strangled her in front of her daughter in Greece | News | The Times

Athens murder: Police probe if robbers may have killed Caroline Crouch in €100k search

The Greek language has a word for everything. Greek has a word for strangulation (στραγγαλισμός). Show me a Greek source that used this word as a cause of death.
All the English sources you cited could be using the same original mistranslation as their source. So that's not really indicative of anything in my opinion.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

The Greek language has a word for everything. Greek has a word for strangulation (σταγγαλισμός). Show me a Greek source that used this word as a cause of death.
All the English sources you cited could be using the same original mistranslation as their source. So that's not really indicative of anything in my opinion.

Here is a Greek reporter, writing in English, but surely he would know the difference?

She was found dead next to the baby. Caroline was beaten and strangled to death by the burglars

Arrest Warrant for Suspect in Caroline Crouch Murder in Athens

 

[Patrick Jane]

Here is a Greek reporter, writing in English, but surely he would know the difference?

She was found dead next to the baby. Caroline was beaten and strangled to death by the burglars

Arrest Warrant for Suspect in Caroline Crouch Murder in Athens

Would he, though? Is he relying on other translations and English-language sources?

I've already quoted in this thread the translation of the exact words from the medical examiner. I think that's more reliable than the sources that you've cited.

 

[Lola68]

Γλυκά Νερά: Ερωτήματα για τη δολοφονία της 20χρονης Καρολάιν – Πού στρέφονται οι έρευνες - ΤΑ ΝΕΑ

Wow I'm surprised by some of the reporting here and what it's insinuating:

"Police, in collaboration with the psychologist, are trying to find out if something was bothering the 20-year-old woman and if this could play a role in the authorities' investigations." (Is this the same psychologist who is speaking to B??)

"Initially, that no camera recorded the perpetrators neither coming nor going. Next, the fact that no hairs or DNA of the perpetrators were found at the crime scene. Third, is how the 32-year-old pilot managed and was solved, in order to notify the Police.
However, the forensic examination did not show any foreign DNA on Caroline."

"Mr. Balaskas stressed that the Police is trying to understand why there are so many difficulties in collecting DNA and evidence. ...'Research always raises serious questions and we must solve them. When there is nothing in what we are looking for, a question arises. In this case, many unanswered questions arose'... 'Investigations are focused everywhere. There are always other suspects and the usual suspects but also the suspects, who do not look suspicious'."

 

[Polly Graf]

Caroline was found on the bed right?

So where exactly was the baby for over an hour? It seems we’re led to believe that she was just holding the babe, therefore untied, while her husband is passed out and she’s interrogated for 30-40 minutes before finally starting to scream……but even if that were the case, I don’t see any of the robbers holding the babe for 8 minutes and it can’t possibly have balanced on the side of the bed while this suffocation happened, so how did it get on the bed again to be supposedly trying to wake her when the police arrived?

The timeline just doesn’t work for me, I can’t imagine these guys would ask politely more than 2 or 3 times before starting to really hurt somebody and apart from obviously her death by suffocation I haven’t heard anything about other bad injuries to either of them.

I’m wondering if it’s more likely they burst in, one of them went straight for the dog while the other 2 went to the bedroom, got B under control by pointing the gun at him then made him take the baby while they fought Caroline and got her under control also. So perhaps he wasn’t tied up until the end and was never unconscious, it’s possible even that he’s completely innocent but changed the version of events through feeling guilty he couldn’t do more to save her!

The alternative I suppose is that he DID know these guys, they were there because he’d really pissed them off somehow and they stayed so long having some kind of heated negotiations, Caroline either killed by accident or because of what she had just seen and heard……

That was my thinking on the therapist, maybe Caroline had mentioned sometime about some shady people B knew or something he was previously involved with.

JMOO

 

[dotr]

It reminds me of a Cyprus serial killer Nikos Metaxax (military man) who romanced Filipino women working in Cyprus. Met them via dating site, promised marriage and then murdered them. It was a scandal in Cyprus as police didn't investigate missing Filipino women. The bodies of some victims were discovered by chance by some tourist taking pics of an abandoned mine. And then all hell broke loose! I read that Chief of Police was dismissed, and even Minister of Justice (I think).
It made people realize how poorly these women were treated.

Weird and hideous.
Ws thread..
Cyprus serial killer

 

[Dotta]

Weird and hideous.
Ws thread..
Cyprus serial killer

I learnt about him by pure chance while contemplating my holidays in Cyprus and browsing info on the Net about this country. As you might guess my holiday destination changed.

 

[caylee17799]

Έγκλημα-Γλυκά Νερά:«Ήθελαν να την σκοτώσουν»-Αποδίδει καρπούς η επικήρυξη των δολοφόνων της Καρολάιν; | ΣΚΑΪ
It says that B was found on the floor tied right next to the bed, while Caroline was found face down on the bed, with her 11 month old baby right next to her (also on the bed). So, it seems like through the entire ordeal, the baby stayed on the bed, provided that no one moved her around.
The article also states that it would be quite impossible to have killed her accidentally, and that whoever did it, meant to do so.

 

[dotr]

Caroline Crouch murder: Police quiz couple's psychologist - Around World journal
''Police probing the murder of a British mother in Greece have questioned a psychologist who was treating her and her husband before the killing.

Officers said the therapist provided ‘crucial’ evidence, as they continue to hunt for the killer of 20-year-old Caroline Crouch, who was strangled to death in front of her 11-month-old daughter at her home near Athens on May 11.

Police say the psychologist was treating Caroline for post-natal depression, and was separately providing treatment to husband Charalambos ‘Babis’ Anagnostopoulos, 33, for an unknown condition.''

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

This whole story is as confusing as hell.

One other thing, if as husband says he was bound so tightly he was barely able to breath even when he came round from losing consciousness, would there not have been visible marks on him? Police would have release pictures of injuries if there were, no?

 

[tayaway]

Do we know yet if any of the neighbors heard Caroline's screams? We know that at least one neighbor heard their dog's barking.

SBM

One other thing, if as husband says he was bound so tightly he was barely able to breath even when he came round from losing consciousness, would there not have been visible marks on him?

This is one of the first things that stuck out for many of us when we started looking at this case. The English media kept referring to 'duct tape' so we wondered why he had no redness etc... on his skin. Yup, lots of questions.

 

[Patrick Jane]

This whole story is as confusing as hell.

One other thing, if as husband says he was bound so tightly he was barely able to breath even when he came round from losing consciousness, would there not have been visible marks on him? Police would have release pictures of injuries if there were, no?

Good question. Police and crime reporters are asking the same question. I was just about to post this and I saw your question, so I'm including it in this post.

same crime reporter from yesterday and the day before yesterday, reiterates that no DNA of the alleged perps was found, and asks some more questions

including why weren't there marks and skin trauma/damage on the husband if his mouth was covered with packaging tape for an hour or more (1.5 hrs)? and suggests there are problems in the duration and timeline of events. He posits, in the husband's defense, that maybe the husband doesn't remember things (in regard to the timeline) correctly and the period he was covered and bound was much shorter.

 

[caylee17799]

Good question. Police and crime reporters are asking the same question. I was just about to post this and I saw your question, so I'm including it in this post.

same crime reporter from yesterday and the day before yesterday, reiterates that no DNA of the alleged perps was found, and asks some more questions

including why weren't there marks and skin trauma/damage on the husband if he his mouth was covered with packaging tape for an hour or more? and suggests there are problems in the duration and timeline of events. He posits, in the husband's defense, that maybe the husband doesn't remember things (in regard to the timeline) correctly and the period he was covered and bound was much shorter.

That crime reporter must be a member here.... he's asking all the right questions (although I know it's not just him... but the police as well)

 

[Skigh]

Caroline Crouch murder: Police quiz couple's psychologist | Daily Mail Online

 

[dotr]

That crime reporter must be a member here.... he's asking all the right questions (although I know it's not just him... but the police as well)

Can imagine LE are now asking the husband to recount the evening's events, but out of sequence- it is harder to stick to an established story line that way, imo, speculation.

 

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